help with shovel lifters

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  • worryman
    Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 63

    help with shovel lifters

    what's the best way to identify if I have solid or hydraulic lifters? I know they need to be adjusted periodically and that there are different procedures for both.
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  • panheadjess
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 266

    #2
    Hi, those look like stock style hydraulics, if you want to be sure just adjust them until the pushrod spins free with no up and down play, then adjust them one turn tighter. Now see how they don't spin freely? If they are hydraulic they will bleed down and spin freely in about 15 min. or less. If they are solid they won't bleed down no matter how long you wait.

    Comment

    • worryman
      Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 63

      #3
      Got it. My dad put solids in his shovel back before I was old enough to remember. I may have to switch.

      Comment

      • bastard78
        Member
        • Oct 2014
        • 39

        #4
        No reason to switch to solids. More noise and harder on the top end. If the motor is stock, there are no benefits.

        Comment

        • boomboomthump
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2013
          • 1208

          #5
          Since you asked for the best way to identify them...

          The dead give away is the spring. Solids are solid, they dont compress. Hydraulics fill with oil and they compress just like a suspension component and there is a spring for the "rebound".


          Solids are only noisy if not adjusted properly. You need to go through and adjust them multiple times to find the the loosest part of the lifter on the cam lobe. It is not necessarily at the same point where the opposite valve is on the upstroke.

          Comment

          • JustJ
            Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 39

            #6
            Those are solid.

            Comment

            • JustJ
              Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 39

              #7
              my bad..those are hydro I was thinkin of mine they are solid you have the springs

              Comment

              • worryman
                Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 63

                #8
                So I'm Hydraulic? The spring? From what I read solids seem easier to adjust. Hydraulic confuses me. Can anyone put it really simple tetms for me?

                Comment

                • Tattooo
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 12407

                  #9
                  LOL Hell I'm confused and I know the difference,,,,,LOL

                  Comment

                  • shovelpaul
                    Junior Member
                    • May 2015
                    • 2

                    #10
                    Hi, first of all you do have factory hydraulic lifters trust me I've been working and wrenching on shovels for a long time. This process isn't the fastest but.....it is the surest way to properly adjust hydraulic lifters. First, ensure that the push rod that you are adjusting has it's lifter assembly at the lowest point on the cam lobe. Then turn the adjuster nut, on the lifter itself all the way in compressing the spring to loosen that push rod(while holding the flats on that push rod of course) then remove that push rod and cover assembly out of the way. Next, carefully remove the lifter out of the tappet block, remove the piston out of the lifter bore and inspect the piston and inside the lifter bore for any excessive wear or scoring, if there isn't any then, reinsert the piston and spring back into the bore and push on the spring/piston while holding a finger over the small oil inlet on the other side. If the spring and piston pop out on their own that assembly is serviceable. Next step, replace the upper, lower and center pushrod corks or O-rings, I recommend upgrading to O-rings by the way, corks are fine but O-rings are a little better. this is very cheap insurance against future leaks trust me. After having done that, reinstall the lifer back into the tappet block now inspect your push rod ends and make sure that it isn't galled on the rounded portions on the ends and, as best as you can tell that it's not bent. You can check it on heavy glass plate but that's a whole different class. Anyway, reinstall that pushrod and cover. It may need some gentle love to get it back into place. Now, get a paint marker or something suitable that you can see easily and mark one of the the flats on the adjuster nut on the hydraulic liter. turn the adjuster nut on the lifter in the lengthening direction until the pocket on the lifter has made positive contact with the "ball" on the lower end of that pushrod then, once it makes contact continue turning the adjuster nut on that lifter exactly one and a half additional revolutions(in the lengthening direction) using the marked flat as your guide. This is the best and surest way to adjust hydraulic lifters. Now, repeat this for the other three push rod assemblies. Like I said it isn't quick as in a fifteen minute procedure but this way ensures that your hydraulic lifter is serviceable first and foremost then you have it adjusted properly the way it was engineered to be. By the way, I've been a motorcycle wrench for a loooong time and there is no substitute for doing this right. Be patient, remember that old adage, "there's never enough time to do it right BUT there's always enough time to do it twice. Peace, brother man.

                    Comment

                    • shovelpaul
                      Junior Member
                      • May 2015
                      • 2

                      #11
                      Sorry worryman, but I neglected to tell you one other bit of often overlooked maintenance concerning hydraulic lifters. Once you have completed all of your pushrod adjustments remove that slotted plug that is just to the rear of that rear tappet block and remove and inspect or replace your tappet assembly screen. This screen gets clogged with oil sludge over time and it will cause symptoms of bad lifters when the lifters are fine. In reality, they are just slightly starved for oil, especially at higher RPM's You see, the oil supply that feeds your hydraulic lifters must first pass thru that screen and if that screen is clogged/dirty or partially blocked then your lifters won't get an adequate oil supply. I hope this information has helped you, if you have any more questions please feel free to ask or email me at: [email protected] always glad to pass on the help because I sure did appreciate it when it got it. God Bless.

                      Comment

                      • worryman
                        Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 63

                        #12
                        Thanks so much, this really really helps. Chop cult is awesome.
                        Last edited by worryman; 06-10-2015, 9:42 PM.

                        Comment

                        • panheadjess
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 266

                          #13
                          Originally posted by shovelpaul
                          Hi, first of all you do have factory hydraulic lifters trust me I've been working and wrenching on shovels for a long time. This process isn't the fastest but.....it is the surest way to properly adjust hydraulic lifters. First, ensure that the push rod that you are adjusting has it's lifter assembly at the lowest point on the cam lobe. Then turn the adjuster nut, on the lifter itself all the way in compressing the spring to loosen that push rod(while holding the flats on that push rod of course) then remove that push rod and cover assembly out of the way. Next, carefully remove the lifter out of the tappet block, remove the piston out of the lifter bore and inspect the piston and inside the lifter bore for any excessive wear or scoring, if there isn't any then, reinsert the piston and spring back into the bore and push on the spring/piston while holding a finger over the small oil inlet on the other side. If the spring and piston pop out on their own that assembly is serviceable. Next step, replace the upper, lower and center pushrod corks or O-rings, I recommend upgrading to O-rings by the way, corks are fine but O-rings are a little better. this is very cheap insurance against future leaks trust me. After having done that, reinstall the lifer back into the tappet block now inspect your push rod ends and make sure that it isn't galled on the rounded portions on the ends and, as best as you can tell that it's not bent. You can check it on heavy glass plate but that's a whole different class. Anyway, reinstall that pushrod and cover. It may need some gentle love to get it back into place. Now, get a paint marker or something suitable that you can see easily and mark one of the the flats on the adjuster nut on the hydraulic liter. turn the adjuster nut on the lifter in the lengthening direction until the pocket on the lifter has made positive contact with the "ball" on the lower end of that pushrod then, once it makes contact continue turning the adjuster nut on that lifter exactly one and a half additional revolutions(in the lengthening direction) using the marked flat as your guide. This is the best and surest way to adjust hydraulic lifters. Now, repeat this for the other three push rod assemblies. Like I said it isn't quick as in a fifteen minute procedure but this way ensures that your hydraulic lifter is serviceable first and foremost then you have it adjusted properly the way it was engineered to be. By the way, I've been a motorcycle wrench for a loooong time and there is no substitute for doing this right. Be patient, remember that old adage, "there's never enough time to do it right BUT there's always enough time to do it twice. Peace, brother man.
                          VERY IMPORTANT, after you adjust one pushrod, wait until it bleeds down (pushrod spins freely) before turning over to adjust the next one, or you will likely bend a valve and have to tear your engine apart!

                          Comment

                          • worryman
                            Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 63

                            #14
                            Originally posted by panheadjess
                            VERY IMPORTANT, after you adjust one pushrod, wait until it bleeds down (pushrod spins freely) before turning over to adjust the next one, or you will likely bend a valve and have to tear your engine apart!
                            If adjusting at the lowest point does bleeding down mean the pushrod will go up and the opposite one will lower or "bleed down"?

                            Comment

                            • panheadjess
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2015
                              • 266

                              #15
                              When you adjust the pushrod until it has no up and down play, then go 1.5 turns tighter, the 1.5 turns will open the valve slightly (if there is oil in the lifter) you have to wait for the oil to bleed out of the lifter and let the valve return to the seat, or risk valve damage.

                              Comment

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