Welding a frame with a magneto installed

[kendall666]

I tried to search for an answer and didn't have much luck. If this has been discussed before I apologize.

The side stand tab on my Triumph frame has started to crack and after doing some research I've learned that this has been an issue with their earlier side stand tabs for others as well.

I plan on grinding the crack to where I can tack a weld and slowly bend it back to where it functions properly and doesn't lean to the point of where it could break and fail. My question is since I am running a magneto as my ignition am I able to weld the tab with the mag still installed or am I risking frying my condenser and points? I am planing on disconnecting my spark plug wires and the stator wires that go to my tympanium/regulator rectifier. I will be MIG welding also if that helps at all.

Forgot to mention, yes I will be removing the gas tank,

Any information as always is greatly apprecaited

Kendall

[farmall]

Magneto voltages are far, far higher than low voltage welding current. There is no path for the welding current through the mag.

I don't disconnect anything when welding my vehicles (including trucks with EFI) unless I need to lay a motorcycle on its side. Electricity isn't magic.

If you support your bike off a rafter or hoist using a strap it can be leaned over without touching the ground.

I'd cut off the tab, clean both welding surfaces with a flap disc (I stopped buying rock-style wheels long ago) then tack one end of the tab, align it, tack the other end, check it then finish weld. If stand bolt hole is wallowed I'd fab a replacement tab.

[kendall666]

Thanks for the reply Farmall. I started cleaning it a bit today just to try and get a look at the crack, once I have some more time I’ll most likely cut it off and clean it like you said. Definitely seems like the best way to make sure I get good penetration and a clean weld. I have a hoist in my garage and actually was thinking of using that like you said to get a bit more clearance instead of trying to weld on the ground or on my lift.

I appreciate the advice on welding with the mag still installed as well.

I’ll post updates as I go. Thanks again!

Kendall

[Luky]

There are some considerations before welding on a vehicle.
Fumes in the vicinity of the battery.
Also if your welding ground is placed on dirty or painted metal A current will find another path.
This means the next best ground like a brake cable for instance.
Usually the brake cable will light up cherry red and start smoking. Make sure your ground is very clean and solid.

As far as the actual weldment.
Try not to weld transversely around the frame Try to make a weld the same direction as the tubing.
And place the ground so that you are welding towards the ground cable attachment.

[kendall666]

Thanks Luky, I will take that into consideration for sure! I plan on grinding and cleaning the frame around the tab very well so should have a good spot to ground to. Also no battery, just the mag.

Kendall

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

I have a few $0.02 to add having had a lot of Brit-iron. (Worth half of what you paid for my advice).

First of all, and this is ALL choppers, is getting the right angle of the dangle is more difficult than it would appear unless you have done a few of them. Stock type frames or custom. The stock bikes are fairly consistent and only had a few variations from the 1940s to 1983, (Basically 3 different kick stands). But once you go custom, ride height and getting the right lean of the bike
(Dont go for some extreme "Gangsta lean" like some people on this forum are big on) but getting the stand to fold up around custom exhaust and under the primary when riding.

(nothing more embarrassing than have your scoot keel over in front of God & everybody. Even worse is my buddy who stopped at the grocery store and over the announcement system "Would the owner of the Triumph chopper please report to the parking lot, your motorcycle fell on another customers car." He had the extreme walk of shame. Dont be that guy).

These side stand tabs break off, a LOT. I made some several times and sold them in my shop, good sellers at shows & swaps, I had a print and had a metal fab make me 30 at a time back in the day., Rabers parts mart and some other dealers sell them too. Usually around $20-35 for a ready to weld on steel tab. Rabers is gone now, but Several online dealers sell them.

CHECK your FRAME carefully! If its not an aftermarket frame important warning!!!! BRASS! Laddie BRASS! (Wont weld worth a shit unless you address that issue!)

So, Preunit and unit frames the frame is made up of mild steel DOM tubing, and the important features IE: Neck, Swing arm bracket, center stand bracket, and side stand brackets are a CASTING! Not just plain steel but are a casting and they are brazed in place. At the factory its called "Hearth brazing" (Theres some youtube videos on how these frames are made, worth watching!) So the tubing is heated and dipped in flux and liquid brass and the cast iron parts are red hot in a oven and on a brick fab fixture they jam the parts together and let them cool on a jig on these bricks.

# Its glorious to watch! Red hot metal, Flames and belching clouds of smoke, Crank up the tunes and its visual extreme art#

So to repair a tab, you gotta remove ALL the brazing residue, even if its hidden, once you start welding that shits gonna bubble up and contaminate your welds. If its a half tab, better to remove it all and start with a fresh weld on tab. I see a lot of people who arent aware of this stuff, Even experienced welders and create an even bigger problem. Now,, on some customs it *MIGHT* benefit you to relocate the side stand anyway. My 86 Evo Sporty had the kickstand in one spot and later models they moved it and WAY easier to operate than the early style. You CAN Braze it too.. but not easy to do, practice multiple times before you try the brazing method.

Some Brit-Iron didnt have a side stand. They used a center stand or a wheel stand (The fender bracket unscrews with a wing nut and you roll the bike onto the wheel stand) Some sold as an accy a bolt on side stand. Bolt on side stands are a whole different surprisingly complex topic.

I have worked on and built some choppers and some people think they are just like an old Harley or Indian, despite advice NOT to, some lean them WAY over, and then proceed to climb on the bike with one knee and then jump on the kicker like an overgrown orangutan ape while the only thing holding it up is a pencilly little side stand and a cast iron bracket, little surprise they break. *Its NOT a GEEZER Glide!

Triumph!: Making ordinary people into mechanics since 1902.

[kendall666]

Good information Doug thanks! Good thing I won’t be getting much riding in as it’s winter. Looks like I have my work cut out for me!

[TriNortchopz]

Triumph!: Making ordinary people into mechanics since 1902.

Hermit's Triumph 650 Tech Articles
Field Guide to the 1969 Triumph Bonneville T120R

http://www.hermit.cc/tmc/technote/index.htm

[hillcat]

There are some considerations before welding on a vehicle.
Fumes in the vicinity of the battery.
Also if your welding ground is placed on dirty or painted metal A current will find another path.
This means the next best ground like a brake cable for instance.
Usually the brake cable will light up cherry red and start smoking. Make sure your ground is very clean and solid.

As far as the actual weldment.
Try not to weld transversely around the frame Try to make a weld the same direction as the tubing.
And place the ground so that you are welding towards the ground cable attachment.

Luky, is that now a younger picture of you in your avatar?

[Tattooo]

Luky, is that now a younger picture of you in your avatar?

That's my guess..... Or he has found the fountain of youth.....

[farmall]

It's a chopper so no need to use a weak Triumph side stand unless you want to. They were never expected to be as strong as Harley parts. Britbikes are built to be light, not tough. Weld-on aftermarket stand kits exist with more surface area than a flat tab.

I'm relocating the stand on an 87 Sporty frame (when I get around to it) in the manner DTIA describes so I can install a 5-speed engine.
Example improved tab and stand on a Sporty (scroll down).

https://www.baggersmag.com/sportster-enginetransmission-swap-hrbw-tech-dr-frankenstein-i-presume?image=22#page-22

[kendall666]

To me that seems like the best option and the right way to fix it. I'd rather fix it the right way once than half ass it and have to do it all over again. I'll pull the motor so I can get good angles on all my welds and it will for sure help with grinding and cleaning the original mounting tab area.

Again thank you all for your input!

[Luky]

Thanks Luky, I will take that into consideration for sure! I plan on grinding and cleaning the frame around the tab very well so should have a good spot to ground to. Also no battery, just the mag.

Kendall

You are welcome!

[Luky]

Luky, is that now a younger picture of you in your avatar?

Yes, Hillcat that was 10 years ago.

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

It's a chopper so no need to use a weak Triumph side stand unless you want to. They were never expected to be as strong as Harley parts. Britbikes are built to be light, not tough. Weld-on aftermarket stand kits exist with more surface area than a flat tab.

I'm relocating the stand on an 87 Sporty frame (when I get around to it) in the manner DTIA describes so I can install a 5-speed engine.
Example improved tab and stand on a Sporty (scroll down).

https://www.baggersmag.com/sportster...age=22#page-22

great link to that article, it covers a lot of useful tech in there, Both fab and HD Sporty/Buell specific.

I have used HD type aftermarket side stands on Brit-iron chops and generally had to shorten and rebend them (Heated with a torch) Some side stands sag with age as well (Heated with a torch and rebent them) Not unusual as well to have wallered out holes and the stand is sloppy on its bracket.
Some install a bushing, but a neat trick is this teflon like material called Turcite and it can handle tremendous loads, a bushing made of that will leave your side stand slick as a whistle for years with no slop.
I forgot about the ball bearing and spring on factory HD side stands, thanks for that article its actually a neat feature worth considering.