Triumph T160 chopper to Bobber build.

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  • TriNortchopz
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2017
    • 3268

    #31
    ...high flow oil pumps...Not sure if any were made for the triples.
    Yup, available from a few distributors:

    HIGH CAPACITY OIL PUMP
    Click image for larger version

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    for fitting to all variations of the BSA/Triumph 3 cylinder engine...both the feed and scavenge pumping gears lengthened by 50%. Therefore the possible pumping capacity is increased by 50%. It should be noted that the pump will not in itself provide increased oil pressure, as this is controlled by the oil pressure relief valve...


    High capacity triple oil pump assy.
    Part number: 71-1351A Price: £385.00


    This is a good article:

    Oil Pumps
    ...the Triple oil pump, what can be done to improve it, and how to identify bad pattern pumps from possibly good original pumps...all original pumps have a date on the body. This dating comprises a month and year code, e.g. 10-72 for October 1972...Two basic styles of pump were used in original production, and are interchangeable in service...later T160 models were fitted with the large bore oil feed from oil tank to pump, and the matching hole in the back plate of the pump was larger to suit...it is mainly internal clearances that affect the efficiency of the pump...feed gears with an end clearance of .0008" to .0012", and scavenge gears with an end clearance of .0012" to .0018",
    Read full article here:


    And

    this is an interesting technical article about engine heat from Vintage Bike Magazine (some highlights pasted below):

    Engines and Heat
    INTAKE HEATING
    Let’s begin with the intake stroke, assuming that our engine of interest is operating at or near peak torque...This heating of the intake charge both helps and hinders...Turbulence promotes heat transfer.
    HEAT AND DETONATION
    There is a second reason why this gain in intake temperature is harmful to engine performance...
    REVERSE COOLING
    This raises another point...Cooling air passes through the exhaust-side fins and in doing so becomes hot. Then it flows on, to the intake side of the cylinder head, and this hot cooling air heats, rather than cools, the intake side of the head...
    EXHAUST VALVE TEMPERATURE
    As the intake air enters the combustion chamber, it encounters the glowing, red-hot exhaust valve. This heats the intake charge even more...In larger engines, the valves finally had to be internally cooled by partially filling a head-and-stem cavity with sodium. At operating temperature, the sodium became liquid and, sloshing back and forth between head and stem, carried excess heat out of the valve head, to the cooler stem. There, it could be conducted away into the valve guide. This in itself was a problem, because it caused oil in the guide clearance to coke, then seize the valve in the guide. During the early 1950s, Norton had to run a small exhaust-valve cooling radiator on its Manx racers, and BSA had to use a new, high-tech gas turbine alloy (Nimonic-80) in the exhaust valves of its Gold Star engines to prevent valve cupping from high-temperature creep...
    COMBUSTION SPEED AND POWER
    For these reasons, performance is better in engines with shorter combustion periods...If you can build an engine that needs less ignition timing for best torque, it will in general make more power and run cooler than combinations that require longer timing...the cylinder head runs much hotter than does the cylinder...
    DETONATION AND TEMPERATURE
    When an engine detonates – even slightly – its temperature begins to rise...(but) when an engine begins to detonate, its exhaust gas temperature (EGT) falls...
    COMPRESSION AND EGT
    ...The higher compression is raised, the cooler the exhaust valve and exhaust pipe will run...Harley tuner Don Tilley commented recently that at 11.5 compression, almost the entire header pipe of his Buell Harley engine became red-hot on the dyno. When he raised compression to over 13, only the first six inches of the pipe became red-hot...
    HEAT FLOW TO THE EXHAUST PORT
    ...about half of the heat that flows into an engine’s cylinder head is picked up from the exhaust port...
    REDUCING EXHAUST PORT SIZE
    ...engineers such as Jim Feuling have shown repeatedly that most engines do not need exhaust ports and valves as large as they have in stock form. Smaller ports of higher angle and more streamlined section flow just as well or better than stock size, and their smaller surface area further cools off high head temperatures...
    PISTON COOLING
    In air-cooled engines, piston-to-wall clearances should be as small as possible, so that piston heat can easily pass into the cooler wall...The less surface area of piston exposed to combustion heat, the cooler the piston will run, and that means, if at all possible to use the closest thing to a perfectly flat-topped piston...
    COATINGS?...
    by Kevin Cameron

    Read the full article here:
    If buildin' old school choppers was easy, anyone could do it... ain't nobody said it's gonna be easy...

    Comment

    • Tricky13
      Member
      • Mar 2017
      • 81

      #32
      Interesting about the "cant overcool British bikes" comment and in practice for me in the UK that doesn't ring true i cant remember the last time i had actual overheat problems with a British bike...in fact only a very small proportion of British bike ever had an oil cooler, the T150/160 only had them because the designer who also worked on the engine was American and they did some testing in the desert and thought it needed the extra cooling for that environment.

      I ran mine without a cooler with no problems i fitted a new Hyde pump when i rebuilt the engine and refreshed the bearings, i did not even notice any change in running temps when i did later fit one which was before i refreshed the bearings in an effort to bring oil pressure up by over cooling the oil...like i said pretty much all of the triples reputation for throwing rods is simply down to the main bearings becoming worn (often because of bad crank grinding alignment) and causing premature wear, this in turn drops the oil flow and pressure to the big end bearings which in turn causes seizure and breaking rods.

      Comment

      • Avon
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2018
        • 363

        #33
        My Tiger never over heated, I had a universal transmission fluid cooler I bought from JC Whitney. Had it hanging off a tab where the air box once hung. And the summers get so hot in the Swamplands of Louisiana, you can leave tire tracks, and foot prints, in the asphalt.

        Comment

        • Hoghead
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2015
          • 2580

          #34
          ^^ Damn that sounds hot! Mind you, we've had a long hot summer this year in England .60w oil in the shovel, and glad of the oil cooler for the 104 c.i. Sputhe mill.
          Tricky- WRT to the ride and our roads -could you change the frame to incorporate rear suspension? You could try Joe at Fenland Choppers . John at Cobra MCs in Gosport makes beautiful frames too-his work on my bikes has been stellar. Seems a shame to part with your friends old ride.
          Last edited by Hoghead; 10-21-2018, 2:47 AM.

          Comment

          • farmall
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2013
            • 9983

            #35
            You can decide why you own it and if it's provided enough fun to pass on. A bro's a bro but all of us end up pushing daisies and someone else will own it sooner or later. Perhaps the very nice build is sufficient personal experience to permit moving forward.

            Sample different machines. Motorcycles have never been functionally better. Choppers are folk art where function is deliberately impaired for appearance. Artists sometimes forget the riding aspect, and riders sometimes forget the esthetic aspect.

            What would you and your wife most enjoy riding? What would you ride more often?

            Comment

            • Tricky13
              Member
              • Mar 2017
              • 81

              #36
              Originally posted by farmall
              You can decide why you own it and if it's provided enough fun to pass on. A bro's a bro but all of us end up pushing daisies and someone else will own it sooner or later. Perhaps the very nice build is sufficient personal experience to permit moving forward.

              Sample different machines. Motorcycles have never been functionally better. Choppers are folk art where function is deliberately impaired for appearance. Artists sometimes forget the riding aspect, and riders sometimes forget the esthetic aspect.

              What would you and your wife most enjoy riding? What would you ride more often?
              A very true statement, i had thought about adapting the frame to a softale but then would i still regret going for something more suable to being used as a regular hack, difficult decision....but having looked at the new Triumph Bonneville speedmaster i just may have found a suitable looking alternative...not exactly individual but way more usable.

              Comment

              • Hoghead
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2015
                • 2580

                #37
                Hey- you did your friend proud resurrecting this bike, and it got you back in the saddle-mission accomplished!
                I only bar hop on my rigids, the weekend's run to the coast I did on my Road King.. If you get a bike you are going to want to ride, you'll get far more from it.

                Comment

                • Dougtheinternetannoyance123
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 1021

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Tricky13
                  A very true statement, i had thought about adapting the frame to a softale but then would i still regret going for something more suable to being used as a regular hack, difficult decision....but having looked at the new Triumph Bonneville speedmaster i just may have found a suitable looking alternative...not exactly individual but way more usable.
                  The new Triumph factory bobbers are also pretty damn cool for a factory custom, But I know a bunch of people with the modern Triumphs and a few small issues but overall a very happy group, I think they are a fair deal for the money.

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  I would like to add to the oil cooler debate, The triples had a number of issues from the factory and were initially designed in 1965, shelved and then rushed into production as an "Oh Shit!" When Triumph realized they badly underestimated the Honda CB750 threat. The later triples improved but the early ones had a number of factory design problems. Norman Hyde was an engineer on the project and made a career out of sorting them out and supplying parts for them after Triumph cratered.
                  The fix for the center cyl is run them slightly looser and jet the carbs accordingly, However MOST TRIUMPHS (twins, singles and triples) Dont run very hot, Test to find out however I have and know multiple people who have run temp probes on their engines.

                  IN MANY CASES THE OILS RUN UNDER TEMP! AND ONLY A FEW PLACES DO THEY EXCEED TEMPS-ie CYL HEADS AROUND EXHAUST VALVES.

                  So, TEST your engine to see,, if oils dont reach temps in the desired range its very damaging plus they dont cook off contaminants such as water or gasoline. On ALL bikes run a thermostat with an oil cooler so its only using the cooler when needed. My Sportsters barely reach optimum temp until I go into the city then overheat in traffic, so the thermostats are a godsend.

                  Comment

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