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  1. #1
    HandsomeZack
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    Default Delco whitworth sockets?

    Hey guys quick question hoping someone can help me with. I bought my pops a set of whitworth sockets for xmas so he could work on his 78 bonneville. I was gonna get him the set by koken from lowbrow as I know theyre good quality, but they were sold out. I found what I thought was the same set on ebay (8 pc 12 point 3/8 set) for a similar price and bought them. But today i got them and they are labeled DELCO and not koken. Google was unable to tell me anything about this brand, does anyone know anything about it? Is it cheap chinese set I should return or is it of decent quality? Thanks

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    Post a pic. It's easy to tell with clear pics of the socket opening and marking on the sides. If they look good they're likely fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeZack View Post
    Hey guys quick question hoping someone can help me with. I bought my pops a set of whitworth sockets for xmas so he could work on his 78 bonneville. I was gonna get him the set by koken from lowbrow as I know theyre good quality, but they were sold out. I found what I thought was the same set on ebay (8 pc 12 point 3/8 set) for a similar price and bought them. But today i got them and they are labeled DELCO and not koken. Google was unable to tell me anything about this brand, does anyone know anything about it? Is it cheap chinese set I should return or is it of decent quality? Thanks
    78 bonnevilles use unified fasteners, whitworth is not an AF size, it is a thread form, your father should do just fine with his usual inch sockets.

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    When did Triumph and other British makes stop using whitworth for fasteners?
    I'm finally in the reassembly stage of my '64 Tiger Cub build and have been looking at a TR6 next but am hoping to avoid whitworth honestly. In the event of a breakdown away from home or my personal toolkit it'd be nice to be able to repair the bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loganyoung View Post
    When did Triumph and other British makes stop using whitworth for fasteners?
    I'm finally in the reassembly stage of my '64 Tiger Cub build and have been looking at a TR6 next but am hoping to avoid whitworth honestly. In the event of a breakdown away from home or my personal toolkit it'd be nice to be able to repair the bike.
    Triumph started changing over to unified fasteners around 1969, although unified wrenches fit most of the bolts on my 67.. some are definitely whitworth across-flats though. Ita quite a short span of sizes needed to do everything on these bikes, you can find the needed wrenches cheap at autojumbles and usually better fit and quality than new stuff.

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    And triumph did Not use whitworth threads in the 60's, it was BSC, BSF and other British Standard thread forms, from what i recall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by datadavid View Post
    Triumph started changing over to unified fasteners around 1969, although unified wrenches fit most of the bolts on my 67.. some are definitely whitworth across-flats though. Ita quite a short span of sizes needed to do everything on these bikes, you can find the needed wrenches cheap at autojumbles and usually better fit and quality than new stuff.
    Here is some info from the Classic British Motorcycles website for the Bonneville:

    1966 also marked the beginning of the process of replacing all the old British Standard (Whitworth) nuts & bolts with Unified (American) threads. Over the next several model years there would be an odd mix of British & American threads.
    1967: Internal changes were made to the transmission (gearbox) including a new 2nd-gear shift fork & a near-total conversion over from British Standard threads to Unified (American) threads.
    1969: Numerous smaller changes were made to the pushrod tubes, the oil pump and the continuing conversion over to Unified threads (American) from British Standard (Whitworth).
    1970: Unified or UNF (American) threads continued to work their way through the engine & the entire motorcycles.
    http://www.classic-british-motorcycl...onneville.html
    Links for the TR-6 info, along with other models and makes also accessible from that site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeZack View Post
    Hey guys quick question hoping someone can help me with. I bought my pops a set of whitworth sockets for xmas so he could work on his 78 bonneville. I was gonna get him the set by koken from lowbrow as I know theyre good quality, but they were sold out. I found what I thought was the same set on ebay (8 pc 12 point 3/8 set) for a similar price and bought them. But today i got them and they are labeled DELCO and not koken. Google was unable to tell me anything about this brand, does anyone know anything about it? Is it cheap chinese set I should return or is it of decent quality? Thanks
    Whitworth one or two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by datadavid View Post
    And triumph did Not use whitworth threads in the 60's, it was BSC, BSF and other British Standard thread forms, from what i recall.
    There were Whitworth #1 and Whitworth #2 sizes.

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    Oh nuts - dem brits...
    This is some interesting history:

    Whitwhat?: The Whitworth System
    Threaded fasteners go back a long way. In 1568, the first practical screw cutting machine was invented by a French mathematician named Jacques Besson...This happy chaos continued until well into the industrial revolution, when Henry Maudslay perfected a lathe that made it possible to adjust the thread pitch of a screw...In 1850 a man from New York named William Ward perfected a system for forming the threads on a bolt by heating it to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit, and then rolling it between two grooved dies...
    The man responsible for the development of the first standards for the production of threaded fasteners Is none other than Joseph Whitworth.
    In 1841, his paper, “A Uniform System of Screw Threads”, set forth a concept that was to revolutionize manufacturing.
    His idea was simple:

    - Each diameter of bolt or screw will have its own number of threads per inch (TPI)
    - The angle between the side of one thread and the adjacent thread should be 55°.
    - Both the crest and root of each thread should be rounded.
    - The relationship of the pitch to the radius of the rounded portion of the thread is defined by a ratio of l/6th; in other words, the radius r = (1/6) x (pitch).

    The Whitworth System was used as proposed for bolts and screws from 1/8″ to 4 1/4″ in shank diameter up to 1908, when an additional thread form was proposed—British Standard Fine (BSF)...

    For sizes smaller than 1/8″, the British adopted a Swiss Standard thread form for small screws and called it British Association Thread (BA). This thread form was adopted in 1903...

    The Whitworth system is further complicated by its tool size designations. American tools (and European for that matter) are sized by the head of the bolt or the size of the nut. A 1/2″ wrench fits a bolt with a head 1/2″ across. A Whitworth wrench is sized according to the diameter of the shank of the bolt, not the head. A 1/4 W (Whitworth) wrench is actually a bit larger than a 1/2″ American wrench—0.525″ to 0.500″.
    As if that wasn’t enough, in 1924 it was decided that the heads of the Whitworth bolts were too large, so they were down-sized...
    Read the rest of the story here: http://www.mossmotoring.com/whitworth-system/

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    Oh nuts - dem brits...
    This is some interesting history:

    Whitwhat?: The Whitworth System
    Threaded fasteners go back a long way. In 1568, the first practical screw cutting machine was invented by a French mathematician named Jacques Besson...This happy chaos continued until well into the industrial revolution, when Henry Maudslay perfected a lathe that made it possible to adjust the thread pitch of a screw...In 1850 a man from New York named William Ward perfected a system for forming the threads on a bolt by heating it to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit, and then rolling it between two grooved dies...
    The man responsible for the development of the first standards for the production of threaded fasteners Is none other than Joseph Whitworth.
    In 1841, his paper, “A Uniform System of Screw Threads”, set forth a concept that was to revolutionize manufacturing.
    His idea was simple:

    - Each diameter of bolt or screw will have its own number of threads per inch (TPI)
    - The angle between the side of one thread and the adjacent thread should be 55°.
    - Both the crest and root of each thread should be rounded.
    - The relationship of the pitch to the radius of the rounded portion of the thread is defined by a ratio of l/6th; in other words, the radius r = (1/6) x (pitch).

    The Whitworth System was used as proposed for bolts and screws from 1/8″ to 4 1/4″ in shank diameter up to 1908, when an additional thread form was proposed—British Standard Fine (BSF)...

    For sizes smaller than 1/8″, the British adopted a Swiss Standard thread form for small screws and called it British Association Thread (BA). This thread form was adopted in 1903...

    The Whitworth system is further complicated by its tool size designations. American tools (and European for that matter) are sized by the head of the bolt or the size of the nut. A 1/2″ wrench fits a bolt with a head 1/2″ across. A Whitworth wrench is sized according to the diameter of the shank of the bolt, not the head. A 1/4 W (Whitworth) wrench is actually a bit larger than a 1/2″ American wrench—0.525″ to 0.500″.
    As if that wasn’t enough, in 1924 it was decided that the heads of the Whitworth bolts were too large, so they were down-sized...
    Read the rest of the story here: http://www.mossmotoring.com/whitworth-system/
    Old Gold! Thanks for posting.

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