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  1. #1
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    Default No mufflers, lollipops in pipes?

    Thinking of pulling off the mufflers on my 97 1200 and just putting some lollipops or torque inserts in the ends of the pipes. I see guys run custom made short straight pipes so I assume it's alright. Any downsides to doing that?

    Thanks,
    -Dane

  2. #2

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    some guys love them some guys hate them.

    im running home made lolipops in the 2" pipe with gutted baloney cut muffs. for a shovel these are not the optimal pipes for performance.

    what i noticed on my bike when i put in the pops was almost no cackeling when letting off throttle or downshifting.

    as fa ras performance you will prob only find that out on a dyno.

    if you are just running the head pipes you may still get cackeling even with the pops in.

  3. #3

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    What do you guys use for the lollipops? I just came across this idea in a video to help on my bike. I watched a video from S&S that showed that running lollipop bolts in the exhaust increased midrange over not running anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleRemo1985 View Post
    What do you guys use for the lollipops? I just came across this idea in a video to help on my bike. I watched a video from S&S that showed that running lollipop bolts in the exhaust increased midrange over not running anything.
    I think the usual home-made method is an eye bolt with a washer on each side sandwiched together with a small bolt.

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    Anti-reversion or "torque cones" go between the pipes and the exhaust port, at the head.
    Short pipes are for high RPM, purpose built race bikes. And posers.
    Lollipops are fine, figure on rejetting when you uncork the mufflers...

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    for under 20 bucks, I just picked up the DK Customs ones. Mucho easier

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    Anti-reversion or "torque cones" go between the pipes and the exhaust port, at the head.
    Short pipes are for high RPM, purpose built race bikes. And posers.
    Lollipops are fine, figure on rejetting when you uncork the mufflers...
    The torque cones confuse me, why do they go at the exhaust port? And it's the sort of thing where you either run lollipops OR cones right? Never both?

    Quote Originally Posted by HedleyLamarr View Post
    for under 20 bucks, I just picked up the DK Customs ones. Mucho easier
    Yeah that's what I put in yesterday. They're cheap and the guys are cool there.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    The torque cones confuse me, why do they go at the exhaust port? And it's the sort of thing where you either run lollipops OR cones right? Never both?



    Yeah that's what I put in yesterday. They're cheap and the guys are cool there.
    I ended up ordering the CV Performance torque cones before seeing the lollipops from DK. If the torque cones don't do the trick then maybe I'll get some of the lollipops too.

    The way the cones work is by increasing the speed the exhaust gets out of the engine, the escape velocity lost by a much freer flowing exhaust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleRemo1985 View Post
    I ended up ordering the CV Performance torque cones before seeing the lollipops from DK. If the torque cones don't do the trick then maybe I'll get some of the lollipops too.

    The way the cones work is by increasing the speed the exhaust gets out of the engine, the escape velocity lost by a much freer flowing exhaust.
    I rode it around today with just the head pipes and torque inserts (lollipops) and it seemed flat in the lower rpms. The inserts aren't as big as I hoped they would be, so I think I might need to increase the velocity a little bit more so I might try adding some cones too.

  10. #10

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    What size exhaust and inserts do you have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleRemo1985 View Post
    The way the cones work is by increasing the speed the exhaust gets out of the engine, the escape velocity lost by a much freer flowing exhaust.
    Not really. Venturi effect is lost as soon as the fluid/gas leaves the restricted orifice. They are more properly referred to as "anti-reversion inserts". They are trying to minimize the shockwave created when the exhaust leaves the end of the pipe...
    The lollipops partly serve this same function...
    Stock Evo exhaust ports accept 1-3/4" pipe. Some fat pipes have "cones" built in. But i think the OP wants to run just the stock headers without mufflers.
    He'd be better off gutting his mufflers or getting cheap auto parts store exhaust extensions... Maybe lollipops too

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    wouldn't lollipops just melt?😋and what's the best flavor to use?
    Last edited by OleDirtyDoc; 12-03-2016 at 9:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    I rode it around today with just the head pipes and torque inserts (lollipops) and it seemed flat in the lower rpms. The inserts aren't as big as I hoped they would be, so I think I might need to increase the velocity a little bit more so I might try adding some cones too.
    Try a bigger lollipop before the cones. You are positioning the lollipop perpendicular to the pipes,...right? If you're going from having a muffler to not,..you're most likely never going to be happy with the power you're going to lose. Whereas if you started with open pipes,..you would notice a small gain in low end grunt and think lollipops are the shizzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhammer2u View Post
    Try a bigger lollipop before the cones. You are positioning the lollipop perpendicular to the pipes,...right? If you're going from having a muffler to not,..you're most likely never going to be happy with the power you're going to lose. Whereas if you started with open pipes,..you would notice a small gain in low end grunt and think lollipops are the shizzle.
    They're 90 degrees to the pipe but they're just smallish.

    I think you're right, no matter what I do I won't be satisfied with short pipes, I don't know how anyone can be. The power loss I felt was substantial, and even if I could get some of that back I don't see how it could be enough. Probably just going to slap the mufflers back on until I can get some help to make up some real pipes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    They're 90 degrees to the pipe but they're just smallish.

    I think you're right, no matter what I do I won't be satisfied with short pipes, I don't know how anyone can be. The power loss I felt was substantial, and even if I could get some of that back I don't see how it could be enough. Probably just going to slap the mufflers back on until I can get some help to make up some real pipes.
    Like I said, the only people who like them didn't know the bike when it had a "real" exhaust system. There's lots of slip ons that are loud, less tuning issues, great power and cheap. Most dyno guys won't even dyno a bike with pipes that short cause they know the customer will never be happy and bitch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhammer2u View Post
    Like I said, the only people who like them didn't know the bike when it had a "real" exhaust system. There's lots of slip ons that are loud, less tuning issues, great power and cheap. Most dyno guys won't even dyno a bike with pipes that short cause they know the customer will never be happy and bitch.
    Popped the torque cones in and it helped for sure. I'd need to test it more, but at this point I've just about given up on it and started daydreaming about what kind of long pipes I want to do.

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    I run both torque cones and home made lollipops on my 113 S&S - A bolt, a washer and a welder is all you need - Why buy when you can build?Click image for larger version. 

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