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  1. #1
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    Default Shovelhead basket engine

    i picked up a basket case shovel engine a few months back, tore it down to take a look, and wanted to post it up here maybe get some info and input on putting it all together. Biggest questions / concerns are that the engine clearly sat for a while, so some pitting/rusting occurred in one cylinder but i havent sanded it down yet, just wiped it down with a rag basically. flywheel is spinning smoothly, and looks to have the bottom end completely assembled / fresh. cases are delkron, cylinders are S&S 80's appears, but im not really sure on bore size / piston size. rear piston reads s&s 1600, other reads b3002.

    so big question is, how bad is that rusting inside the cylinder, can it be runnable with sanding or run as is? can feel roughness with fingers on the cylinder but doesnt seem serious/surface rust only. the valves looks immaculate and motor appears to have never been ran. id need gaskets for reassembly, hardware is all there. not sure what oil pump these cases would need either, any input? never really assembled a motor before but this looks like its all in front of me. id need to read up on how tf the piston rings need to be assembled they seem very loose on the pistons not sure on alignment and assembly.

    dumping photos below, if you cannot view them try following the link: https://imgur.com/a/HXmBMnj


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    Damn that thing is beautiful...... I would just dingle berry hone the cylinders take the motor all the way apart clean it up and put it back together..... That was a great find...

  3. #3
    SamHain
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    sure you can try it. Iíd tear it down. Check/clean everything get measure cylinder clearance, go for a hone and rings. Thereís some reason somebody didnít finish half a days work, maybe they didnít know what they were doing, who knows what they already did. Sweet set of cases.

    Edit: Ah I see you tore it down. Still not horrible advice. You could try to rub that cylinder out with some non detergent oil and clean rags, thatís my go to after a hone. Rings fit loose on pistons, thereís some varying opinions, but most pretty much say donít put the gaps right on top of each other, space them equally.
    Last edited by SamHain; 09-16-2018 at 5:03 PM.

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    well i might not have fully stated this but the motor was all together when i first received it, bought sight unseen, meaning i did the tear down to verify everything. im certainly considering taking it to a shop for second opinions and such but it had compressions taking the cylinders off. only piece really missing is an oil pump, pushrods, ignition off the top of my head. i think for the price i got it it certainly seems like a great start. with any luck ill be able to put this together and swap out my shovel engine and sell it and make a profit. or just build another bike hah! you right tho about it sitting and not being ran. theres always a story...

    supposedly this was sold for someone who was planning on using it in build but never got around to it. Į\_(ツ)_/Į
    Last edited by FatChibs; 09-16-2018 at 5:05 PM.

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    Got 3-5/8' Big Bore jugs, that a big plus in the horse power department..
    Cast pistons, think i would want to do a clean up bore, but would need to buy oversize slugs....
    Stock Rods in a Stroker ain't nothing to write home about...

    Case is drilled for the 81-up oil pump, can run the 73 to 80 pump, but would be in need of plugging the pressure relief hole in the case..

    Kinda wondering about that cam cover... Casting numbers say -70 if I'm seeing it right ...???
    Those 70-72 covers are a bit diff. from the 73-up stuff... They are a side oiler instead of oiling the rods from the end of the pinion shaft..
    Also the oil feed hole going to the case is not the same as the later...

    Next on the list of what I think I'm seeing is a late cam meant for 77-up ... Not sure but do think the breather and pinion gear are for the early gear pitch, if so that's a mismatch of parts....
    Last edited by Dragstews; 09-16-2018 at 5:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post

    Next on the list of what I think I'm seeing is a late cam meant for 77-up ... Not sure but do think the breather and pinion gear are for the early gear pitch, if so that's a mismatch of parts....
    I've seen what that does, fortunately without personal involvement.

    Wasted gears, chips all over and no oil pressure....

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    70-72 ^^

    Click image for larger version. 

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    73-up
    _________________________________________________

    The cover that you show is weak in the webbing around the bushing area,
    that's ok for running stock stuff, but when higher loads (As in valve springs with much more spring pressures) they have been known to fail ....

    I would recommend a S&S ... They have a much better breather baffle over stock and are super beefy ...



    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ya won't be seeing much or any oil carry-over with this cover in play ...

    Also ....
    You need to ID your pinion shaft....
    If it has a hole in the side it is for running the 70-72 cover...
    If it don't have a hole in the side 73-up cover is needed...

    If indeed it is 73-up and it's made by Jim's you can install a metering plug in the end of it...



    Or install a plug made for the stock type shafts....

    Last edited by Dragstews; 09-17-2018 at 1:39 AM.

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    I wanted to follow up on this thread, i've actually ordered a lot of things to finally reassemble this motor. I got a "dingleberry" hone tool that i'll use to make sure the cylinders have a clean finish after cleaning up the little rust in the cylinders. I got pushrods, covers, rocker shaft nuts, full top end gasket kit, oil lines, oil pump. should be set to put it back together.

    I need to revisit a couple concerns raised in the thread. i bought this oil pump - https://www.ebay.com/itm/POLISHED-OI...72.m2749.l2649

    Seems to fit the years dragstews pointed out. i dont really see a definitive answer on the cam cover, do i need to change that out? i guess i need to pull it again and ID that pinion gear to be sure. What are your thoughts on that cam with the pinion / breather gear?

    Once parts are in I wanna throw it all together quickly, so uh wish me luck. If I do manage to swap the engine in my current shovel, it'll be nice to pull the heads off it and check the condition of it.
    Last edited by FatChibs; 01-30-2019 at 1:28 PM.

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    I have a wonder about the oil pump and your motor case....

    On the pump it says it fits from 73 and up, on the case, if it's 81 and up it will be drilled for the pressure relief valve, 80 and back was internal of the pump...

    If the pump is of the 80 and back design the hole in the motor case will need to be plugged "OR" if the motor case doesn't have the drilled hole and the pump is made to vent the valve into the case as in the 81 up design, yo'll need to drill the hole in the case...

  10. #10
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    u want a pic of the oil pump and oil pump side of the case? ill get one tmrw. plugging as in welding up the case?

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    No welding ... JB Weld will fill the drilled hole ....

    But let's take a look at what you got ... Might just be Plug & play ... ??

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    Oil pump is a Plug & Play being it's does fit the 81 and up case that you have ..
    Breather gear (Early 76-back) is a mismatch being you have the 77-up pinion and cam ...

    Cam cover is a weak link ... Not much support around the cam bushing...

  14. #14
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    So breather gear should be - 25313-77(c)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultima-Stee....c100008.m2219

    Cam cover should be 25258-80b

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-92-Harle...L33T:rk:3:pf:0

    Right? Yay more money!
    Last edited by FatChibs; 01-31-2019 at 4:37 PM.

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    I would not be buying those .... !!!

    No Sir ...

    This breather valve does a bit more ....



    PN 33-4250



    PN 31-0211

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatChibs View Post
    So breather gear should be - 25313-77(c)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultima-Stee....c100008.m2219


    That gear is junk....

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    I believe the breather gear in your pic is the correct one, factory HD. It has the larger diameter peg for the shim, and at least a vestige of the cross bar on the timing mark that HD used to identify those gears. I think you are golden with all the parts you have pictured so far.
    As far as the cam cover goes, if it has an end oiler bushing in it, where the oil supply goes around the bushing and fills the cavity below it, you are good there, too. It appears to have the correct oil passage drilling for an end oiler cover. The casting number that appears in the cover, like the numbers in a lot of HD castings, is not a part number. Different versions of the cover were produced from the same casting, same as a lot of other factory parts. How it's machined and finished determines what part (and part number) it is. You will see cam covers well into the mid-seventies with that -70 casting number, even though they are end oiling covers.

    Jim

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    Jim my man, saving me the dollars. I dont see any fitment issues, im gonna rock it and piss off dragstews lol.

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    Reason for me to say replace the cam cover is how it's made...
    In the later years of production the Mo-Co was taking many short cuts, like that cam cover having no support for the bushing....

    Sure it will run, but with Hi-Po valve train components it wouldn't be my choice.....

    Now to go piss-off .... Lol

    Oh ... For the record when I said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    I would not be buying those .... !!!

    No Sir ...

    This breather valve does a bit more ....
    Here's the reason for that ....



    The elongated hole does a better job of getting oil out of the breather air/oil separation cavity over stock and more open window timing as what the Boy in the video is talking about ....



    You can modify your gear to have that function ....



    If yo're up for a little work ... ??

    And to put the breather timing on the money can be done by modifying the case breather window... (The S&S Gear has already built that into the gear as said in the video)



    That job is a bunch of work being the motor needs to be taken apart for the timing checks (Open & Closing) and doing the grind on the case window...
    (So much easier to just plug in a S&S gear.)
    __________________________________________________

    Oh WTF .... Green Peace most likely won't chase ya down for a little bit of oil carryover ...



    Might not be able to say that for SpongeBob SquarePants ...



    (He looks pissed-off) ....
    Last edited by Dragstews; 02-02-2019 at 12:18 PM.

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    its back together, i ran into a dilemna with the pushrods / lifters. so they are solid lifters, i couldnt find any branding on em but allegedly jims solids per the original sellers second hand info. anyways, the rods i ordered were adjustable but wouldnt clear the tappet blocks without pulling the top end. so im not sure if i had pushrods that were too long, however the ones i bought were adjustables, and from what i briefly read about solid roller lifters you need to pull the top end to install them, which means they cant come out once installed. instead of pulling my freshly put together top end apart again i just removed the cam and dropped the lifters allowing me to get em in the heads. they arent fully adjusted 100% but i got em all tight and snugged with a little resistance. just wanted to run that by some others bc ive never had to install pushrods that way...makes me miss stock style lifters / rods a bit.

    edit: to be clear im not talking about hydraulic to solid converter inserts. im talking about completely solid lifters and these pushrods - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-4-0010



    after comparing to other jims lifters i dont think thats it, and they dont look like s&s either.

    maybe i just have the totally wrong pushrods but they adjusted tight.
    Last edited by FatChibs; 02-18-2019 at 8:47 PM.

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