4spd ratchet adjustment issue. 84 shovelhead.

[manesfesto]

I think my clutch basket is walking out when its engaged ( lever to the grip) causing my plates to grab, in turn pulling me as I shift into 1st and or whatever gear I am in. I thought this might be caused by the fact that the old retainer clips were smaller and worn, but like I said we couldnt figure out how to get the new ones to fit over the studs without modification.

My 3'' tracks straight as hell and the bike shifts ok, sometimes the clutch willl grab as I downshift coming up to a stop sign and grab as the lever is to the grip. other times it downshifts just fine and doesnt grab and I can shift all the way to 1st with no issues.

I havent had a chance to pull it apart since I have been busy, but I do appreciate the responses guys. tomorrow afternoon I will be free to tear into it.

[panheadjess]

I 've used the style of tamer you are trying and found the following problems, (1) this retainer comes in two styles, one for 5 stud and one for 3 stud clutch hubs, if you have the wrong one all of the snap rings won't lock in their grooves. (2) these made of plastic and once they warm up they will flex enough to let the clutch basket walk even if they are set up with the right play. I prefer to use V-Twin part 18-1112 it is made of aluminum, and stays where you set it (you can get it at K&S customz.com). Also, make sure your clutch steels aren't warped or your clutch will drag no matter what ( I prefer to use new steels without the anti rattlers, they seem to release better) lastly, install a "big fix kit" V-Twin 20-0229 to help control the basket movement. Whenever I do all of this together and adjust it properly I never have any problems.

[manesfesto]

Alright guys here is my update:

I took off the old C clips and replaced them with the thicker ones. Same issues but not as bad.

Went down to our shop here and my parts guy pointed me towards what panheadjess was posting. So I pulled it all back apart and put one of these kits on there:

http://www.motoparthub.com/BF_1_Belt_Drives_Clutch_Hub_Bearing_Kit_Big_Fix_Bearing_36_e84_Bt?src=Google&gclid=Cj0KEQiA6dGmBRC_3Mi-x_XywKsBEiQA1lcFP92z5PTv0e090-N-OiCRMpPgfHpaa_uIQ8zDrl3D8lkaAg8T8P8HAQ

Same issue. As soon as I shift into first even with the bike off, the clutch pulled to the bars, its still dragging and engaging.

my question, mind me asking possibly a stupid question. Should I be running the big fix I just posted the link too, then the plastic retainer over that super thin shim?

thanks again guys

[manesfesto]

I 've used the style of tamer you are trying and found the following problems, (1) this retainer comes in two styles, one for 5 stud and one for 3 stud clutch hubs, if you have the wrong one all of the snap rings won't lock in their grooves. (2) these made of plastic and once they warm up they will flex enough to let the clutch basket walk even if they are set up with the right play. I prefer to use V-Twin part 18-1112 it is made of aluminum, and stays where you set it (you can get it at K&S customz.com). Also, make sure your clutch steels aren't warped or your clutch will drag no matter what ( I prefer to use new steels without the anti rattlers, they seem to release better) lastly, install a "big fix kit" V-Twin 20-0229 to help control the basket movement. Whenever I do all of this together and adjust it properly I never have any problems.

would be curious to hear your opinion now. thanks for the help guys.

[panheadjess]

The big fix kit you installed keeps the clutch basket from wobbling when the clutch is released, the plastic retainer is supposed to keep the basket from walking out when the clutch is released. I tried one years ago and it was better than nothing but doesn't work nearly as good as the aluminum retainer. What you're trying to do is keep an air gap between the clutches and the steels when the clutch is released, if your clutch basket wobbles you lose air gap, if it walks out you lose air gap, if your steels are even slightly warped they act like a diaphragm spring and take up your air gap. The reason I like the steels without the anti rattlers is they hold against the dogs in the basket and rub against the friction plates causing drag. If the dogs in the basket or studs on the clutch hub have grooves on them it causes the same problem. The adjustment of the clutch has to be right or you won't have enough air gap. back off the clutch cable completely, run the adjuster on the pressure plate in until you feel it touch the throw out bearing and then back off 1/8 to 1/4 turn hold it there and tighten the jam nut. The less you back the adjustment off after it touches the throw out bearing, the more air gap you'll have, but you also need to adjust it more often. don't ever let it get to zero clearance or you will burn up your throw out bearing. Lastly make sure your clutch plates are completely dry and free of oil or they will drag. As you can see anything that removes your air gap will cause the problem so you have to do all of these modifications to get good reliable clutch release. When you set the tension on your springs set them by the manual and then pull in the clutch handle and check to see that the pressure plate comes off of the clutches evenly all the way around. If it does not, adjust the springs until it does.

[manesfesto]

thanks for the huge bit of info. I have done basically all these little adjustment you described. I installed the big fix plastic"ish" ring that sits just on top of the rollers. tried to run that. no luck, same issue. I then went back in and added the black plastic with the A B C. I could barely get the C clips to seat on the groove but got them non the less. Went out and hammered on it. same issue. at idle, with it in 1st gear, running, it will pull the bike with no throttle.

pullled the hub back apart, and two of the 3 C clips had popped off. Looks like I might have to get a different hub all together. I dont understand why they keep popping off literally 5 minutes after they seat. I then popped them both back on. put everything back together, and pulled the clutch in and tried to spin the basket with my hand, I could have probably kicked the bike over with the lever to the bar. This is after re adjusting the push rob and the 3 springs tension on the basket and the end play in my cable. stumped and its 75 and sunny. fuck me

[panheadjess]

Yeah, I've seen those clips pop off before too. That plastic retainer ain't much, the aluminum one I told you about is the way to go, it is secured with your clutch hub nut so there are no snap rings to come loose.

[manesfesto]

Yeah, I've seen those clips pop off before too. That plastic retainer ain't much, the aluminum one I told you about is the way to go, it is secured with your clutch hub nut so there are no snap rings to come loose.

gotcha gotcha. any idea the manufacturer or link? I appreciate it.

[Langmire]

Don't know if this link will work but here's one http://www.jpcycles.com/product/620-685. There is install instruction at the bottom of that page. I installed this one
last year and if set up right it works great. I have a 5 stud hub and a BDL 2 inch. The other thing to maybe have a look at is your throw out bearing. I had mine
partially explode, it would still release the clutch but I wasn't getting the full travel on the push rod. Hope that helps! Cheers.

Also, don't mean to highjack but this will come up if you get the tamer. Anyone run the steel plate against the basket like the instructions say?? I didn't last year but
it's in there now, with one plate and disk removed. Haven't tried it yet as my bike is still in the process of a redo. Thanks

[panheadjess]

Yeah, you can get V-twin part number 18-1112 at kscustomz.com (good discounts for veterans)

[panheadjess]

Here's the link, it's a little cheaper here http://kscustomz.com/index.php/catal...ult/?q=18-1112

[manesfesto]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help! Prob gonna snag one of these this week and give it a whirl. The throwout bearing was totally fucked when I first got the trans and my buddy (mechanic at the shop here) replaced it and everything along with it. Ill get back to this thread and let you guys know how it works out. ready to be puttin miles down!

[manesfesto]

UPDATE: FIXED

Decided to at least give you guys an explanation of what fixed this issue after trying all the things we tried. What ended up being the issue was simple. belt tension.
I have custom mid controls we built and ended up using them on the shifter side to tie the entire motor to the trans in a triangle to keep the trans from walking forward under heavy load. We took off the controls and slotted the mounting holes a tad and loosely bolted them back on. Simply loosened the transmission, let it slip the slightest bit forward. locked it back down. adjusted everything back to spec. kicked it through with no plugs to see if the belt wanted to walk off, and it actually walked back over on the motor pully towards the motor a bit but we actually wanted that.

All in all it tracks straight as an arrow and I can sit at a stop light with no issues in 1st with the clutch in. I am now running the big fix kit, and the ABC Drag retainer ring set on A. Thanks for all the help and maybe this will solve someone elses problem down the road.
Cheers

[Langmire]

Right on man! you have any pics of your trans support you made up? Thinkin about doing something on my ride. Ive fucked around forever trying to get my belt to track nice. it always wants to walk off the motor pulley away from the motor. Only hangs off about 1/8th on the front pulley and then the belt looks to be dead straight. Anyway, glad your shit worked out.

[manesfesto]

Right on man! you have any pics of your trans support you made up? Thinkin about doing something on my ride. Ive fucked around forever trying to get my belt to track nice. it always wants to walk off the motor pulley away from the motor. Only hangs off about 1/8th on the front pulley and then the belt looks to be dead straight. Anyway, glad your shit worked out.

This is a shitty photo and I havent even cleaned up the thing, but you get the basic set up. Basically just tying the motor to the trans while giving me a super solid spot to mount my mids off of. Also, they had 3 different length mainshafts for the 4spd trans and my buddy thats an old head said if you have maybe a shorter rear shaft off the trans than the motor pully it would be the opposite of what mine was doing, and pull your belt off the motor pully. maybe something to look into. hope you figure it out man. cheers