Gun Control.. lets discuss (please bring your knowledge, not media hype fed bullshit)

[RickG61]

Do not confuse privileges with RIGHTS. Adopting a dog or having a drivers license
is a privilege---owning a firearm is a Constitutional RIGHT and can only be amended by a specified Constitutional
amendment process, not by the stroke of a pen of senators and congressmen.

I was making a point that in my area, there were more rules to adopting a dog than there were to legally purchasing a firearm. I have zero confusion between a right and a privilege. But as further comparison, I'd rather have a parent with kids at home taking proper safety measures with their firearms, than worrying how a kid may treat the new dog. I have yet to read any stories where a disgruntled employee or a high school student brought a dangerous dog to school in a back pack, and killed multiple people with it, because the parents forgot or never locked the dog up. Its a constitutional right, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't exercise some responsibilities when owning a firearm. I've already established I believe in the 2nd, and, I do so responsibly and safely, as everyone should. If everyone did, I'm thinking this post would be non existent


No need for door to door confiscation---all that needs to be done is find out who has
gone through the background check process and then notify those people that their drivers license or any other
license they may possess (contractor, realtor,etc.) will be suspended until they turn in ALL their firearms.The few
that bought guns through private sales before background checks really would not matter much because now
private sale of ammo and ammo components would be banned. Shooting ranges would be closed for EPA reasons
(indoor) and sky high insurance rates (outdoor),also no more shooting on National Forest Land.

A very small percentage of the firearms I own were purchased after the back ground checks went into effect. I think the number of firearms in existence would still be in the millions that were purchased before those checks. And ask yourself, if you own a firearm, how much ammo do you already have. Yeah, I know, never enough, LOL, but, quite a few gun owners are also owners of large amounts of ammo. Not to mention home reloading equipment.
Concealed Carry Licenses are just another way to get names on a list and those licenses
can easily be done away with.

Yep. But again, having a license does NOT tell them how many, if any, firearms you currently own, nor does the lack of a CCL prohibit you from owning a firearm. It becomes a means to legally carry in states that do not allow open carry. Again, in Hellinois, every firearm owner is required to possess a FOID card. No card, gun in home, you're breaking the law. No card, no ammo purchases. That card too can be revoked. Actually, its in the news right now since the fucking waffle house shooter lived in Hellinois, 20 minutes from where I'm at right now. He had his card revoked, but his stupid ass father returned all his guns when he moved out of state. Dad should be held accountable. That kid had many documented mental issues and should have never had a firearm in his possession.

[seaking]

I don't know about you guys but growing up there was one kid in church, and maybe one or two at school, that had severe anger problems--either mental or environmental. One friend of my mom's couldn't wait until her son moved out so she could "have walls and doors again." Where's that kid now? Prison. There was a doc on HBO about parents of these kids, they have the bare bones resources but they either don't commit the kid long enough to state hospital or they can't find a bed, say if they're committed through the ER. A lot of them were sent home early due to budget despite the hospital's recommendation.

Then, when the kid becomes 18 he's criminally liable and is sent off to prison, not the state mental hospital. One of the kids requested to be sent to the state hospital, they couldn't find an open bed so he was sent home. The next day he shot his dad, a state senator, and then himself.

I just thought it's the low-hanging fruit that needs to be taken care of before we start looking at gun laws. The mentally ill need a place to go and right now prison is the only option.

[hillcat]

....

I just thought it's the low-hanging fruit that needs to be taken care of before we start looking at gun laws. The mentally ill need a place to go and right now prison is the only option.

Actually another option is the hospital. My wife is a nurse.
The cops won't keep them in their cells so they drop them off at the hospital where nurses (usually females) have to deal with them. The local mental hospital plays pick&choose, taking who they want and making excuses for not taking trouble-makers or people with no ins. Even other hospitals are known to claim they have no room (beds) for some of the hardcore problem patients. Should my wife have to put up with being spit on, bitten, punched because the cops can't deal with it?

Basically you're right about the prison thing though and that's happening because they are a profitable business. The state and Feds are pressured by Republicans to not raise or even reduce taxes so there will never be enough facilities or staff to help the crazies.
It's all about the money, right Tattoo?

[RickG61]

welp...OK... good. We solved that problem, now on to another big issue.

Should sex robots be dishwasher safe for cleaning or is that too gross?
Maybe just the garden hose.

Well, if we can build a robot to fuck, we should be able to build another that's able to clean the first one. Of course, to avoid competition, we should make sure the cleaning robot is a eunuch. We don't need to wake up and find that both the sex bot and the cleaning bot have run off together. Right there's a futuristic country song if I ever heard one.

[nofendertom]

RickG61---We are both on the same page---my rantings are of the "It could happen variety." Remember
these types of forums will also be scoured for info. I believe the penalties for gun related crimes should
be harsher and not dropped just so they can get a conviction for something else. Also, parents or anyboby
(relative or not) who gives access to a gun to anybody (relative or not) should be held responsible for
that persons actions.

[Guest]

Do not confuse privileges with RIGHTS. Adopting a dog or having a drivers license
is a privilege---owning a firearm is a Constitutional RIGHT and can only be amended by a specified Constitutional
amendment process, not by the stroke of a pen of senators and congressmen.
No need for door to door confiscation---all that needs to be done is find out who has
gone through the background check process and then notify those people that their drivers license or any other
license they may possess (contractor, realtor,etc.) will be suspended until they turn in ALL their firearms.The few
that bought guns through private sales before background checks really would not matter much because now
private sale of ammo and ammo components would be banned. Shooting ranges would be closed for EPA reasons
(indoor) and sky high insurance rates (outdoor),also no more shooting on National Forest Land.
Concealed Carry Licenses are just another way to get names on a list and those licenses
can easily be done away with.

I disagree rights are not granted by a piece of paper or government, only restricted by tyrants. If men are equal, none are superior and all authority is illegitimate. I think the Declaration of Independence sums it up more eloquently than I could; life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable rights everyone born has. obviously your rights don’t supersede others, that is authority. Owning a dog sure seems to be a right, unless of course dogs have rights....

[Tattooo]

It's all about the money, right Tattoo?

Damn right that's all it's about....

[Revelator]

[Fetch]

Nice!

[usmc50lx]

RickG61---We are both on the same page---my rantings are of the "It could happen variety." Remember
these types of forums will also be scoured for info. I believe the penalties for gun related crimes should
be harsher and not dropped just so they can get a conviction for something else. Also, parents or anyboby
(relative or not) who gives access to a gun to anybody (relative or not) should be held responsible for
that persons actions.

I agree with some parts of most of the responses in this thread, that's why I've just watched the conversation go. But this I agree with 100% if access is given. I have heard people talking about holding people accountable even if the gun is legitimately stolen, as in safe was removed from home etc. that the gun owner is responsible for the crime committed because "he allowed their guns to be stolen" to me that's asinine. Now for my rant,


I grew up in a house with guns that weren't locked up, they were just inside the closet and only the 12ga was loaded. But my Dad didn't treat it as some taboo or some toy, we knew what they could do and were taught how to use them and how to respect them. Never once in my childhood do I ever remember thinking about grabbing them and doing anything. I will also add to this, I was somewhat a bullied kid and had anger issues but learned to fight and started throwing punches and the bullies stopped. I feel its everyone's right to feel safe in their own home whether that takes a firearm or not is up to that individual. Spending time in the Marine Corps and trips overseas showed me what true evil was and it isn't the devil its in fellow man. I carry, because lets face it there are people who will rob you and shoot or kill you for $5 and I'll be damned if I go out that way. So Its rather funny to me, that after these tragedies a bunch of uninformed people from white picket fence Pleasantville neighborhoods who have never had a gun pulled on them, and the politicians whom are protected by ARMED security are going to tell me how I can protect myself, my property, and my loved ones based on a knee jerk reaction and their emotion rather than logical fact.

[RickG61]

I agree with some parts of most of the responses in this thread, that's why I've just watched the conversation go. But this I agree with 100% if access is given. I have heard people talking about holding people accountable even if the gun is legitimately stolen, as in safe was removed from home etc. that the gun owner is responsible for the crime committed because "he allowed their guns to be stolen" to me that's asinine. N

I'm with ya on the asinine "if stolen" part. You could weld the damned safe doors shut, bury it in concrete, and some sumbitch could figure out a way to steal whats inside if they wanted to.

It burns me when I read how people want the right to sue the gun mfg when one of their guns is used in a crime. Yeah. So, do we sue General Motors when one of their vehicles is involved in an accident not related to crappy assembly at the factory? Do we sue the farmer when someone chokes to death on a steak? Where do we draw the line and say, if an asshole uses a product to commit a crime, it's not the products fault, nor the mfg. It's the asshole who committed the crime. The exception being as stated above. If mom or dad or ??? gave you the gun knowing you were a disaster looking for an opportunity to happen, if they left a firearm unattended, unsecured, and it gets used by their idiot son, well, the parents are idiots too, and need to be dealt with. But again, still not the fault of the original mfg.

[usmc50lx]

I'm with ya on the asinine "if stolen" part. You could weld the damned safe doors shut, bury it in concrete, and some sumbitch could figure out a way to steal whats inside if they wanted to.

It burns me when I read how people want the right to sue the gun mfg when one of their guns is used in a crime. Yeah. So, do we sue General Motors when one of their vehicles is involved in an accident not related to crappy assembly at the factory? Do we sue the farmer when someone chokes to death on a steak? Where do we draw the line and say, if an asshole uses a product to commit a crime, it's not the products fault, nor the mfg. It's the asshole who committed the crime. The exception being as stated above. If mom or dad or ??? gave you the gun knowing you were a disaster looking for an opportunity to happen, if they left a firearm unattended, unsecured, and it gets used by their idiot son, well, the parents are idiots too, and need to be dealt with. But again, still not the fault of the original mfg.

Worst of all one of them was a popular local Radio and TV news/politics talkshow host here in STL... I engaged him in discussion while dodging insults and name calling, then embarrassed him with facts and real stats. Then asked him if he was so correct he wouldn't mind if we had the discussion on his show. Shockingly I'm still waiting on that phone call. Slowly the idiots keep multiplying who are so uninformed its almost comical, until you realize that they vote based on their favorite celebrity and not reason or feeling

[hillcat]

...Slowly the idiots keep multiplying who are so uninformed its almost comical, until you realize that they vote based on their favorite celebrity and not reason or feeling

Alas true, hence Trump.

[Tattooo]

Alas true, hence Trump.

+2 And I love guns...

[usmc50lx]

Lets keep this shit on guns as that's what I was referring to and the uninformed media that knows fuck all about guns. You want to go bash him there's an entire thread devoted to just that so you can stroke your ego and feel morally superior based on your choice of political candidate over there.