4 Speed rebuild help - kicker issues

[AndyNZ]

Hi guys,

Ive just been through and rebuild my 4 speed after the kicker gear bush ate shit and toasted the mainshaft. I got it all back together as far as the gearset and ratchet top goes no worries, ive ran into an issue on the kicker side of things though. It has a full Andrews gearset inside, Jims countershaft, new Andrews mainshaft, V-twin kicker gears and is in an aftermarket custom chrome case.

No matter what i do, the kicker will only return to about 11 o'clock. Ive pulled the cover off with the kicker at the 11o'clock position and the stop on the kick gear is not hitting the stop in the trans. I have the kick shaft and stop clocked so that the return spring slot and the stop on the gear are on the same flat ( as per this http://tearitupfixitrepeat.blogspot....up-part-9.html). There is plenty of spring tension to return the kicker all the way to the 12 but it seems like something is binding, as i said the stop will not hit home.

I have installed the cover with the kicker gear stop so it is resting on the stop in the tranny, when i then try to rotate the kicker through its motion is is jammed up at this point, it takes a solid whack to free it up, then it will once again only return to 11 o'clock position.

I have verified that the kicker gear on the mainshaft slides back and forward freely and is not binding. My feeling is it is something to do with the ramps on the kickshaft gear.

When the kicker is at 11o'clock the mainshaft spins freely (kick gears are not engaged) but it only takes the slightest bit of movement on the kick arm get them to begin engaging.

I will try get pics and a video up alter tonight.

Any ideas as to what could be causing this? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Dragstews]

My feeling is it is something to do with the ramps on the kickshaft gear.

Think you will find your problem in this area.....

[Blackbetty]

Is your kicker cover bolted down when you check everything? I've found it needs to be tight for everything to mesh together correctly.

I use baker kicker gears but even all cinched up it stops at 11 oclock. If this is unacceptable, Baker's solution is to grind down the stop pin on the kicker gear

It also helps to stretch out the spring behind the kicker gear on the mainshaft - I'd tell you to replace it with a new one, but that's a tricky part to find new.

[Dragstews]

It also helps to stretch out the spring behind the kicker gear on the mainshaft - I'd tell you to replace it with a new one, but that's a tricky part to find new.

How many do ya need...???

[Blackbetty]

Well god damnit stew. That is literally the only part of my 4 speed guts I couldn't find new...

[AndyNZ]

Is your kicker cover bolted down when you check everything? I've found it needs to be tight for everything to mesh together correctly.

I use baker kicker gears but even all cinched up it stops at 11 oclock. If this is unacceptable, Baker's solution is to grind down the stop pin on the kicker gear

It also helps to stretch out the spring behind the kicker gear on the mainshaft - I'd tell you to replace it with a new one, but that's a tricky part to find new.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yes, im testing it with the kicker cover fully bolted down.

Even if i did grind back some of the stop it till wouldn't fix the issue, the stop isn't quite hitting home, this is whats causing the kicker arm to top at 11 o'clock.

Drag - any idea as to why the issue with the ramps? ive tried both the old and new kicker gear and get the same issue with both. As i mentioned above the gear on the main shaft slides freely. This things really got me at a loss here

[Sky]

With the cover off does the kick shaft spin free past this binding point?? Could be a problem with the shaft bushings?
Try a different thickness gasket...
V-Twin brand is notorious for ill fitment. Maybe round the leading edge of the kicker ramps? Bend the ramp(s), maybe. see what happens

[Dragstews]

Drag - any idea as to why the issue with the ramps? ive tried both the old and new kicker gear and get the same issue with both. As i mentioned above the gear on the main shaft slides freely. This things really got me at a loss here

Could be the ramps are not bent back far enough to kick out the starter gear.
In other words... the starter gear teeth are catching on the ramp...???

Or the bushing in the starter mainshaft gear is to long not allowing the gear to retract (Not enough travel) to resting..

[47str8leg]

Did you put the large washer between the kick arm spring and cover , Is it the right thickness ?? Is it an aftermarket cover ? C.C.I and V-twin (in some instances ) throw up red flags. It is also disturbing to read that the baker gear set also doesn't work properly.

[AndyNZ]

Drag - Ill check the bushing but seems to be travelling back plenty far enough by my measurement. May try tweaking the ramps a bit and see if it helps at all. when pushed right back its maybe 3/8" (top of my head here) clear from the fixed gear on the mainshaft, also with kick arm at 11 o'clock it takes the smallest amount of movement for the teeth to start engaging, i take from this the issue isnt here as such

47str8leg - yes i have the chamfered washer in on the kick shaft. Cover is possibly aftermarket, the whole case is so wouldn't surprise me, im not sure how to tell though. Was working fine up until the original kicker gear bush shit itself. Yeah that was my thought, in theory all ive changed on that side is the kicker gears on the mainshaft.

Back to the ramps- they are engaging some and moving the bushed gear away as i can spin the output shaft freely with the kicker arm at 11 o'clock (just), so for whatever reason the bushed gear is binding/catching on the last part of the ramp as it comes up flush with the gear...that sounding right to you guys?

[47str8leg]

what about trying putting some grease on the ramp , putting it back on ,and see where it's leaving a mark on the inside ?

[AndyNZ]

Thats a good idea, will give that a try tonight.

I just came across this thread and its sounding similar....as you say the cover could be a cheapy and i definitely have teeth marks in both my old and new kick gear on the ramp plate....could be the problem. Luckily i have two to mess with

http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62961