How can I have a one kick bike?

[datadavid]

Excuse me, but mikuni jets are not numbered backwards, or maybe i dont understand what you mean? Orifice size rise with the numbers. Difference is Amals are flow rated(200 main flows 200cc's per minute)
But i dont fully understand the difference between bs (round)and vm (hex) jets. Checked some with my jet reamers and hole sizes and numbers differed slightly.

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

The numbering system can be interpreted several ways,,, When the OP gets the Mikuni-SUDCO tuning manual this explains it in detail, (Same with the victory library book as well) But I was talking in specifics to the idle jet. On many carbs, a bigger number means more flow, but Mikunis do it differently or OPPOSITE,, so pay attention to the numbering system. In this case ( I might be Bass-ackwards) But IIRC a bigger idel jet means more air and is leaner. Where other carbs a bigger jet # would be richer. Just follow the manual, it makes it really clear.

But theres other issues as well, Which I was not talking about, but since you brought it up and someone might get the wrong idea
then it should be mentioned.
See: http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/t500_files/mikuni.pdf

This guy gets into the meat of the matter,, (Good to know)

[Tricky13]

I'm running an old clapped out amal with boyer . As long as it's tickled it fires first kick, its all set up and in my case luck!

British bikes like to have plenty of fuel for start up, that's the advantage with Amals, Mikunis are great carbs and are a lot smoother on twins and triples but no tickler, as long as there is a good spark your fine, my T160 will fire pretty much first time every time, with the Amals flooded and it has Lucas RITA ignition which is a wasted spark system.

[Tattooo]

my T160 will fire pretty much first time every time, with the Amals flooded and it has Lucas RITA ignition which is a wasted spark system.

Yep I totally agree..... That's the same thing as a prime kick..... How many times does it take if you don't flood the carbs????????

[Nanonevol]

Thanks for the link to the Victory site. I ordered the Mikuni Super Tuning file. Not sure of the significance but Boyer Bransden is wasted spark as well, no?

[Tricky13]

Yep I totally agree..... That's the same thing as a prime kick..... How many times does it take if you don't flood the carbs????????

Never really bothered to try as if i don't leave the fuel tap on the float chambers will be half empty anyway, so unless i am starting it within 5 mins of stopping it will always need a tickle.

[Tattooo]

Never really bothered to try as if i don't leave the fuel tap on the float chambers will be half empty anyway, so unless i am starting it within 5 mins of stopping it will always need a tickle.

I don't blame you for not trying, I was just wondering if you had???

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

Thanks for the link to the Victory site. I ordered the Mikuni Super Tuning file. Not sure of the significance but Boyer Bransden is wasted spark as well, no?

Correct, The Boyer is ALSO a wasted Spark, I am not sure if there finally is a single fire ignition for British twins yet, but all the electronic ignitions I am aware of are all wasted spark, Which is not as bad as it seems. On a HD I totally support going to a single fire system. I have played with a few of the Lucas Ritas and they are okay but they were a bit overly complicated compared to a Boyer and a lot more wiring and stuff so not as appealing on a stripped down custom. Over the years I know some guys who really preferred the Rita and used to be a couple real good resources for support, parts and tech for them on several other forums but most faded away. I am not knocking the Rita
(lovely Rita-Meter maid) but for the average guy the Boyer makes more sense.
My friend Veli in Finland is complaining that after 25 years and 200,000 miles on his Triumph that he has to replace his Boyer and while it still works, he is upgrading to a newer unit. The newer units are less voltage sensitive. Its common to see guys with the older boyers rev their engines or switch off the lights if the charging system was not in top shape. New models will run on as low as 8 volts without cutting out.

There are high output charging systems that eliminate many of the problems the original charging systems had, especially at low RPMs, I used to have a shop customer I finally got rid of (Happy day) and he did not understand the concepts. He lived in the city and rode stop light to stop light. His system never put out enough current to support full lighting, turn signals (1971 Bonnie, mostly stock) Ignition & Charging. At my shop I was out in the country side and would get up some speed and RPMS, no problems. I tried explaining it and also how the pilot lights worked on the stock bikes. The factory back in 71 had it setup and instructed owners that in city traffic to use the pilot light which was a small bulb with low demands on the system. Once the revs rose a bit or you left the city then switch to full lights. Jon never accepted that and blamed the mechanic. You can now buy high output altenators and stators that will run everything and even heated grips and vest.

[Nanonevol]

Interesting. My bike's CL description said it has a 3 stage charging system of some sort. Obviously I know little about these things yet but it sure sound like a good thing. Starting seems easier with the NGK plugs compared to the Autolites, I think but I'm still using the prime kick method.
Meanwhile, I have the literature and it's all good but doesn't answer all my questions. For example, I was all set to blast down the street for the first time today when I noticed I was creating a puddle. Gas was pouring out the the tube that comes from the bottom of the bowl of the right hand carb. Now I'll definitely be taking them apart. Can anyone tell me what's going on with this?
One thing I learned is that if the mixture screw is set at only half a turn out one should go to a larger size pilot so I could make this change as well.

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

Sounds like a sticking float, check the fuel source and flush it, a bit of dirt or rust or just crappy fuel (Any fuel with oxygeneated which is with ethanol is crappy fuel) can cause this. pull the float needle and flush out, check float operation. If the floats are not set right it will also run rich (Smoke and fouled plugs).

What size jets do you have? What does the literature tell you? Thats the point of having the data, check all the settings and jets, slide, needle etc.
"Setting up the VM Mikuni's for a British twin is not difficult. The following list is a starting point, make adjustments as required by road testing.

On a 650/750 Twin (Triumph &/or Norton) for a PAIR of Mikuni VM's 32mm dia, use pilot 20-25, throttle slide 2.5, needle jet type 159, needle jet size P-2, P-4, needle 6DH2, 3, or 4, Main 220-230, air jet 1.0.

On a 850 Norton for a SINGLE Mikuni VM 34mm dia, use pilot 30-35, throttle slide 3, needle jet type 159, needle jet size P-4, P-6, needle 6DH3 or 4, Main 260, air jet 1.0."

On a cold bike, use the enrichener levers, and one kick (NO Throttle). Should start EVERY time like that

[Tattooo]

Sounds like a sticking float, check the fuel source and flush it, a bit of dirt or rust or just crappy fuel (Any fuel with oxygeneated which is with ethanol is crappy fuel) can cause this. pull the float needle and flush out, check float operation. If the floats are not set right it will also run rich (Smoke and fouled plugs).

What size jets do you have? What does the literature tell you? Thats the point of having the data, check all the settings and jets, slide, needle etc.
"Setting up the VM Mikuni's for a British twin is not difficult. The following list is a starting point, make adjustments as required by road testing.

On a 650/750 Twin (Triumph &/or Norton) for a PAIR of Mikuni VM's 32mm dia, use pilot 20-25, throttle slide 2.5, needle jet type 159, needle jet size P-2, P-4, needle 6DH2, 3, or 4, Main 220-230, air jet 1.0.

On a 850 Norton for a SINGLE Mikuni VM 34mm dia, use pilot 30-35, throttle slide 3, needle jet type 159, needle jet size P-4, P-6, needle 6DH3 or 4, Main 260, air jet 1.0."

On a cold bike, use the enrichener levers, and one kick (NO Throttle). Should start EVERY time like that

Only time will tell if he can create another freak of nature..........

By the way why are you taking about a Norton???? He doesn't have a Norton does he??????

[Nanonevol]

We'll see, but I won't consider it a freak of nature, nor your hand start Harley. Just a properly set up bike.

[Tattooo]

We'll see, but I won't consider it a freak of nature, nor your hand start Harley. Just a properly set up bike.

He can tout all these long winded this and that, that has nothing to do with your problems all he wants but, I'm just afraid he is setting you up for a fall..... That's all..... But I do wish you luck.....

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

Nanonevol: I am assuming you are still sorting out your carb issues. You now have all the info and tools to make this work so its just down to wrench time.

To address your comment about the Charging system, I might post up a tech post on what most people will run into on a bike like yours as well as typical parts used. But I suspect what you are talking about is called a 3 phase high output system. Early Triumphs (most up to 65) actually ran a 6v alternator, eventually 12v but they were all pretty weak systems.

"A gentleman does not motor about after dark" Joseph Lucas (Prince of Darkness)

So, Lucas did develop a high output system for electric start bikes, even those were a tad weak and they were called "Starting assist" So EMGO & Sparx came out with a high output system like the Lucas and often called a 3 phase system. Ill include pix in my tech post but basically the stator and rotor have more segments or poles, They use a solid state Reg/Rectifier but are wired different than the single phase charging systems. Original systems used a Zenor Diode and selenium rectifier, You dont want that.

I would also suggest checking timing if you have not already. I can illustrate how to do that with a timing light and pictures if you are not sure. Depending on the pistons and cams, and year of head each motor has a sweet spot, but with a Boyer its easy to time and once timed I loctite things down, mark the timing marks and forget about it. They really are very reliable. Check your battery well though, As I said, Older Boyers are really voltage sensitive, some batteries seem to check ok, (12v) but dont have any capacity (Amps) and that can cause problems as well.

[Nanonevol]

Thank you! The seller did mention that setting up the timing was a bear. I would like to check it with a timing light and learn how to do that
Meanwhile I'm absorbing all the Mikuni information and ordering some jets and a slide today. My pilot jets are already 40 but I'm going to try 45 given that the air screws are only 1/4 out and the starting issues. That puts me out of range of what I see others using but then again my VM's are only 30's and most seem to have 32's. And my slide cutaway is a lean one (2.0) compared to others who use 2.5 or more. It's all experimentation of course. I have to fiddle with my needles some more - I haven't figured out how to take them out of the slide so I don't know what they are yet. Lots of fun and it's raining so riding can wait.