'67 Iron Chop

[tunacantom]

So the bike was now back in my possession. It turns on with a few kicks, and it only kicks back sometimes. Luckily when my guy had it he went through the kicker assembly and replaced the bent shaft and worn bushings so it doesn't slip the ratchet gears AS often anymore. Against my guy and my dad's recommendation I took it up and down the road with blown front wheel bearings...



I didn't crash but it was pretty sketchy. I bought a new front wheel for the bike a few months before and mounted a new Speedmaster on it; but, it was a 5/8 wheel and my axle was 3/4 so I couldn't install yet. I found a company in New Jersey called World Wide Bearings and they set me up with some 3/4 bearings that would fit. While I was waiting for the bearings to come in I decided to replace my kicker pedal with an old BMX pedal...probably not the best idea because now when she kicks back it's going to hurt a hell of a lot more, but it looks awesome. I used some newer clevis adapters for bicycle pedals, but am not too excited on the bulkiness of them so I plan on revisiting that later and machining my own...



While I was waiting for the bearings I mounted my license plate bracket and tail light. My dad had a sweet '66 Mass plate that he was going to throw on the Aermacchi, but he said if the number was good and the RMV would take it it's mine. I also found another 35mm front end that was shaved and 8" over for a fair price on Instagram (@ChopperSwapper is great). I Venmo'd the guy and he shipped it out. Everything arrived about a week later and Sean came over and helped me throw it on...

Plate and tail light mounted...



Front end and new wheel mounted...

[tunacantom]

We're almost up to speed now but there's a little more to go. I decided it was time to sell my Evo Sporty. I didn't want to pay insurance and registration on two bikes so it was time to go. I tossed it up on Cragslist and a few weeks later it was sold. It was bittersweet but I knew it had to be done (don't worry, I kept my custom bike rack for later use). With the Evo sold, I had 7 days according to the state where I could use the plate on my other bike before I would have to register it.

So I slapped some wiring on the Iron to rip it up the road and...nothing. Couldn't get anything out of the lights. So I grabbed my multimeter and started probing around the gen and reg...still nothing. My spirits were slightly crushed, but I knew how long it had been sitting so I buckled down, ripped the gen off, and pulled it apart. It was pretty dirty, but nothing was physically wrong with it. I bench tested it and it spun when given power. I drenched it in contact cleaner and put it back together in hopes for better results...nothing. At this point I was pretty mad so I decided to call it a night and come back to it the next day.



When I went to the shop the next day I asked my dad to meet me and see if he could help figure things out. He has a lot more experience with older electrics than I do so I figured he may be able to figure it out. We played around with it for a while with no luck. I started to think the gen or the reg was no good and was ready to just order one of the Cycle Electric combos.

My dad decided we should test it one more time; and, this time I got some very low voltage coming off. I had him give it more throttle, and it rose, we did this until ~4k RPM when all of a sudden the lights turned on and the voltage jumped right to where it should have been. And when he let off the throttle and let it go back to idle, everything stayed on.

This is exactly how the bike is running to date. I have no idea why. Start the bike, nothing, give it a good rev, everything turns on and stays on until I shut the bike off. I have polarized the gen a few times, cleaned everything, and asked a few of my dad's friends and no one has anything to say other than "gen is toast." But it works good enough for test drives so I'm taking it for now.

[tunacantom]

With the bike now running and the ritual for turning the lights on being successful, it was time to start test driving and sorting out issues. So I hopped on the steed and ripped it over to Sean's dads station to get some new gas...



Left the station and decided to take the long way back to my shop. Made it about one more mile. I was sitting at a red light at a busy intersection when the clutch started to go. Damn bike tried to pull me right into cross-traffic. So I killed it, hopped off, and pushed it to the side of the road. I couldn't see anything immediately wrong with it, but I did have a new clutch cable put on when I had it with my guy so I figured it probably just stretched and needed adjusting. I started it back up in neutral, got myself rolling, and kicked it into gear to get myself back to my shop.

At the shop I played with the adjustment until I ran out and the clutch was still engaged...something was seriously wrong, so I threw it back on the trailer and brought it back to my guy. He called me the next day and told me the pressure plate collapsed. Didn't surprise me too much. Had him order a new clutch and put it in for me.

In the mean time I decided to actually register it instead of riding on the old Evo Sporty plates. I grabbed that sweet '66 plate and went to the RMV after work on a Tuesday. The manager at that branch told me the plate was NOT original paint and that somebody had repainted it at some point in time. I argued with her for 30 minutes about she had no idea what she was talking about. Finally she said if I want to keep arguing I can go to the RMV's administrative office. So that's exactly what I did. The next day I went to the administrative office, a nice 1.5 hour drive with Boston traffic, just to be told I missed the head of specialty plates by 8 minutes (it was 3:30 in the afternoon?!). Luckily one of the guys there was extremely nice and gave me a phone number to call before I tried coming in again to make sure the head would be there. The following day I called, and she was there. Got out of work, drove over, she looked at the plate...and...agreed with me that it was in fact original paint.

First real success I have ever had with the RMV. Walked out happy and with my bike registered on a low number '66 plate. By this time my guy had done the clutch so I picked the bike up and mounted the newly legitimate plate...



I decided it was time to give the bike another test drive. This time I made it to my destination and back...but when I got back I realized my gas cap was POURING out gas, just waiting to leak onto my heads and start a nice fire between my legs.

I first decided to make a new gasket for the cap...still leaked...tried a different thicker material so the cap went on a little tighter...still leaked...tried the cap off the old tank...still leaked...tried a brand new cap one of my dad's friends had...still leaked...wtf

Almost out of options, my dad walked by and said he had one last idea. Remember that '61 Econoline P'up from earlier? Yeah? well he grabbed the cap from it...and it fit...and didn't leak...

(Econoline also coming along. In the process of being rewired by my dad. Gonna make a great hauler for the Iron when it breaks next...)



Anyways, tossed one of the leaky caps on the Econoline for the time being and went for another ride on the Iron. Was going great until the bike died on me again. Turns out the Econoline cap wasn't venting fast enough and couldn't keep up with the carb. Kept riding anyways, just unscrewed the cap every-other red light to alleviate the pressure.

But yeah, that brings everything up to speed. I'm happy with how it's coming along. My to do list now is much smaller than it used to be, but it looks something like this:

- Find a gas cap that doesn't leak and vents fast enough
- Pick a color for paint and do a few sprayouts
- Figure out why the hell the lights don't turn on right away (seriously if anyone has any idea why this is happening please help me)
- Pick a different color because I'm an indecisive bitch and there's too much to choose from
- Redesign and fab foot peg mounts (current ones hit the pipe and kickstand...not a fan)
- Fab passenger and highway peg mounts
- Machine custom BMX kicker adapter (probably going to be welded on to stay slim)
- Machine custom wedge style foot pegs, or maybe sand-cast, not sure yet
- Add a mirror so I can tell if I'm going to get rear-ended

and that's about it I'm hoping. I'm going to try to keep this updated with my progress from here on out. Hope y'all enjoy.

[dirtygrotonscoundrel]

In connecticut you do not need a title for anything over 25 years old, a bill of sale is all it would take to swap ownership. Since you bought it in CT that is the law of the land and MA should eb able to register that for you with just a bill of sale.

Not that I am saying to forge government documents, but I know I have heard of people simply putting the information from the title on a CT Bill of Sale and accidentally signing in both places.

I hear that it has worked multiple times with no issue, as long as you can get someone to run the vin and make sure nobody else out there is holding a registration.

For the record, I have done this multiple times with no issue. I know it is not the ideal way but it's really more like the bending of the truth, rather than a full fabrication.

Hopefully that can help with your title issue.

[Dragstews]

Hummmmmm ...

.../// https://youtu.be/LT8Obu9mH8Y \\\...

F-O-R-D = Fu*kin Old Rebuilt Dodge ...

[tunacantom]

In connecticut you do not need a title for anything over 25 years old, a bill of sale is all it would take to swap ownership. Since you bought it in CT that is the law of the land and MA should eb able to register that for you with just a bill of sale.

Not that I am saying to forge government documents, but I know I have heard of people simply putting the information from the title on a CT Bill of Sale and accidentally signing in both places.

I hear that it has worked multiple times with no issue, as long as you can get someone to run the vin and make sure nobody else out there is holding a registration.

For the record, I have done this multiple times with no issue. I know it is not the ideal way but it's really more like the bending of the truth, rather than a full fabrication.

Hopefully that can help with your title issue.

Thanks for the info. I ended up getting Facebook guy to request a duplicate and sign it over into my name. Bike is now legally mine and registered.

As far as the whole bill of sale thing goes, I know that's true, but the last person to hold a registration on the bike was in MA which is why I was hesitant. As soon as I would try to reg in MA it would flag that it was still legally owned by Facebook guy.

It might have worked, I'm really not sure. I just ended up being able to get the duplicate and do it that way.

[tunacantom]

Hummmmmm ...

.../// https://youtu.be/LT8Obu9mH8Y \\\...

F-O-R-D = F u*kin O ld R ebuilt D odge ...

That's gotta be terrifying. Driving anything where you're sitting in front/on the front axle is already sketchy enough. If we end up doing any heavy modifications to ours it'll be to make it low 'n slow.

[tunacantom]

So I'm already back with more updates. At some point during my test rides I managed to crack the top triple tree. I have no idea why or how it would have happened the way it did. Probably just old metal in combination with some rake catching up to it...



Regardless, I'm just happy it wasn't a more catastrophic failure. I still have the other trees from the 35mm I pulled off, so my plan was to swap that top tree on when it came time to paint.

But today after work I was bored and had some motivation in me, so I figured I may as well try my luck as slinging a good 'ole bead of aluminum on there and smoothing it out. Came out pretty good, it has a slight wave to it now, but that's because I tried to build up some material to strengthen it a little bit...



In other news, I checked the tracking info on the block mount style foot pegs I ordered from JP for mock up, and they should be in tomorrow. This means I'll hopefully be getting the passenger and highway peg mounts all fabbed and welded up this weekend. After that it shouldn't be too much more tweaking before I'm ready to re-prime and start seriously thinking colors.

[Dragstews]

That's gotta be terrifying. Driving anything where you're sitting in front/on the front axle is already sketchy enough. If we end up doing any heavy modifications to ours it'll be to make it low 'n slow.

That truck is sitting 9 miles up the road from me in "Don Garlits' Museum"



And it kinda looks like you have been doing some Wheel Standing too ....

[TriNortchopz]

We're almost up to speed now but there's a little more to go...
So I slapped some wiring on the Iron to rip it up the road and...nothing. Couldn't get anything out of the lights. So I grabbed my multimeter and started probing around the gen and reg...still nothing. My spirits were slightly crushed, but I knew how long it had been sitting so I buckled down, ripped the gen off, and pulled it apart. It was pretty dirty, but nothing was physically wrong with it. I bench tested it and it spun when given power. I drenched it in contact cleaner and put it back together in hopes for better results...nothing...
When I went to the shop the next day...no luck. I started to think the gen or the reg was no good and was ready to just order one of the Cycle Electric combos.
My dad decided we should test it one more time; and, this time I got some very low voltage coming off. I had him give it more throttle, and it rose, we did this until ~4k RPM when all of a sudden the lights turned on and the voltage jumped right to where it should have been. And when he let off the throttle and let it go back to idle, everything stayed on.
This is exactly how the bike is running to date. I have no idea why. Start the bike, nothing, give it a good rev, everything turns on and stays on until I shut the bike off. I have polarized the gen a few times, cleaned everything, and asked a few of my dad's friends and no one has anything to say other than "gen is toast." But it works good enough for test drives so I'm taking it for now.

That delayed lighting on is kinda strange - no old 'Lucas' parts mixed in there?(LOL).
Makes me think of somethin' like a 'sticky' diode - not lettin' power through it until it reaches the full charge rate - are ya' runnin' a separate circuit breaker for the lighting? If so, what if you were to stick an inline fuse in as a fun test. Might be too simple, but hey, sometimes simple is good; did you measure voltage to other systems while runnin', before snappin' the throttle to get lights lit up? What is voltage to coil at idle when first starting bike? If voltage was low there, you would think an ignition problem may also be a result...hhmmm. What kind of switch ya got for the lights?

Might be a few clues in this article, (which ya probably already read) but note several references to the Factory Manual - ya got one?

http://odenmotorshop.com/2013/12/ironmicks-complete-guide-to-troubleshooting-ironhead-electrical-problems/
1. Fully charge battery.
4. Charging System Test:
Measure the voltage with the bike idling at about 2000 to 3000 RPM. It should be at least 1.0 volts higher than the not-running reading, otherwise the charging system is not charging the battery. It should be at least 13.x, preferably 14.x
5. Regulator Test:
Disconnect the regulator. Connect your ohmmeter to the orange and tan wires. Note the reading. Reverse the connections. Note the reading. One reading should show continuity, the other should show no continuity. If the regulator does not pass this test it is no good. This test only tests one circuit in the regulator, so even if it passes this test it may still be no good. There are other tests of the regulator that require specialized equipment. These tests are in the factory and Clymer manuals...
6. Generator Test #1: Residual Magnetism
7. Generator Test #2: Maximum Output
8. Here’s a good way to bench test your generator:
9. Polarizing the Generator
10. Polarizing the Generator – The Complete Story
11. Generator Brushes Assembly: Dismantle, Cleaning, Repair

From XL Forum: Ironhead Probably a stupid Voltage Regulator question

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/archive/index.php/t-1085926.html

"...after 1965 the model 65a generators were used..."
thread OP says,"I have a Cycle Electric regulator", so info may not be completely relevant.

Another XL Forum thread, 11 pages: IronHead Charging System Checkout
thread starts out with same 'guide to troubleshooting' info above, but lots of pages after that

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=39146

Lotsa Ironhead Technical threads here; Technical Stickys Index - TuneUps, ReBuilds, Etc, Etc, Etc

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=465866

and here: Thread: (1977)ironhead regulator issues help

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27279

and here: Thread: Ironhead generator

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5041

[tunacantom]

That delayed lighting on is kinda strange - no old 'Lucas' parts mixed in there?(LOL).
Makes me think of somethin'...

Thank for all the information. The bike is magneto so the only thing being powered off the generator is the lights. I'm also not running a battery. As of right now the lights are wired directly from the Cycle Electric reg. No fuses, no breakers, nothing fancy (going to add in-lines when I wire after paint). I followed both the troubleshooting guide you posted above and the troubleshooting guide in the manual I have (almost identical). I haven't seen any of those other threads so I'll take a look through them when I have time.

I did test the system, but when I did I wasn't looking for specific numbers, at that time I was just hoping to see some sort of reading other than 0 on the multimeter. I'll re-test everything this weekend and get some numbers and report back.

[TriNortchopz]

Oh ya, forgot about that mag; "First off, the mag was on backwards, second off, the mag was toast. My guy got the bike to start one time with the mag in that state before telling me it was fucked. I was dissapointed, but it happens. I had him box the mag up and ship it to Morris who agreed it was fucked. They rebuilt it almost completely and sent it back."
With no battery, are you using a capacitor in its place?

[tunacantom]

Oh ya, forgot about that mag; "First off, the mag was on backwards, second off, the mag was toast. My guy got the bike to start one time with the mag in that state before telling me it was fucked. I was dissapointed, but it happens. I had him box the mag up and ship it to Morris who agreed it was fucked. They rebuilt it almost completely and sent it back."
With no battery, are you using a capacitor in its place?

No capacitor in it's place. I may try to toss one on. From what I've understood, the capacitor is only NEEDED if you're not running a mag. Otherwise the only purpose it serves is to smooth out the flow and make the lights less flickery.

I'm starting to think the Cycle Electric reg that's on there might just be no good. Might try to give them a shout and see if they have any sort of troubleshooting guide for them.

[TriNortchopz]

Looks like you are not the only one with an ironhead generator problem; found this site which I thought may be a solution, but just describes a problem - but one item to note was the concern of a loose generator drive gear - could yours be slipping on the shaft on startup?

How to Build a Sportster
(from a pile of junk)
Chapter Seven
..."Time to start thinking about electricity. Generators from hell. Generally speaking, if a generator will run as motor when hooked up to a battery it will also generate electricity...test spin both generators and find out they are actually putting out negative voltage. How can that be? Well I had flashed the field to establish the correct polarity way back when I started messing with this project, so that wasn't the problem. Now I began swapping field coils, field shoes, armatures, generator frames and brush assemblies in every conceivable combination. Nothing works...
Harley generators are not complicated pieces of machinery. An armature rotates between two soft iron shoes that are wrapped with the fine wire comprising the field coils. The soft iron shoes retain some residual magnetism to get the ball rolling, then as the coils of wire on the armature pass through the magnetic field of the field shoes an electric current is generated in the armature, the current is then conducted from the rotating armature to the rest of the motorcycle’s electrical system through the brushes. The current is regulated by controlling the strength of the magnetic field in the field shoes, a job that falls to the voltage regulator. One down and dirty test for an HD generator is to bypass the regulator by grounding the field. Harley generators don’t put out a helluva lot of juice to begin with so it is usually safe to bypass the voltage regulator by grounding the field, just don’t rev the engine up or you'll blow the light bulbs. Not much to the system.
As much as I hate to, I’m buying a new one with a built in regulator...gets rid of the regulator and associated wiring, so that cleans things up quite a bit too...
I've been looking for generator drive gears. Remember my previous bitch on how the V-Twin gear from J&P was looser than a crack whore on Saturday night in front of a pile of rock?...I took one more look at eBay and finally found a guy selling a NOS HD drive gear. I won the auction and few days later the gear showed up in a sealed HD plastic bag. My hands trembling with anticipation, I opened the bag and tried it on my new 300 dollar plus generator with built in regulator... and... success!!! I went from gears looser than a crack whore to one tighter than a nun. Finally, on the fifth try, I found a good gear. At last I was able to bolt a gear to the generator and plug that big hole in the side of the engine. That all happened two days ago. Why was the drive gear such a big deal? I put together a lot of generators and never really paid much attention to the drive gear and I probably wouldn't have this time. Except... that my new 300 dollar plus change generator has a big warning in the box that the two year warranty would be null and void if the armature was damaged by a loose fitting drive gear. I wasn't about to fuck up a 300 dollar part by putting a bad gear on it."
See more of the ironhead saga here:

http://www.ironheadcycle.com/pages/howto7.htm

From Cycle Electric for their DGV-2569 model 65A 12 volt generator (Stock O.E.M.1965-1981 Model 65A 12 volt generator. Will fit 1936 to 1984)

CAUTION!!
Improper gear fitting will cause shaft damage not covered warranty!

The gear should be a press fit on the armature shaft. If you can slide your gear all the way on and off by hand, it is too loose.

The inside bore of the large end of the gear should be no larger then .5190. The generator shaft should be .5191 to .5199. This makes a light to moderate press fit.

There are a lot of oversized after market gears that fit loose on the shaft. A loose gear will slide and rock back and forth on the shaft. The gear is harder than the shaft. A loose gear will wear out the generator armature shaft.
Use original stock gear whenever possible.

http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/65A%20Insert.htm

Cycle Electric Technical Documents
Cycle Electric Inc. offers the following documents to help technicians track down electrical problems.
In the past this section presented information in random paragraphs.
In an attempt to organize it we have broken the information up into documents on different subjects. Most of them where written as articles that ran in Iron Works magazine and go into more detail on each subject.
You may need to read more than one document to find what you need to know.

http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/index.html

If the following simple procedure can't fix your problem, you can safely assume your problem can't be fixed:
Troubleshooting Flow Chart

[tunacantom]

Update time!

I've made some decent progress since the last time I posted. I was out of the country for a few weeks, so when I got back I really started to put work in to hopefully paint it before summer time hits. First off, I fixed my electrical issues...by buying a new cycle electric gen/reg combo for the bike. Seemed like my old gen was tired and didn't want to output enough volts for the reg to process into some of that good, good 12V DC.

Next, the top triple tree I welded up cracked again...almost immediately...but that's what I get for trying to weld cast aluminum. Oh well, grabbed the top tree off my old front end, shaved her down, and polished it up. (Mother's Aluminum Polish does wonders).



With the now fully functioning electrics I could start riding the bike a little more without fear of being rear-ended. Even used it to commute to school for a few weeks.



With everything looking and riding solid, it was just about time to tear it all apart and start prepping for paint. Before I started disassembly I rode to a pretty cool show put on by Madhouse Motors in Cambridge, MA. Was pouring rain and cold. Tossed on a snowboard jacket, a bubble shield, and some rain pants and had a fun, sketchy ride there in the rain with @Scuba_Sheen (It also happened to be Sean's maiden voyage...we both made it there and back).



The day after the show I went down to my dad's shop and stripped it down.



Tear down also happened right around the time my summer semester started at school so my free time to work on it went back down...