Iron Order MC member who shot and killed Mongol MC member in January will walk free.

[SlyJJ]

I wonder, has there ever been a case where a cop, or prison guard was murdered by a 1%er club in retaliation for some form of wrongdoing? I think the idea that the Mongols will kill the prison guard is more fantasy than reality. What would happen if the guy were killed? A massive law enforcement effort would be focused on the Mongols and life would be made very unpleasant for them. If cops can get away with murdering 1%er's, it doesn't really seem like a smart idea for a 1%er club to kill a cop, or a member of a cop mc club. Sounds like a losing proposition for the 1%er's.

As for this idea that cooperating with the cops is "snitching", or that it is dishonorable, etc, I wonder what the members of this forum would do if someone stole their bike, or broke into their home and stole their stuff, or if someone raped their woman, or murdered someone they love (woman, child, friend, family), or if their woman/child/family member was kidnapped? Would you not call the cops?

How about if some drunk driver crashed into you and tore your leg off, or left you paralyzed, would you not talk to the cops? Would you not pursue justice, and financial payment in court? Or would you say "Fuck that. I don't talk to cops. I'd rather pay my medical bills myself and pay for a nurse out of my own pocket for the rest of my life".

How about if you were out riding with a friend and they got smashed by a hit and run driver? If you were the only witness, and the only one who saw the license number of the car, would you not give it to the cops? I think a person would be a total piece of shit if they refused to give that information to the cops, testify in court, and do everything possible to help their mangled friend obtain financial payment from the driver.

Perhaps some people have seen too many movies and have this fantasy of grabbing a gun and going out, finding the cocksuckers, and dishing out some "street justice". How often does that happen in the real world? And how well does it work out when it does happen?

There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses in the biker world. No shortage of people who say "I don't call the cops, I handle my own shit". And when I see people on internet forums talk that big talk, I can't help but wonder what kind of experience they have actually "handling shit". Ever shoot anyone? Ever stab anyone? Ever been shot or stabbed yourself? Ever cracked someones head wide open? Ever gone to prison for "handling your shit"?

Nope, no shortage of big talk on the internet.

I don't see how not co-operating with police is talking big. Some people merely don't like police. Others (such as organized crime and some 1%'ers) make money through illegal means, so having any contact or work with police or law enforcement- no matter the outcome- is not in the best interests of said organization.

The notion that someone wouldn't do something because its "stupid" (I.e street justice).... well theres lots of people in prison for doing foolish things

[Rubman]

You would have a really good point had anyone here said anything like that, but they didn't. Not one person beat their chest talking shit about what they would do. just allot of speculation on why the MC decided to handle it the way they did.

But since you were wondering, I cracked someone's head open in 1996 with a Bushmills bottle, it was horrifying, I didn't sleep for a couple of days thinking I killed him, I ended up doing 90 days in county, then 60 days in a treatment facility, then as soon as I got out and went back to work, I started paying off the civil suit and fines to the tune of 51% of my paycheck for over three years. Not that it has any relevance to this situation, or the people here offering their opinions on it.

Lol don't sweat it, man. That dude always pumps his chest at me and has been doing it for years; he thinks that I have some kind of inferiority complex because I'm prettier than him. It's usually how jealous people react--they project their own shitty behavioral problems or insecurities onto the people they don't deem cool enough, or tough enough, or genuine enough, or ______ enough for them. Yawn.

ANYWAY, as far as what I do with cops?

Two years ago, there was a huge snow storm out here. A few buddies and I made a night of it and went out to the bars. on the way back, we saw a car stuck in the snow, and saw two cops trying to help the girl get over to the side of the road so she could park. I didn't stand there and yell "ACAB!" or anything--because I'm not a complete piece of shit. I went over, lent a hand, and after her car was safely next to the curb, I went back about my business.

It's not like I REFUSE to deal with police. If my home got robbed, I wouldn't call them because I know enough scumbags in the world that I'd probably be able to find my stuff before they did.

If a drunk driver smashed into me in the middle of the street and took my leg off, I would do everything I could to assist draining every plumb nickel from that mother fucker's bank account.

And if I was out doing biker shit and got hurt as the result of said biker shit, the answer is no--I would not cooperate with police if they asked. I'd keep my mouth shut, take care of myself, and pursue the appropriate avenues airing my grievance--none of which should ever include police intervention.

It's pretty common sense stuff, and the expectations are pretty clear. In fact, they're SO clear that I kind of don't understand where the confusion is. If I'm not dying and I CAN handle it myself, I don't involve the police. If it involves other bikers and the situation can be remedied in-house, I don't call the police.

As far as committing violence against others is concerned, that's none of your business. All I can tell you is that I'm a lot older now and don't look for trouble with absolutely anyone if it can be avoided, and I don't think it makes me any less of a bad ass to feel that way. In fact, that's how most of the bad asses I know operate. But for as long as I've been around, I've always told everyone: "I don't mind if you knock on my door, but be prepared for what answers."

And that's really all there is to it. None of this has anything to do with being a biker, really. It's just about being a decent human being lol

[mrhammer2u]

I didn't stand there and yell "ACAB!" or anything--because I'm not a complete piece of shit. Il

I had to look up ACAB. Didn't know that was a thing. I mean I knew cops were dicks, but I didn't know there was an acronym for it...lol!

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

You would have a really good point had anyone here said anything like that, but they didn't. Not one person beat their chest talking shit about what they would do. just allot of speculation on why the MC decided to handle it the way they did.

I wasn't referring to anyone in this thread, that's why I didn't single out anyone's post. I have no problem letting individuals know exactly what I think of them, and express my disagreement with their opinions by addressing them by name when I post.

Like I said "There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses on the internet", and "no shortage of big talk on the internet". Those were general statements expressing my opinions on a lot of the talk I see on the internet when the subject of cooperating with the cops comes up and people start talking about handling shit themselves. How much of that talk is the truth, and how much is just "big talk". It seems to me that those people who would be inclined to handle shit themselves wouldn't be the type to talk about it, much less post about it on an internet forum.

It's been my experience that people who go around talking about kicking ass, particularly on the internet, are generally full of shit.

And again, that's a general statement, and not a reference to any specific people here.

Of course, if people want to assume that my posts are about them, as if everything is about them, well, I can't help that.

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

I don't see how not co-operating with police is talking big. Some people merely don't like police. Others (such as organized crime and some 1%'ers) make money through illegal means, so having any contact or work with police or law enforcement- no matter the outcome- is not in the best interests of said organization.

Not cooperating with the cops is one thing. Under many circumstances I wouldn't call or cooperate with the cops either. For me it's a case-by-case decision. What I don't do is say that anyone who ever calls or cooperates with the cops is a snitch, or refer to them in other such derogatory ways. But perhaps you would agree with what I said- that there are a lot of people in the "biker community" who like to talk tough, but who in reality are just poser wannabe bad-asses.

The notion that someone wouldn't do something because its "stupid" (I.e street justice).... well theres lots of people in prison for doing foolish things

Believe me I know. I was one of them. And I have a lot more respect for people who handle their own shit, and do their time, then I do for people who just like to talk tough about how they would handle their own shit, but who in reality would never risk injury, death or prison by actually do it. Talk is cheap, and it's a lot easier to talk about "handling shit" then it is to actually do it.

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

Lol don't sweat it, man. That dude always pumps his chest at me and has been doing it for years; he thinks that I have some kind of inferiority complex because I'm prettier than him. It's usually how jealous people react--they project their own shitty behavioral problems or insecurities onto the people they don't deem cool enough, or tough enough, or genuine enough, or ______ enough for them. Yawn.

No Rubman, if I have something to say to you, or about you, I'll say it directly to you (like this post). And you could not possibly be prettier than I am.

ANYWAY, as far as what I do with cops?

Two years ago, there was a huge snow storm out here. A few buddies and I made a night of it and went out to the bars. on the way back, we saw a car stuck in the snow, and saw two cops trying to help the girl get over to the side of the road so she could park. I didn't stand there and yell "ACAB!" or anything--because I'm not a complete piece of shit. I went over, lent a hand, and after her car was safely next to the curb, I went back about my business.

It's not like I REFUSE to deal with police. If my home got robbed, I wouldn't call them because I know enough scumbags in the world that I'd probably be able to find my stuff before they did.

If a drunk driver smashed into me in the middle of the street and took my leg off, I would do everything I could to assist draining every plumb nickel from that mother fucker's bank account.

And if I was out doing biker shit and got hurt as the result of said biker shit, the answer is no--I would not cooperate with police if they asked. I'd keep my mouth shut, take care of myself, and pursue the appropriate avenues airing my grievance--none of which should ever include police intervention.

It's pretty common sense stuff, and the expectations are pretty clear. In fact, they're SO clear that I kind of don't understand where the confusion is. If I'm not dying and I CAN handle it myself, I don't involve the police. If it involves other bikers and the situation can be remedied in-house, I don't call the police.

As far as committing violence against others is concerned, that's none of your business. All I can tell you is that I'm a lot older now and don't look for trouble with absolutely anyone if it can be avoided, and I don't think it makes me any less of a bad ass to feel that way. In fact, that's how most of the bad asses I know operate. But for as long as I've been around, I've always told everyone: "I don't mind if you knock on my door, but be prepared for what answers."

And that's really all there is to it. None of this has anything to do with being a biker, really. It's just about being a decent human being lol

I'd say that much of that^ reflects my philosophy and practice as well. The only exceptions being I would call the cops if someone robbed my house. I don't know any scumbags anymore. And I have no problem letting the cops deal with certain other situations, because I know firsthand how seriously the cops, and the criminal justice system can really fuck up someones life. Often times, filing criminal charges can hurt some asshole a lot worse than breaking their jaw.

I particularly like this line- "All I can tell you is that I'm a lot older now and don't look for trouble with absolutely anyone if it can be avoided, and I don't think it makes me any less of a bad ass to feel that way". That's some true wisdom right there, and a sign of maturity. If more people followed that philosophy there would be fewer people in prison. Props to you Rubman.

[Rubman]

Uhh, listen man... Don't know if you got the memo, but I'm the prettiest mother fucker that ever chopper'd. So uhh, uhm, errrr, uhhh... Well, this is awkward now.

But in all seriousness, fun fact: If you identify with those ideologies, then you have a lot more in common with the people you're asking questions about than you think.

Edit: Like, I came back here just so I could clarify that I'm also prettier than CRFyou. Like, I make him like a washed up old condom.

[Tattooo]

Uhh, listen man... Don't know if you got the memo, but I'm the prettiest mother fucker that ever chopper'd. So uhh, uhm, errrr, uhhh... Well, this is awkward now.

You can be the pretty one..... But I'm better looking.......

[OleDirtyDoc]

And I hold all the cards on awesome. I once killed two stones with one bird

[klondikekid64]

Prison guards do get killed, in Canada no less.http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...ocid=ACERDHP15

[53Bash]

Why, precisely, is refusal to use the system respectable or intelligent? What is the strategic or tactical benefit of that way of armed conflict?

In the case of the Mongols, it is at least not hypocritical. Which is more to respect than many groups offer. Not saying I like what they do, or that its what I would do, but at least they stand by it.

[Keeleyvision]

I wasn't referring to anyone in this thread, that's why I didn't single out anyone's post. I have no problem letting individuals know exactly what I think of them, and express my disagreement with their opinions by addressing them by name when I post.

Like I said "There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses on the internet", and "no shortage of big talk on the internet". Those were general statements expressing my opinions on a lot of the talk I see on the internet when the subject of cooperating with the cops comes up and people start talking about handling shit themselves. How much of that talk is the truth, and how much is just "big talk". It seems to me that those people who would be inclined to handle shit themselves wouldn't be the type to talk about it, much less post about it on an internet forum.

It's been my experience that people who go around talking about kicking ass, particularly on the internet, are generally full of shit.

And again, that's a general statement, and not a reference to any specific people here.

Of course, if people want to assume that my posts are about them, as if everything is about them, well, I can't help that.

I don't dissagree with the "internet" point, it was just very confusing because it didn't seem to be happening here. I read your post and had to scroll back through all the posts looking for chest beating and thinking "WTF" is this guy talking about?" Didn't read like a general condemnation of the internet as a whole, or I didn't pick that up at least, but then I was onle 1 cup of coffee deep at the time.

[None]

I'm pretty sure as a 1% you don't call them for ANY reason.

Nah ... that's not entirely true either.

You've got to report your bike being stolen if you want to process an insurance claim on it ... presuming you didn't steal it in the first place.

Where I grew up they did not have Blacks so the Cops picked on Bikers instead. Then hippies and punks ... presumably anyone who stood out as having more fun than them? Pulling over a biker or two appeared to be some kind of initiation ritual for young boys in blue.

I was hit off my bike by a car once. Saw the number as I picked myself and the bike off the middle road. Decided to go and report it ... and when I got there, the cop gave me a ticket for something instead, doing nothing about the car driver. Of course, due to "data protection" they won't give you names and addresses any more. He had a quota to fill and I was the easy meat stood there.

How many stories could I tell you like that?

Next time I'll thump my chest on the internet about what I'll do to the next car driver who runs me down instead ... and save myself the price of ticket. Pretty much any time you speak to them, they run your name through the computer and it's added to the list. Now they're after taking your phone and swiping the contacts etc. Less and less they actually do anything.

From 'The Aging Rebel' ...

The Iron Order’s current International Vice-President is 45-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Michael “Cgar” Crouse. Crouse is currently assigned to the U.S. Army Reserve Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In tape recorded and written statements, Crouse comes across as a stupid bully.

In one conversation to which The Aging Rebel gained access, Crouse stated “I know our club has the advantage. One percenters won’t call the cops. So what the fuck, destroy any fucker that confronts you. It’s a free ticket….”

Funny thing is, I wondering if this Iron Order - or the Urine Ordure as they appear to be nicknamed - might actually unite 1% MCs against a common enemy? Or are they the final nail in the sub-culture's coffin?

[Rubman]

Nah ... that's not entirely true either.

You've got to report your bike being stolen if you want to process an insurance claim on it ... presuming you didn't steal it in the first place.

Where I grew up they did not have Blacks so the Cops picked on Bikers instead. Then hippies and punks ... presumably anyone who stood out as having more fun than them? Pulling over a biker or two appeared to be some kind of initiation ritual for young boys in blue.

I was hit off my bike by a car once. Saw the number as I picked myself and the bike off the middle road. Decided to go and report it ... and when I got there, the cop gave me a ticket for something instead, doing nothing about the car driver. Of course, due to "data protection" they won't give you names and addresses any more. He had a quota to fill and I was the easy meat stood there.

How many stories could I tell you like that?

Next time I'll thump my chest on the internet about what I'll do to the next car driver who runs me down instead ... and save myself the price of ticket. Pretty much any time you speak to them, they run your name through the computer and it's added to the list. Now they're after taking your phone and swiping the contacts etc. Less and less they actually do anything.

From 'The Aging Rebel' ...


Funny thing is, I wondering if this Iron Order - or the Urine Ordure as they appear to be nicknamed - might actually unite 1% MCs against a common enemy? Or are they the final nail in the sub-culture's coffin?

You are a big dumb faggot. I don't really use the term faggot lightly, but boy do I hate you, you big dumb faggot. You big dumb greasy faggot. You big dumb greasy child porn watching faggot. You big dumb greasy child porn watching faggot with a heavy limp, buck teeth, and a big dumb faggot comb over.

Goddamn you. I didn't even read your post. I just see your name and want to throw up on my computer.

[farmall]

Funny thing is, I wondering if this Iron Order - or the Urine Ordure as they appear to be nicknamed - might actually unite 1% MCs against a common enemy? Or are they the final nail in the sub-culture's coffin?

The subculture is indestructible because it lacks points of collapse and power abhors a vacuum. If peeps want to bang in the open they can do that just like anyone else if they find the attrition rate sustainable. Power relationships in any culture may be altered by force, and what one group can do another can do.

[klondikekid64]

Nah ... that's not entirely true either.

You've got to report your bike being stolen if you want to process an insurance claim on it ... presuming you didn't steal it in the first place.

Where I grew up they did not have Blacks so the Cops picked on Bikers instead. Then hippies and punks ... presumably anyone who stood out as having more fun than them? Pulling over a biker or two appeared to be some kind of initiation ritual for young boys in blue.

I was hit off my bike by a car once. Saw the number as I picked myself and the bike off the middle road. Decided to go and report it ... and when I got there, the cop gave me a ticket for something instead, doing nothing about the car driver. Of course, due to "data protection" they won't give you names and addresses any more. He had a quota to fill and I was the easy meat stood there.

How many stories could I tell you like that?

Next time I'll thump my chest on the internet about what I'll do to the next car driver who runs me down instead ... and save myself the price of ticket. Pretty much any time you speak to them, they run your name through the computer and it's added to the list. Now they're after taking your phone and swiping the contacts etc. Less and less they actually do anything.

From 'The Aging Rebel' ...


Funny thing is, I wondering if this Iron Order - or the Urine Ordure as they appear to be nicknamed - might actually unite 1% MCs against a common enemy? Or are they the final nail in the sub-culture's coffin?

Why would you call the cops when you/club have access to the DMV, and other places that the avarage joe doesn't have, courtesy of girlfriends, wifes, non member family, accosiates, I'm pretty sure they will collect on any preceived debt / damage "claim" alot quicker than, standing in line, courts , Insurance companys etc. without waiting, one visit usually does it. John Q public has to stand in line.

[mayberryterror]

The Iron Order is a bait club to real in 1%ers into a case. They patch out a few lames who couldn't make hang around, let alone patch out with a real club. The LEO's in this club call the shots, and do anything they can to provoke 3 piece clubs into a case. Look what happened in Jacksonville FL, there were more than enough non mc witness to charge the iron order pig with murder and the fucker walked. Just like what happened here in Colorado, I can garuntee you that there were more that just mongols around when shit hit the fan. They didn't need the mongols to rat, there were other people there who told the law what happened. That's why the local PD wanted to charge this lame fuck with murder. The Fed's caught wind and shot that down, they need there bait club out there to bring cases on 1%ers. This nerd CO who got scared and pulled the trigger will get his. Fuck the Iron Order, and fuck the Fed's!

[Rubman]

The Iron Order is a bait club to real in 1%ers into a case. They patch out a few lames who couldn't make hang around, let alone patch out with a real club. The LEO's in this club call the shots, and do anything they can to provoke 3 piece clubs into a case. Look what happened in Jacksonville FL, there were more than enough non mc witness to charge the iron order pig with murder and the fucker walked. Just like what happened here in Colorado, I can garuntee you that there were more that just mongols around when shit hit the fan. They didn't need the mongols to rat, there were other people there who told the law what happened. That's why the local PD wanted to charge this lame fuck with murder. The Fed's caught wind and shot that down, they need there bait club out there to bring cases on 1%ers. This nerd CO who got scared and pulled the trigger will get his. Fuck the Iron Order, and fuck the Fed's!

My nigga!

[OleDirtyDoc]

The Iron Order is a bait club to real in 1%ers into a case. They patch out a few lames who couldn't make hang around, let alone patch out with a real club. The LEO's in this club call the shots, and do anything they can to provoke 3 piece clubs into a case. Look what happened in Jacksonville FL, there were more than enough non mc witness to charge the iron order pig with murder and the fucker walked. Just like what happened here in Colorado, I can garuntee you that there were more that just mongols around when shit hit the fan. They didn't need the mongols to rat, there were other people there who told the law what happened. That's why the local PD wanted to charge this lame fuck with murder. The Fed's caught wind and shot that down, they need there bait club out there to bring cases on 1%ers. This nerd CO who got scared and pulled the trigger will get his. Fuck the Iron Order, and fuck the Fed's!

Amen

[SlyJJ]

My nigga!

I'm offended.... Does chop cult provide counseling?