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  1. #1
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    Default Electronic ignition school.

    So, there were a couple of threads on points and stuff and electronic ignitions were mentioned, but not enough information was said for me to get a good handle on the set ups. So, I thought a seperate thread on them might help people like me struggling with which set up to get.

    Here we go....

    1. what is dual fire versus single fire?
    2. can I use my stock coil with either set up?
    3. do you have to change the mechanical weights for the advance?
    4. what is the set up like to install?
    5. do's and don'ts- Like leaving your key on?
    6. Highly subjective- what is the best brand out there

    Thanks for info in advance!

  2. #2
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    love my dyna s. My kit came with a coil. you keep the advance weights, or install them in my case. Hands down better than the crane hi 4. and it kicks super easy.

  3. #3

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    Sorry above is wrong,single fire is a separate spark in each cylinder where as dual fire fires both plugs at the same time making one spark "wasted " ie not on the compression stroke.I am going to try the vulcan electronic ign on my new bike as you can run it single or dual fire and it use's the bike advance unit.

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    Yes, dual is both sparks. Thanks for the catch.

    The lesson here is not to type from your phone while talking to someone, and not proofread.
    I would suggest that if you are going to go with an electronic, don't waste time with a mechanical advance.
    As for complexity, this shouldn't even take an hour to install. One hangup might be the wires through the cover. The hole can be snug,. Your choice is either wrestle with it, lube it, or just drill the cover a touch wider.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigxrdoug View Post
    Sorry above is wrong,single fire is a separate spark in each cylinder where as dual fire fires both plugs at the same time making one spark "wasted " ie not on the compression stroke.I am going to try the vulcan electronic ign on my new bike as you can run it single or dual fire and it use's the bike advance unit.

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    Each E Ign man has suggested coils. 1.5-2.5 for the strip and 2.5-4 ohms for the street. Install isnt hard. change of coil mounting might be necessary. Stock verse the dyna coils. And Always carry points and a points coil on the road. Cause when your E ign takes a shit there is no road side fix.
    I also don't see the point in replacing your ignition and keeping your mechanical advance.
    If you going to keep the fly weights why not just learn to perfect your points system.

    Some are nice because you can plug and tune your ignition to retard the timing on the rear cylinder with single fire to make sure that you can tune it in perfect to the timing so that you don't end up going against the rotation of the crank making your motor work easier.

    also lots of coils just like points accel crane dyna ect ect

  6. #6
    ARBY
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    The dual fire ignition is a simple points replacement ignition. You can use it with a 5 ohm coil. Been running my Dyna S for a lot of years without incident. Only problem came when I was using 3 ohm coils and kept burning them out.

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    feel more confused now than before i came in there. I picked up a cone shovel recently and trying to figure out what I need to make it run.

    I don't have two plugs in each cylinder
    picked up a Dynatec 2000 but it was just the module

    I'm still waiting for my frame and have lots of time just trying to sort out loose ends of this build.

    can't say enough about reading, reading, reading on the forum. lots of information here

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    Subscribed. i need to learn a few things too. i got a 77 XLH non kick and i wouldnt mind making it electronic. i am mechanically inclined but i just want to update it a little.

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    Ok, here we go.
    Stock Harley Points Ignition
    A set of points is bumped open twice a camshaft revolution sending a signal to the coil each time.
    The coil fires each time this signal hits it.
    It's a dual tower coil sending a spark to both cylinders each time it fires.
    a centrifugally actuated weight set advances this signal from 1000-2000 rpm.
    This system "wastes" every other spark for a given cylinder.

    Stock Harley-cone Electronic Ignition
    A cup with two cutouts and a stationary "hall" type pickup send two signals per cam revolution to a remote ignition unit that figures out the necessary advance electronically and sends the signals to a dual tower coil as well. Still a wasted spark.
    Note: A VOES switch and tip sensor are also part of this system.

    The Dyna S and SI
    These systems simply replace the points with either one or two hall type pickups and still rely on the points style mechanical advance.
    One pickup=dual fire or "wasted" spark. Two pickups=Single Fire
    Note: The single fire requires two single tower coils or a siamesed "Single Fire" coil

    Most Aftermarket Electronic Ignitions
    Use the stock cup off the cam and hall type sensors along with an ignition unit to send signals to the coil(s).
    Note: ignition units are usually self contained, that is on the "points" plate in the cone cover, without a remote box for the electronics. Most recommend a VOES as well.

  10. #10
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    1
    Single fire uses two independent coils (in the same housing or not) to fire the plugs in each cylinder independently only for each cylinders power stroke.
    This is obviously ideal
    Stock/Dual/Wasted fire/spark uses two coils in the same housing (dual tower) to spark both plugs at the same time for the power stroke of one cylinder and the exhaust (they claim) stroke of the other cylinder at the same time.
    This causes unspent gasses to burn in the exhaust. And we all know that with high overlap cams to kickback/burn/sneeze out the intake. this makes it harder to kickstart, pops off intake seals,
    2
    Maybe
    Coil choice for the street or the strip are all affected by exactly what your running and what your looking for(don't forget about spark plug wires!)
    3
    maybe
    4
    How dumb/smart are you?
    5
    Don't cross the streams
    6
    None of them has a USB yet.

  11. #11
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    I posted this prior as an "which coil to buy" statment info.

    hope it helps

    Quote Originally Posted by Misfitcj View Post
    shovel link

    info above for lazy below

    from Dynatek Performance

    The DSK6-1 Dyna S and coil system includes a DC7-1 high energy coil
    The DSK6-2 Dyna S and coil system is designed for single-fire applications; includes two DC10-1 Dyna coils

    Coil information


    Wires must be

    electronic advance ignitions or other sensitive electronic equipment, use DYNA suppression wires with a high grade graphite core for best performance and electrical noise suppression.


    auto advance unit
    \


    so plugs, dyna s (single or dual), auto advance unit, and coil possibly (assuming yours works check diagram above)

    ltr Pat

    I am redoing mine as you read this

    single fire wild rider (jireh cycles) 74.00
    Coils 5 ohm dyna (ebay) 115.00 (2 coils for me)
    wires accel via autozone. 40.00
    new plugs via auto zone. 10.00 ?
    1. what is dual fire versus single fire?
    http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_singlefire.shtml

    A dual-fire system needs only one pickup signal to the module, one signal from the module to the coil, and one coil, albeit with two outputs. A single-fire system, by comparison, needs either two separate pickups or extra intelligence in the module (more on that later), and two outputs from the module to two coils.



    2. can I use my stock coil with either set up?

    Depends see above (usually no)
    3. do you have to change the mechanical weights for the advance?
    Not always depends on your tuning needs.

    The Dyna ignition is a solid state ignition but uses a mechanical advance. The advance weights wear in several areas. The pins can bend, the pivot holes in the weights themselves can elongate, the springs get weak, etc.

    The Dyna ignition you have has either 1 or 2 pickups on it. If it has 1 pickup, it is a Dual Fire ignition system and the coil will have 2 terminals. If it has 2 pickups, it is a single fire ignition and probably has 2 coils or a coil with 3 terminals.

    If you plan to keep the Dyna ignition, get a good set of stainless advance weights.

    IMO, get rid of the Dyna ignition and get something that has an electronic advance. The Dyna "S" ignition has many inherent design flaws and is old technology as far as electronic ignitions go.

    If you go that route...
    First figure out if it is single or dual fire.
    Then I would recommend getting a Crane HI-4 as a replacement.
    The Crane HI-4 is available in single or dual fire but get the right one for your coil arrangement unless you want to switch to single fire, assuming you have dual. If that is the case, Crane makes a complete single fire kit.


    4. what is the set up like to install?

    Very easy
    Instructions for DYNA S

    5. do's and don'ts- Like leaving your key on?

    Don't do it if your not running the bike.........
    6. Highly subjective- what is the best brand out there

    I like the dynatek verision or wild rider from jerieh cycles ( both have warrenty for relpacement)

  12. #12
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    I'm running a dyna s on my shovel and ran a dyna s on my 70' cb750 SOHC too. Shovel has had no problems aside from being a bitch to start dead cold unless I advance it real far. My cb on the other hand burned 3 of these units up in one summer. Good customer service? sure, warrantied part? sort of. I had to shell out $75.00 and return my old unit each time. I ran 3 ohm coils and installed it via dyna's instructions. Ran good for a bit and then would loose a leg on the dyna s.

    I never was sure of what actually fixed the problem, I did however run a ground from the dyna s plate at the mount to the frame. After the final unit it was fine. Not sure if the ground solved it or if the others were all bad.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by easyspeed View Post
    I'm running a dyna s on my shovel and ran a dyna s on my 70' cb750 SOHC too. Shovel has had no problems aside from being a bitch to start dead cold unless I advance it real far. My cb on the other hand burned 3 of these units up in one summer. Good customer service? sure, warrantied part? sort of. I had to shell out $75.00 and return my old unit each time. I ran 3 ohm coils and installed it via dyna's instructions. Ran good for a bit and then would loose a leg on the dyna s.

    I never was sure of what actually fixed the problem, I did however run a ground from the dyna s plate at the mount to the frame. After the final unit it was fine. Not sure if the ground solved it or if the others were all bad.
    Probably. I got one last Christmas. Put it in an nothing happened. Sent it back and called bitching. Had great customer service. Talked for an hour or so and came up with I might have had a Shitty ground, and that will fry a dyna instantly. Got a new one and haven't had any problems.
    Last edited by vnygra; 12-26-2012 at 5:08 PM.

  14. #14

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    Ging through same ignition hassle. My ride is a custom 1980 1000cc Ironhead. It originally had an electronic ignition, but when that went out all I could afford and could get was a magneto. The stock tachometer drive gear ran it fine. I got tired of advancing and retarding it by hand and got a points ignition. My ride has the timing marks and a hole to see them through. Now I am trying to get a Hi 4N ignition to operate right. I ended up using a 3 ohm coil with a S&S super E carburetor. Last week I got the lower RPMs to run real smooth but when I reached the higher RPM I get back fires and the engine runs sluggish. That means it runs fine until I speed up enough to shift gears. Now I took the electronic ignition out. Hope some wires got messed up and it can get installed again so it runs like a drag bike.

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    Got the mode switch set properly? Is it set for singe fire or dual fire? Single spark or multi-spark mode? What is the rev limit switch set at? What type of plug wires ya got?
    Think the carb settings may be the cause or contributing to backfire and sluggish operation at higher rpm?

    Seen this?
    Installation Instructions for HI-4N Motorcycle Ignition
    https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default...5.pdf?sfvrsn=4
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 10-07-2018 at 11:13 PM.

  16. #16
    Skjoll
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    Quote Originally Posted by nucklhead View Post
    ... I got tired of advancing and retarding it by hand and got a points ignition. My ride has the timing marks and a hole to see them through. Now I am trying to get a Hi 4N ignition to operate right...
    How well was the bike running on points before changing to the Hi 4N?

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