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  1. #1
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    Default Question for gun owners who C and C

    OK, with all the shit that is going down in Missouri, I am seriously thinking about getting a conceal and carry permit. One issue comes to mind immediately. I am a gun idiot. I know nothing of guns, and even less about getting a permit. Sure I have a shotgun, ( Winchester Model 12 that was handed down to me) but anyone can operate a shotgun.

    With that in mind, can I get a permit without actually owning a gun? or do I have to buy one first then hit the class? I have a friend who can and does hold classes, but I wanted to get some more opinions before I ask.

    Also, as a total noob, I want to get your thoughts on a first time gun to get. 9 mm? 44 mag? I do not have a fucking idea. Keep in mind I am also very tight on budget.

    Thanks for the help in advance.

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    You usually do not need a gun for a CWL class, but some do require you to bring your own gun. Just depends on who is doing it. As far as carrying. If I was just starting I would get a revolver. Even to this day I carry my 38 just about as much as my 9mm semi auto, and rarely my 1911, it is just to big for the way I am usually dressed. And do not listen to all that say a 9mm is too small to do anything. Modern 9mm defense rounds are just about as good as most 40's. My class was pretty good, he explained alot of the laws about self defense and carry, very enlightening.

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    Different jurisdictions have different rules.

    For example; I live in Orange County, CA. If I am issued a permit, I must pass a written test and qualify with a handgun that is specific to my permit. So if you buy a 3" Springfield XD 9, you qualify with that and it's all you can carry legally in that manner. There's some lawsuits going down right now that's opening up some rules in gun owner's favor, so we'll see...

    You'll get a million opinions on what to carry.

    You need to find the balance of firepower vs. something small enough that you'll actually carry it every day. modern hammerless revolvers have a huge fan base because they work 99.9% of the time when you pull the trigger.

    I work in a rougher area, I like magazine fed with at least 10 rounds. If you need a gun, who knows how many rounds you'll need. I currently have a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm. It's accurate as fuck. 3.5" barrel.

    There's so many variables that everyone will offer a different opinion.

    I own a tiny little revolver. North American Arms .22lr. It has 5 rounds in it. It's not accurate at all. But it was voted as one of the best concealed carry weapons because it's so small. it fits in your pocket and there's no excuse no to carry it.

    I could be wearing a slim fit suit and hide this shit.

    Not sure you'd want to carry a large caliber like 44mag. Remember, accuracy is important. Having the recoil of a WWII deck gun isn't the best in a small framed carry model. At least in my opinion...
    Last edited by CRFyou; 11-26-2014 at 1:19 PM.

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    The best gun is the one carried. Don't get a buffalo gun that you will leave at home 90% of the time. My .380 give me a warm fuzzy. What will give you one?

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    Are you starting to see a theme here? Some of the best advise in the world is on your screen right now. If it's at home in the gun safe when you need it, it's no good. If you don't carry it EVERY day, don't bother because sure as hell the day you need it, it'll be at home. I read somewhere once tha a gun is kinda like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it, you won't need one ever again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grantman View Post
    Are you starting to see a theme here? Some of the best advise in the world is on your screen right now. If it's at home in the gun safe when you need it, it's no good. If you don't carry it EVERY day, don't bother because sure as hell the day you need it, it'll be at home. I read somewhere once tha a gun is kinda like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it, you won't need one ever again.
    I kind of figured that was the way it would unfold. I wanted to confirm my research. Kind of like buying a bike, find one you like and go for it.

  7. #7
    Capino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grantman View Post
    Are you starting to see a theme here? Some of the best advise in the world is on your screen right now. If it's at home in the gun safe when you need it, it's no good. If you don't carry it EVERY day, don't bother because sure as hell the day you need it, it'll be at home. I read somewhere once tha a gun is kinda like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it, you won't need one ever again.
    This little buster is my preferred carry .45 Colt 1991 A1 Compact , small slim and will put down a gorilla or a democrat with one shot.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Capino View Post
    This little buster is my preferred carry .45 Colt 1991 A1 Compact , small slim and will put down a gorilla or a democrat with one shot.

    I think 1911's are one of the most impractical carry guns. Yes they are nice, and I have one, although mine is a full framed 1911. I am going to start modding mine. But I think 1911's are for a lot of the typical american bigger is better thinking. Like I said 1911's are great guns, think anyone with multiple guns should own one, they are fun to to tinker on and modifications that can be done are nearly endless, but there are just so many better, lighter carry guns. Yours is nice and compact, how much does it weigh, do you know? Curious if it is much lighter than a full frame 1911
    Last edited by KeysRyder; 11-26-2014 at 1:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Capino
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeysRyder View Post
    I think 1911's are one of the most impractical carry guns. Yes they are nice, and I have one, although mine is a full framed 1911. I am going to start modding mine. But I think 1911's are for a lot of the typical american bigger is better thinking. Like I said 1911's are great guns, think anyone with multiple guns should own one, they are fun to to tinker on and modifications that can be done are nearly endless, but there are just so many better, lighter carry guns. Yours is nice and compact, how much does it weigh, do you know? Curious if it is much lighter than a full frame 1911
    I have carried either a 5 inch or shorter 1911 exclusively for the last 20 years. I want a round that will stop the fight as quickly and as definitively as possible. The pistol is slim and easy to conceal. The ergonomics, pointablility and location of controls is my idea of perfection.

    If you have the right holster and belt the weight is a non-issue. The most overwhelming reason for carrying the 1911 in my opinion is the trigger. No other handgun can match the 1911 for the first shot accuracy and speed that you can achieve with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capino View Post
    This little buster is my preferred carry .45 Colt 1991 A1 Compact , small slim and will put down a gorilla or a democrat with one shot.
    There's lots of democrats that don't vote in my area of Long Beach(work). We've had a person almost rape a female coworker out front, and various other property crimes. In broad day light.

    This is my rule enforcer I keep in my desk. 1911 has accuracy with a .45 that just works. 3.5 pound trigger, night sights, beveled mag well, polished feed ramp...


  11. #11
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    Do have to admit I do full all warm and fuzzy inside when I am carrying my 1911 in Condition One.

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    Here's my perspective-

    The purpose of carrying a gun for self-defense is- TO STOP A PERSON FROM VIOLENTLY MURDERING YOU. Considering that the stakes of self-defense are no less than life and death, I say that comfort and convenience should be far down on ones list of criteria when choosing a firearm.

    Imagine some 250 lb psychopathic violent ex-con, enraged, high on meth, PCP, steroids, etc, is coming at you with the intent of stomping your brains into the pavement. Or some psychotic homeless guy is coming at you with a knife because you refused to give him some spare change. What type of weapon are you going to want in your hand to try and STOP him?

    Naturally people are limited to what they can carry in their normal daily life, but they do have a wide range of choices. I for one would not want to wind up dead in a pool of blood on the sidewalk, or in some parking lot, because I chose a gun based on what was easiest to carry in my pants pocket all day without noticing it. Instead, I would base my choice on what would give me the best chance of stopping the threat. Self-defense is not a matter of comfort or convenience, it is a matter of survival. I say, choose accordingly.

    The fact is, in real-life self-defense encounters on the street, you will be lucky if you get the chance to act in your own defense at all. Violent attacks can occur with great speed and ferocity. You will be very lucky if you get the chance to draw a weapon at all. And if you are able to draw your weapon, you will be very lucky if you get to fire a single shot before your attacker closes the distance between you and them. The way I was taught is- you might only get the chance to put ONE bullet into your attacker, so make that one bullet count as much as possible, and choose a caliber/round that will cause the greatest damage.

    I personally would not choose anything less than a 9mm with +p hollowpoints. It's been awhile since I've researched ammo, but Federal HST hollowpoints were always my preferred 9mm round.

    There are also other very important things to consider besides what gun to choose. Like for example- your holster/carry method. A gun will be worthless if you can't pull it out before your attacker closes the distance. If an attacker (like the ones I described earlier) are closing the distance, and if you are trying to dig your gun out of your pocket, or if it gets snagged in your clothing, then you won't get to use it, and you'll wind up dead. Choosing the right carry method is just as important as choosing the right gun.

    My advise- seek out a qualified firearms instructor in your area. Besides basic firearms safety and function, you also need to learn the law regarding the use of deadly force and when you are justified in using it, among other things.

    For the record, I am a "violent convicted felon", so I am not able to legally carry, much less own a firearm. But I have a lot of experience with violent criminals, and prior to my "legal troubles" I received quite a bit of defensive firearms training.

    As for my personal experience with carrying a firearm, several years ago I had a beef with a guy. The guy made threats against my life. He was a very dangerous guy and I had good reason to take his threats seriously, so I started carrying guns (illegally because it was impossible to get a carry permit here in San Diego). I had two guns at the time, a snubnose 38 and a 5", all-steel 1911 45. I carried the 1911 in an inside-the-waistband holster condition 1, and the snubnose in my jacket pocket. I had no complaints whatsoever regarding the weight and size of the 1911, because I was carrying it TO SAVE MY LIFE. Instead of being annoyed by the size and weight of the 1911, I liked the fact that I was constantly being reminded of it's presence. The guy who threatened me never did follow through, And after almost two years he went to prison on an unrelated matter, where he later died, so I stopped carrying the guns to avoid winding up being arrested on a weapons charge.

    Get qualified instruction. Best of luck to you.
    Last edited by EVILBLACKSABRE; 11-26-2014 at 8:06 PM.

  13. #13
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    Either way, you have to be proficient with a hand gun, especially for CC. I would go do your written test to get a hand gun permit (if needed in your state) then to a gun range which many of them will rent handguns. Find something you like then make the purchase. Get proficient with that firearm and when you feel comfortable do what ever tests are needed for a CC permit.

    CA requires a written and proficiency hands on shooting test.

    I would at least get a pistol for use at home if needed along with your shotgun.

  14. #14
    Capino
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    This is all you really need to carry.
    Everything else is just bullshit.


  15. #15

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    I have a Ruger .357 that will make a great conceal gun when I get my permit, which takes forever in Illinois. I have considered buying a hammerless .357 to carry instead.
    I love my 1911 but I know I'm more accurate with the .357.

  16. #16
    steelbender80
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    I carry a Sig SP2022 in 9mm. I'm a big guy so concealing a full size pistol isn't hard at all with an IWB holster. I prefer 9mm because the ammo is relatively cheap which allows me to train more which makes me more proficient. The light recoil allows for fast follow up shots. I carry a spare mag too.
    Last edited by steelbender80; 11-27-2014 at 12:25 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53rigid View Post
    OK, with all the shit that is going down in Missouri, I am seriously thinking about getting a conceal and carry permit. One issue comes to mind immediately. I am a gun idiot. I know nothing of guns, and even less about getting a permit. Sure I have a shotgun, ( Winchester Model 12 that was handed down to me) but anyone can operate a shotgun.

    With that in mind, can I get a permit without actually owning a gun? or do I have to buy one first then hit the class? I have a friend who can and does hold classes, but I wanted to get some more opinions before I ask.

    Also, as a total noob, I want to get your thoughts on a first time gun to get. 9 mm? 44 mag? I do not have a fucking idea. Keep in mind I am also very tight on budget.

    Thanks for the help in advance.
    Sounds like you need to learn how to fire and operate a handgun accurately first. Take some basic handgun classes. After that, rent different models and calibers you're interested in to see which you use best. I wouldn't suggest jumping into a .45 with no real background. You will develop bad habits. Most start with a .22, and work their way up. Developing skills for responsible concealed carry shouldn't be taken lightly. Don't get me wrong, I love 1911's. I've owned Wilson Combats, Les Baers, Springfield Professionals, Ed Browns, etc. I just don't recommend them for a total firearm noob.
    Last edited by SpookyCC; 11-26-2014 at 7:49 PM.

  18. #18
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    A lot of ranges these days have rentals. You'll probably have to purchase their ammo to rent one of their guns. I suggest spending some time at the counter talking with the guy. Rent a few handguns. Spend quality time with them. Go with what feels good. Thats gonna be important. You don't want to have to rely on a tool that you're not comfortable using. Anything 9mm and up will do you fine. A .380 is bare minimum. A revolver is ok, but you only get 5 or 6 shots depending on what you carry. And a rapid reload is not nearly as easy on a revolver when you're under pressure.

  19. #19

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    I have a beretta nano 9mm its an excellent pistol these are the specs

    Action Striker
    Barrel length (mm) 78
    Barrel length (in) 3
    Caliber 9x19 (PARA)
    Magazine 6
    Overall height (mm) 106
    Overall height (in) 4.17
    Overall length (mm) 143
    Overall length (in) 5.63
    Overall width (mm) 23
    Overall width (in) 0.9
    Weight unloaded (g) 562
    Weight unloaded (OZ) 19.8


    they come with extened mags so you can have a better grip. the the short mag it is covered almost entierly with my hand mind you im 5'7 so im not that big of a guy. there is nothing that i can snag on there is no release on the side. its a smooth nice gun steel rails. the nose is a bit heavy but it helps a ton with the recoil. it does have some ejecting issues if you dont use the right grain but other than that amazing little 9mm I love the thing.

    mags are 6 and 8 round so 5+1 and 7+1

    ill post pictures in a bit. for your viewing pleaser.

    One more thing that bugs me is the trigger pull is a bit mmmm crunch for a lack of a better word. but once you put enough rounds through the gun and you get used to it. its no problem.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by humancertainty View Post
    I have a Ruger .357 that will make a great conceal gun when I get my permit, which takes forever in Illinois. I have considered buying a hammerless .357 to carry instead.
    I love my 1911 but I know I'm more accurate with the .357.
    Wife carries a .357 Ruger LCR (Light Compact Revolver). 5 shots, shrouded hammer. Very nice piece.

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