Advice for Startup Custom Painter

[Tattooo]

Since I already have a few airbrushes for graphics, I figure I just need guns for laying down coats. Does that sound right? What do I need to look for?

Don't buy cheap junk from Harbor freight.... It's crap and cheap for a reason and a waste of money if you plan on doing it for a living.... If you want something that will last buy quality ....

I've still have a Devilbiss and a Sharp #7 paint gun that I bought 30 years ago and they still work great...

I don't care for HVLP guns myself, but they are the rage today.... Use what you are comfortable with...

[Steelsmith]

This isn't a matter of what the rage is, it's about the continual legislation forwarded by the EPA. Current rules in California are all about reduced VOC's emitted during paint application processes. They are proposing monitoring solvent out vs turned-in solvent for recycle! Old siphon-guns are no longer legal to use as a commercial painter in certain States.
Hybrid HVLP guns still have too much wasted product emmited into the air (overspray). I loved my old Iwata HVLP guns but, even they had to have upgraded needles and nozzles to be legal.
Turbine HVLP uses 60% of the sprayable material of even the best hybrid compressor guns. @$50-75.00 per quart $100.00 ready to spray/reduced and catalyzed, that is a significant $dollar figure as well as being EPA compliant.
I don't like it anymore than anybody else does and now that I live in small town Texas, it doesn't matter for me but, for a newby these are things you need to know! Spending serious money on paintguns and equipment shouldn't have to be a repeated deal. If the EPA has their way, all current compressor sprayguns will eventually be illegal for use in commercial paint applications.
Just saying ...

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

I use a SATA Top Coat and clear guns, they are the "Hybrid" HVLP guns and I cant say now but when they came out they were top of the game and retail was $400-600 each. I have bought some of the HF knock offs and they are dead nuts ringers for my SATAs and I at heart, cannot abuse and toss a tool, so I have used them and give them the same care as my top shelf guns. I have several vintage Siphon feed Devilbiss and another brand I used to use the hell out of in the 1980s, and I still do for primer sometimes. HF runs sales and I bought some of their small touch up guns as well when dirt cheap and using coupons. Gifted a few to friends as well as they are so cheap when you catch the sales.

Most of this though,,,,,, you are not gonna learn much on a free internet forum and I dont have time to type it all out. Would be a VERY smart move to take a community college class as I said, that would give any newby a solid foundation to work with.
If thats not possible then buy a book, several good ones cover the basics from tools to types of paint products.

But the industry is constantly evolving. Also depends on what you have for paint reps and jobbers in the area. Most states have made it illegal to sell to joe blow off the street and most jobbers I deal with have prominent signs at the shop "We do NOT sell to the public" I have multiple profeshional certs and licenses and any one of which gets me in the door, but walking into many commercial jobbers unless you are a exceptional BS artist they will turn you away. I cant say the penalties and would vary from none to severe but selling a lacquer product in a DEQ enforced zone is a $10,000.00 per violation fine.

Start with this guy, one of the GODS of custom paint, I have taken one of his workshops as he used to travel around and teach, Much respect to this man, Once you have some basics a class like that can reap HUGE rewards in a few hour seminar or class.
See: https://www.amazon.com/Jon-Kosmoskis.../dp/0964135833
If you cant deal with $20 to answer 99% of your questions then you have bigger problems.

Here is some of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjOOTaHa8GI

[Steelsmith]

Doug is 'right on the button'. Painting in some locales is very 'restricted access'. Some places, not so much, Community College or night courses at the local school? I did my bit at the Boise State University 'Autobody Program' in the early '80's. The basics are the same but, materials have evolved and so has the equipment.
I'm glad I won't be around when it becomes illegal to do stuff in your own garage. Until then, have at it and don't do dumb shit that hastens the government dicks to come around and take your tools!
Go build something!

[Steelsmith]

You can't get better than Kosmoski, he literally wrote the book on kustom painting. He started HOK, ( House of Kolor) which used to be the supplier of the majority of Kustom paint products. I never had a class with Jon but, did have one with Craig Frasier, lots to learn from guys of that skill level.
Invest in yourself!

[Orgeston]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll definitely be buying a couple of those Kosmoski books.
We get away with all kinds of stuff out here in the boondocks of Missouri, so I'm not really concerned about that. The only time government employees get anywhere near the place is when the property tax people come around for a reevaluation.

I've seen a lot of custom painted fender/tank kits for sale on eBay. Until I can get my foot in the door of a shop, is there good potential there to start getting returns on my investment?

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

I am a HUGE fanboy of HOK paints, and love doing customs, My bread and butter were restoration type paint jobs, Most British but some American but instead of old lacquer rub & tugs and 20 coats, I replicated the stuff in modern materials. But custom stuff was what I enjoy best, I am not a big airbrush or pinstriper guy, but can recreate the stock pinstriping on a Triumph or Norton, but anything more complicated than that I do the 2 tone layouts or whatever and have a selected artist do the rest then I clear it. But double lines, or basic flame jobs I am good with that, I used to paint acft too,, and always wanted to but never the opportunity to do a flame job on a airplane. (Apparently its bad JuJu)
And as a young broke GI we had a small crew of us that did Private acft off duty and we got a name for quality work at way less than anyone else was charging. It was a nice way to make some money as Uncle Sugar dont pay squat.

I also sold a lot of grey porridge bikes and some cars with a nice paint job, My personal favs are HOK Kandy Burple with Alaska Cream accents or 2 tone with gold pinstripes,, or gold leaf. That color changes depending on the light source. Bright sun it looks a very rich Blue but goes to a Blackish Purple. People love it. Kobalt Blue is also another winner. But then we have "Re-Sale red" Knocks em dead every time. Especially if you 2 tone it with scallops or accents. Depends on the bike but Kandy Brandywine is my main go-to, But Kandy Apple red with the right substrate gold or silver base is a dead nuts ringer for some of the Matchless/AJS and Norton colors as well as with some fine tuning works equally as well on BSA- I can nail a 67 BSA with that combo. I have had people show up to consider buying the bike and look at the paint job and they buy it on the spot. Havent even heard it run. Hence "Re-sale red".

I am painting some stuff in the very near future for the INOA international Norton rally in July, Be happy to post a paint thread beginning to end. I am taking my 1961 G80TCS Typhoon (600cc Thumper) as well as my 65 Norton N15CS (750 twin desert scrambler) Both are getting the HOK treatment. (This is what the bikes look like when done and proper layout but both are too light on the red, I got the formula down, done a ton of em)

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

To answer your question on ROI, Yes, a good painter who turns out good product will have a line out the door. Paint work has become stupid expensive, We have some friends restoring/building a Mustang hotrod with their son, a replica of what Mom drove in High school. The car is pretty solid and not a ton of body work but they are getting estimates of between $5,000 and $10,000 for paint and body work.
I USED to do 2 tone stock-ish Triumph paint jobs (typically a mid 60s to 1970s bike) with 2 fenders and a tank for $350-450 back in the 1990s. Just for grins I sent out for an estimate to some shops and got back $1000-$1500 for what I was doing. Materials have skyrocketed, make NO mistake, and a gallon of 2k Poly clear can easily set you back over $200 depending on brand. (2 fenders/Tank will use about a quart if you bury it in clear). But regardless,, there IS money to be made.
Now, when you get into custom jobs, or elaborate artwork sky is the limit.
.
.
But here is the kicker. No lack of talented people out there when they sober up long enough to do a paint job, But being consistent and high quality, That is the key. As I said, Painters are one of the flakiest professions out there right behind strippers and models. Consistent quality. But that doesnt happen over night. And when it blows up, or there is a problem, (Which happens to EVERYBODY) then be prepared to have to eat the costs, and do whatever it takes to make it right. I still paint, but very selectively these days but once you get a name, it only takes one or 2 problem customers to put some serious stink on you even if its not your fault. But you CAN make some serious money if you can consistently turn out quality product. But I got into it because I could not afford paying some one else, I did some for friends and pretty soon I got all the work I wanted and work I did not want.

Protip, A job is never just a job. Some jobs carry too much liability or risk, never get pushed into or pressured into a job that does not feel right. So some great advice I got early on was when a PIA walks in the door bid it exceedingly high and stick to your guns. *IF* they walk, huge relief and a big win, But If they go for it, at LEAST you get a nice payday for all the BS & hassle.

Some restorers wanted certain brands used, and Don Hutchinson is a paint supplier offering allegedly exact paint matches to certain British bikes. He USED to sell the base colors in Lacquer as that was what he had for a mix station and formulas. But Lacquer was on its way out in early 1990s and besides notoriously unstable and unpredictable it became a big problem to find products I could use with it. I had a shop customer I had a long standing deal with and contracted to do his collection, 10 bikes, #8 or #9 was a 67 Daytona and he got in a hurry to have it ready for a show. I was very uncomfortable doing it with the supplied Hutchinson paint. I pulled some long hours to make it happen and was nearly done, Deadline was fast approaching. When peeling the painters tape for the 2 tone (I use the 3m blue vinyl prograde tape) as it was coming up, the laquer base coat lifted in large chunks right off the primer. ~ Lack of adhesion~ Which is common with Lacquers. It was exactly what I was afraid of and instinctively knew what would happen. (Fingers crossed) Customer was pissed off. All kinds of threats and a lot of grief over it. 20 years later still talks Sh*t about me to anyone who will listen. He tried to take it to another local painter. I know him and of course he called me right away. He told the guy same deal. Lacquers dangerous and unstable. Refused to take the job unless he used his own products. (Which is what I SHOULD have done in the first place.) Never ever let the customer run the job.
Same with Customers who dont know what they are talking about, or their pea brains have not entered into the modern age.
Had a customer walk on a high dollar Harley paint/resto because i wouldnt color sand the base coats. You dont color sand poly base, you flash it and follow with clear, THEN you polish the clear. But in his peanut brain he had it in his mind you laid 15 coats of color and wet sanded between each one and thats the only way you get a show quality job. Ignoramus was confusing modern paint with 1960s paint. Fine by me. Happy to see him leave. That would never have ended well.

[gorgeous]

I am painting some stuff in the very near future for the INOA international Norton rally in July, Be happy to post a paint thread beginning to end. I am taking my 1961 G80TCS Typhoon (600cc Thumper) as well as my 65 Norton N15CS (750 twin desert scrambler) Both are getting the HOK treatment. (This is what the bikes look like when done and proper layout but both are too light on the red, I got the formula down, done a ton of em)

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Please please post a thread. I do cabinets and furniture for a living and am about to step my equipment up. I've gotten really into the finishing aspect of my job more than I ever thought I would. But we spray mostly lacquer and water based stuff.

Once I get my bike put back together I am going to paint it. I've started planning the job already, but it's always nice to see someone's process. If you have the time please post!

[DoomBuggy]

To tie into Doug's points above. The last car I restored was a very rare 1967 Grand Prix convertible ( Less then 6,000 GP convertibles were ever made ).

It was a black car so i knew my garage setup was not going to cut it ( dust control ). I took it to one of the best shops in the area ( Winner of two Ridler Awards ). The total cost was just under $20k for hanging the sheet metal, getting it all PERFECTLY straight, and then shooting the single stage black. They actually had to re-shoot it as they buffed it to a glass like finish and I had told them I needed the original orange peel effect for a 100 Point restoration.

After successfully showing it for a few years I sold it at auction and had two museums and two private collectors go into a bidding war for it.

Point of all this, there is lots of money to be made, and it is a really rewarding hobby/profession but you have to know where your limitations are. You also need to judge your customer. I was up front with the painter i took the GP to and made it clear the car would need to be letter perfect, and he charged me accordingly, but when they screwed up he also made it right ( he ate the cost of the final wet sand, re-spray, and buff )

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

To tie into Doug's points above. The last car I restored was a very rare 1967 Grand Prix convertible ( Less then 6,000 GP convertibles were ever made ).

It was a black car so i knew my garage setup was not going to cut it ( dust control ). I took it to one of the best shops in the area ( Winner of two Ridler Awards ). The total cost was just under $20k for hanging the sheet metal, getting it all PERFECTLY straight, and then shooting the single stage black. They actually had to re-shoot it as they buffed it to a glass like finish and I had told them I needed the original orange peel effect for a 100 Point restoration.

After successfully showing it for a few years I sold it at auction and had two museums and two private collectors go into a bidding war for it.

Point of all this, there is lots of money to be made, and it is a really rewarding hobby/profession but you have to know where your limitations are. You also need to judge your customer. I was up front with the painter i took the GP to and made it clear the car would need to be letter perfect, and he charged me accordingly, but when they screwed up he also made it right ( he ate the cost of the final wet sand, re-spray, and buff )

Holy crap! that would be REALLY hard for me to pull off is one of those oem nice but flawed jobs, It would take a ton of practice panels and playing with the chemistry to pull off. Once you understand modern base coat clear coat finishes, and you can maintain laser focus (lots of espresso for me) Its actually fun and easy (with many years practice) to get a super wet look finish. Dipped in plastic basically. But to replicate a factory "Flawed" finish would be extremely difficult. No joke, ask any experienced painter.

[DoomBuggy]

;-)

[usmc50lx]

I have a friend who uses only the Harbor freight guns anymore, stocks up when they are $9.99 and uses them for everything, he runs a collision shop and does a lot of custom work sure they have high dollar guns at the shop but when you can set one up, use it and toss it why not for $10.00. Just picked this tank up from him so this was sprayed all with Harbor Freight guns fyi.

[Steelsmith]

I hear what you're sayin'. Don't like it but I do hear you! If the HF guns do that well and you don't have to use solvent or cleanup/maintinence time, it makes dollars and cents! That's the reality of body-shop economics.

[Tattooo]

I hear what you're sayin'. Don't like it but I do hear you! If the HF guns do that well and you don't have to use solvent or cleanup/maintinence time, it makes dollars and cents! That's the reality of body-shop economics.

Yea I kinda agree.... But it's a waste of money as far as I'm concerned..... I guess I was brought up with less money than most....