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Thread: '67 Iron Chop

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtygrotonscoundrel View Post
    In connecticut you do not need a title for anything over 25 years old, a bill of sale is all it would take to swap ownership. Since you bought it in CT that is the law of the land and MA should eb able to register that for you with just a bill of sale.

    Not that I am saying to forge government documents, but I know I have heard of people simply putting the information from the title on a CT Bill of Sale and accidentally signing in both places.

    I hear that it has worked multiple times with no issue, as long as you can get someone to run the vin and make sure nobody else out there is holding a registration.

    For the record, I have done this multiple times with no issue. I know it is not the ideal way but it's really more like the bending of the truth, rather than a full fabrication.

    Hopefully that can help with your title issue.
    Thanks for the info. I ended up getting Facebook guy to request a duplicate and sign it over into my name. Bike is now legally mine and registered.

    As far as the whole bill of sale thing goes, I know that's true, but the last person to hold a registration on the bike was in MA which is why I was hesitant. As soon as I would try to reg in MA it would flag that it was still legally owned by Facebook guy.

    It might have worked, I'm really not sure. I just ended up being able to get the duplicate and do it that way.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    Hummmmmm ...

    .../// https://youtu.be/LT8Obu9mH8Y \\\...

    F-O-R-D = F u*kin O ld R ebuilt D odge ...
    That's gotta be terrifying. Driving anything where you're sitting in front/on the front axle is already sketchy enough. If we end up doing any heavy modifications to ours it'll be to make it low 'n slow.

  3. #23

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    So I'm already back with more updates. At some point during my test rides I managed to crack the top triple tree. I have no idea why or how it would have happened the way it did. Probably just old metal in combination with some rake catching up to it...

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    Regardless, I'm just happy it wasn't a more catastrophic failure. I still have the other trees from the 35mm I pulled off, so my plan was to swap that top tree on when it came time to paint.

    But today after work I was bored and had some motivation in me, so I figured I may as well try my luck as slinging a good 'ole bead of aluminum on there and smoothing it out. Came out pretty good, it has a slight wave to it now, but that's because I tried to build up some material to strengthen it a little bit...

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    In other news, I checked the tracking info on the block mount style foot pegs I ordered from JP for mock up, and they should be in tomorrow. This means I'll hopefully be getting the passenger and highway peg mounts all fabbed and welded up this weekend. After that it shouldn't be too much more tweaking before I'm ready to re-prime and start seriously thinking colors.
    Last edited by tunacantom; 04-10-2018 at 3:14 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunacantom View Post
    That's gotta be terrifying. Driving anything where you're sitting in front/on the front axle is already sketchy enough. If we end up doing any heavy modifications to ours it'll be to make it low 'n slow.
    That truck is sitting 9 miles up the road from me in "Don Garlits' Museum"



    And it kinda looks like you have been doing some Wheel Standing too ....

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunacantom View Post
    We're almost up to speed now but there's a little more to go...
    So I slapped some wiring on the Iron to rip it up the road and...nothing. Couldn't get anything out of the lights. So I grabbed my multimeter and started probing around the gen and reg...still nothing. My spirits were slightly crushed, but I knew how long it had been sitting so I buckled down, ripped the gen off, and pulled it apart. It was pretty dirty, but nothing was physically wrong with it. I bench tested it and it spun when given power. I drenched it in contact cleaner and put it back together in hopes for better results...nothing...
    When I went to the shop the next day...no luck. I started to think the gen or the reg was no good and was ready to just order one of the Cycle Electric combos.
    My dad decided we should test it one more time; and, this time I got some very low voltage coming off. I had him give it more throttle, and it rose, we did this until ~4k RPM when all of a sudden the lights turned on and the voltage jumped right to where it should have been. And when he let off the throttle and let it go back to idle, everything stayed on.
    This is exactly how the bike is running to date. I have no idea why. Start the bike, nothing, give it a good rev, everything turns on and stays on until I shut the bike off. I have polarized the gen a few times, cleaned everything, and asked a few of my dad's friends and no one has anything to say other than "gen is toast." But it works good enough for test drives so I'm taking it for now.

    That delayed lighting on is kinda strange - no old 'Lucas' parts mixed in there?(LOL).
    Makes me think of somethin' like a 'sticky' diode - not lettin' power through it until it reaches the full charge rate - are ya' runnin' a separate circuit breaker for the lighting? If so, what if you were to stick an inline fuse in as a fun test. Might be too simple, but hey, sometimes simple is good; did you measure voltage to other systems while runnin', before snappin' the throttle to get lights lit up? What is voltage to coil at idle when first starting bike? If voltage was low there, you would think an ignition problem may also be a result...hhmmm. What kind of switch ya got for the lights?

    Might be a few clues in this article, (which ya probably already read) but note several references to the Factory Manual - ya got one?

    http://odenmotorshop.com/2013/12/ironmicks-complete-guide-to-troubleshooting-ironhead-electrical-problems/
    1. Fully charge battery.
    4. Charging System Test:
    Measure the voltage with the bike idling at about 2000 to 3000 RPM. It should be at least 1.0 volts higher than the not-running reading, otherwise the charging system is not charging the battery. It should be at least 13.x, preferably 14.x
    5. Regulator Test:
    Disconnect the regulator. Connect your ohmmeter to the orange and tan wires. Note the reading. Reverse the connections. Note the reading. One reading should show continuity, the other should show no continuity. If the regulator does not pass this test it is no good. This test only tests one circuit in the regulator, so even if it passes this test it may still be no good. There are other tests of the regulator that require specialized equipment. These tests are in the factory and Clymer manuals...
    6. Generator Test #1: Residual Magnetism
    7. Generator Test #2: Maximum Output
    8. Here’s a good way to bench test your generator:
    9. Polarizing the Generator
    10. Polarizing the Generator – The Complete Story
    11. Generator Brushes Assembly: Dismantle, Cleaning, Repair

    From XL Forum: Ironhead Probably a stupid Voltage Regulator question
    http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/a...t-1085926.html
    "...after 1965 the model 65a generators were used..."
    thread OP says,"I have a Cycle Electric regulator", so info may not be completely relevant.

    Another XL Forum thread, 11 pages: IronHead Charging System Checkout
    thread starts out with same 'guide to troubleshooting' info above, but lots of pages after that
    http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...ad.php?t=39146

    Lotsa Ironhead Technical threads here; Technical Stickys Index - TuneUps, ReBuilds, Etc, Etc, Etc
    http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...d.php?t=465866

    and here: Thread: (1977)ironhead regulator issues help
    http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27279

    and here: Thread: Ironhead generator
    http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5041

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    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 04-11-2018 at 6:55 AM. Reason: added 'diode'

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    That delayed lighting on is kinda strange - no old 'Lucas' parts mixed in there?(LOL).
    Makes me think of somethin'...
    Thank for all the information. The bike is magneto so the only thing being powered off the generator is the lights. I'm also not running a battery. As of right now the lights are wired directly from the Cycle Electric reg. No fuses, no breakers, nothing fancy (going to add in-lines when I wire after paint). I followed both the troubleshooting guide you posted above and the troubleshooting guide in the manual I have (almost identical). I haven't seen any of those other threads so I'll take a look through them when I have time.

    I did test the system, but when I did I wasn't looking for specific numbers, at that time I was just hoping to see some sort of reading other than 0 on the multimeter. I'll re-test everything this weekend and get some numbers and report back.
    Last edited by tunacantom; 04-11-2018 at 4:34 AM.

  7. #27
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    Oh ya, forgot about that mag; "First off, the mag was on backwards, second off, the mag was toast. My guy got the bike to start one time with the mag in that state before telling me it was fucked. I was dissapointed, but it happens. I had him box the mag up and ship it to Morris who agreed it was fucked. They rebuilt it almost completely and sent it back."
    With no battery, are you using a capacitor in its place?

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    Oh ya, forgot about that mag; "First off, the mag was on backwards, second off, the mag was toast. My guy got the bike to start one time with the mag in that state before telling me it was fucked. I was dissapointed, but it happens. I had him box the mag up and ship it to Morris who agreed it was fucked. They rebuilt it almost completely and sent it back."
    With no battery, are you using a capacitor in its place?
    No capacitor in it's place. I may try to toss one on. From what I've understood, the capacitor is only NEEDED if you're not running a mag. Otherwise the only purpose it serves is to smooth out the flow and make the lights less flickery.

    I'm starting to think the Cycle Electric reg that's on there might just be no good. Might try to give them a shout and see if they have any sort of troubleshooting guide for them.

  9. #29
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    Looks like you are not the only one with an ironhead generator problem; found this site which I thought may be a solution, but just describes a problem - but one item to note was the concern of a loose generator drive gear - could yours be slipping on the shaft on startup?

    How to Build a Sportster
    (from a pile of junk)
    Chapter Seven
    ..."Time to start thinking about electricity. Generators from hell. Generally speaking, if a generator will run as motor when hooked up to a battery it will also generate electricity...test spin both generators and find out they are actually putting out negative voltage. How can that be? Well I had flashed the field to establish the correct polarity way back when I started messing with this project, so that wasn't the problem. Now I began swapping field coils, field shoes, armatures, generator frames and brush assemblies in every conceivable combination. Nothing works...
    Harley generators are not complicated pieces of machinery. An armature rotates between two soft iron shoes that are wrapped with the fine wire comprising the field coils. The soft iron shoes retain some residual magnetism to get the ball rolling, then as the coils of wire on the armature pass through the magnetic field of the field shoes an electric current is generated in the armature, the current is then conducted from the rotating armature to the rest of the motorcycle’s electrical system through the brushes. The current is regulated by controlling the strength of the magnetic field in the field shoes, a job that falls to the voltage regulator. One down and dirty test for an HD generator is to bypass the regulator by grounding the field. Harley generators don’t put out a helluva lot of juice to begin with so it is usually safe to bypass the voltage regulator by grounding the field, just don’t rev the engine up or you'll blow the light bulbs. Not much to the system.
    As much as I hate to, I’m buying a new one with a built in regulator...gets rid of the regulator and associated wiring, so that cleans things up quite a bit too...
    I've been looking for generator drive gears. Remember my previous bitch on how the V-Twin gear from J&P was looser than a crack whore on Saturday night in front of a pile of rock?...I took one more look at eBay and finally found a guy selling a NOS HD drive gear. I won the auction and few days later the gear showed up in a sealed HD plastic bag. My hands trembling with anticipation, I opened the bag and tried it on my new 300 dollar plus generator with built in regulator... and... success!!! I went from gears looser than a crack whore to one tighter than a nun. Finally, on the fifth try, I found a good gear. At last I was able to bolt a gear to the generator and plug that big hole in the side of the engine. That all happened two days ago. Why was the drive gear such a big deal? I put together a lot of generators and never really paid much attention to the drive gear and I probably wouldn't have this time. Except... that my new 300 dollar plus change generator has a big warning in the box that the two year warranty would be null and void if the armature was damaged by a loose fitting drive gear. I wasn't about to fuck up a 300 dollar part by putting a bad gear on it."

    See more of the ironhead saga here:
    http://www.ironheadcycle.com/pages/howto7.htm

    From Cycle Electric for their DGV-2569 model 65A 12 volt generator (Stock O.E.M.1965-1981 Model 65A 12 volt generator. Will fit 1936 to 1984)

    CAUTION!!
    Improper gear fitting will cause shaft damage not covered warranty!

    The gear should be a press fit on the armature shaft. If you can slide your gear all the way on and off by hand, it is too loose.

    The inside bore of the large end of the gear should be no larger then .5190. The generator shaft should be .5191 to .5199. This makes a light to moderate press fit.

    There are a lot of oversized after market gears that fit loose on the shaft. A loose gear will slide and rock back and forth on the shaft. The gear is harder than the shaft. A loose gear will wear out the generator armature shaft.
    Use original stock gear whenever possible.
    http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/65A%20Insert.htm
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    Cycle Electric Technical Documents
    Cycle Electric Inc. offers the following documents to help technicians track down electrical problems.
    In the past this section presented information in random paragraphs.
    In an attempt to organize it we have broken the information up into documents on different subjects. Most of them where written as articles that ran in Iron Works magazine and go into more detail on each subject.
    You may need to read more than one document to find what you need to know.
    http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/index.html


    If the following simple procedure can't fix your problem, you can safely assume your problem can't be fixed:
    Troubleshooting Flow Chart
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  10. #30

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    Update time!

    I've made some decent progress since the last time I posted. I was out of the country for a few weeks, so when I got back I really started to put work in to hopefully paint it before summer time hits. First off, I fixed my electrical issues...by buying a new cycle electric gen/reg combo for the bike. Seemed like my old gen was tired and didn't want to output enough volts for the reg to process into some of that good, good 12V DC.

    Next, the top triple tree I welded up cracked again...almost immediately...but that's what I get for trying to weld cast aluminum. Oh well, grabbed the top tree off my old front end, shaved her down, and polished it up. (Mother's Aluminum Polish does wonders).

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    With the now fully functioning electrics I could start riding the bike a little more without fear of being rear-ended. Even used it to commute to school for a few weeks.

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    With everything looking and riding solid, it was just about time to tear it all apart and start prepping for paint. Before I started disassembly I rode to a pretty cool show put on by Madhouse Motors in Cambridge, MA. Was pouring rain and cold. Tossed on a snowboard jacket, a bubble shield, and some rain pants and had a fun, sketchy ride there in the rain with @Scuba_Sheen (It also happened to be Sean's maiden voyage...we both made it there and back).

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    The day after the show I went down to my dad's shop and stripped it down.

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    Tear down also happened right around the time my summer semester started at school so my free time to work on it went back down...

  11. #31

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    ...but I didn't let school COMPLETELY stop productivity. I've been slowly chipping away at paint prep. So far I've gone over all the welds on the frame to clean it up, sanded all the rust off, did a little molding, and put in quite a few hours into shaping the sissy bar so it's got smooth transitions.

    There used to be holes in this fender mount...
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    Smooooothed out sissy bar...
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    I also tacked the brake lever to strengthen it up a bit...almost had the bushing pull out on me before...
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    And that's where I'm at. I'm hoping to finalize a color soon and get this puppy sprayed. I also may or may not have picked up a sweet, long girder front end for this...but we'll save that for later

  12. #32
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    Good to see ya out ridin' it! Glad to hear ya' got the electrical workin' good. Did you figure out what may have caused the top tree to crack in the first place? Or the second time? Did the crack go right through that piece? Maybe that can be a chance to practice and put another weld on it - found this which may help as a refresher:
    Things to do to make a cast aluminum weld repair go better

    - 3 c's Clean...Clean...Clean
    - Preheat part to around 200f
    - Carbide burrs designed for aluminum are best bet for grooving out cracks but grinding wheels work too ( Sometimes I use Irish Spring bar soap to prevent loading of a grinding or sanding disc)
    -if you have AC balance, a setting of 65 or less EN helps ( since some machines have use a scale of cleaning on AC balance, a setting of around 35% cleaning works good)
    - Sometimes you have to be willing to remove crapped up weld metal...the next pass usually goes better after you do this.
    - A cleaning pass helps...where you allow the cleaning action of the arc to etch the surface before you actually puddle the metal.
    - think braze...use a forward and back torch motion to gently flow weld metal ahead using just enough amperage to flow the puddle
    - 4047 weld rod can really help but it is slightly softer than 4043.
    - 4047 usually gets less porosity so that can help on things like polished crankcases
    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...m-welding.html

    Just wondering if the crack was a result of something is out of alignment, or stressed out there - beside the pilot thinkin' about a crack in the tree...sounds like time to get that "sweet, long girder front end" on there!

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post

    Just wondering if the crack was a result of something is out of alignment, or stressed out there - beside the pilot thinkin' about a crack in the tree...sounds like time to get that "sweet, long girder front end" on there!
    I have a feeling the original crack formed before my purchasing of the front end (could be due to length with no brace, lots of side to side/twisting due to flop). I'll probably give another wack at welding it up, though. This time I'm going to fill in the window behind that little bridge for some added strength.

    As far as the girder goes, I plan on running that when the bike is back together as long as it's not too long. It's coming with a sweet little 19" Hallcraft wheel too so that might help soak up some of the difference in length from my 21"

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    Also, got an update from my dad, everything is primed and ready for a little finish sanding. Then hopefully paint time.

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  14. #34
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    That front end looks good. Cool that the Hallcraft sticker is still on the small brake drum. What is the length of the girder leg; from centre of axle to center of top pivot point on the leg?

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    That front end looks good. Cool that the Hallcraft sticker is still on the small brake drum. What is the length of the girder leg; from centre of axle to center of top pivot point on the leg?
    "41in from top to axle" is what the seller said. If I did my math right, and I probably didn't, I'm guessing that'd put me right around 12-14" over compared to stock. I'm at 8" over now. Plus the girder looks like it might have a tad of rake built in. I think it'll work out nicely...that or I'll just need to unbend my kickstand a little bit.

  16. #36
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    According to Paul Durfee of Durfee girders, he based stock length from the leg on the Indian Scout, which was 24"; so following that, ya got a +17" over girder - But, the seller said "from the top" - did you measure it? How does the length of it compare to your tube fork front end? How are you thinkin', "...it might have a tad of rake built in."?

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    According to Paul Durfee of Durfee girders, he based stock length from the leg on the Indian Scout, which was 24"; so following that, ya got a +17" over girder - But, the seller said "from the top" - did you measure it? How does the length of it compare to your tube fork front end? How are you thinkin', "...it might have a tad of rake built in."?
    Purchased over the internet. Couldn't measure myself. I also couldn't measure my front end because I'm away from the bike. From what I've learned, though, Iron's are roughly 22" from axle to lower neck cup stock, add about 7" for the length of the neck...puts it at 29"...41"-29"=12". All pretty rough guesses, but I think as long as the girder is less than 6" longer than what I'm running it should be fine.

    The bit of rake that I'm thinking comes from a photo of a bike with the same girder on it. Looks like it kicks forward a TAD more than the neck angle (I zoomed and tossed a straightedge on my screen)...might just be an illusion. Either way it should be good.

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  18. #38
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    Cool, looks almost the same as this '64 XLH, with about 40* rake:
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    http://www.ironhead-bobbers.com/iron...ork_by_Ron.php
    sometimes illusions are good...
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 05-31-2018 at 10:54 PM. Reason: added rake

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