Shovelhead Engines. Loved and loathed. Why?

[huffgas]

I think cone shovels are cool for the simple fact that they are the last of the old iron that can still be easily found for a decent price....other than Ironheads of course, but this thread isn't about them.

[Skyhigh88]

not to spark a debate...but im looking at my next project being a shovel. My girl wants a pan for "us", not sure how that's going to fly... but anyways, of all you shovel owners, what would be some good years to look for for a project? From reading all of this, amf leaks like a sob...which whatever.. I guess does anyone have certain models/years theyd use for a build, opposed to others?

Sure a pan would be sweet but $$$

[RetroRob]

Knucks, Pans, Shovels all have souls. 'Nuff said

[Frog]

That engine probably would have made an ugly boat motor (original purpose or so I've read) but in a bike it is second to none in appearance. The whole bike is just right. For me and my likes that is. I have a '77 Superglide and my transmission is on my workbench getting new seals and such. A Harley manual, jam bar, special socket and a hub puller and it's on the bench. I suck as a mechanic but there is something therapeutic about wrenching on this thing. I will be buying a Evo bagger though, to pacify the wife and her creature comforts. The Shovel stays in the garage though. I've had a Shovelhead dresser and Jap bikes but this Superglide is perfection IMO.

For you Evo lovers. The softail would be my second pick with the Evo dresser in third place. I have no desire for a TC.

Ride what you have and I'll catch up to you.

[jbswear]

not to spark a debate...but im looking at my next project being a shovel. My girl wants a pan for "us", not sure how that's going to fly... but anyways, of all you shovel owners, what would be some good years to look for for a project? From reading all of this, amf leaks like a sob...which whatever.. I guess does anyone have certain models/years theyd use for a build, opposed to others?

Sure a pan would be sweet but $$$

Any year will work, really. Any year will leak if still OEM; by now EVERY engine will need SOME work.

The cone engine is a better design, simply because it charges better. Some say the slab side engines are aesthetically more pleasing, but that's just personal preference.

Don't buy into that bullshit idea that anything newer than '84 is shit...or that anything nit Harley is shit. Only idiot cave dwellers and those that fear change sing that song.

[4evrshovel]

I have been riding for 10 years. bought my shovel 2 years ago. I love the shit out of it. only ride my super glide when the ol lady wants to go. I am no mechanic, learn as I go. the day I bought it. on my way home. I was watching a bolt come out of the springer. I find asking people how to fix it is easy. SHOVEL LOVE is a whole different thing than my 06. ride wrench repeat and love every minute of it.

[Guest]

Shovels, pimple shovels are not true shovels. slabs, baby, are the shit. nothing, nothing harley ever madse sounds as tuff as a dialed in slab.. just my opinion.

I agree 100%

[nuklhd]

please, what is a pimple shovel? you kids with your hipster slang.

[farmall]

nothing harley ever madse sounds as tuff as a dialed in slab.. just my opinion.

So how would you tell a cone from a slab apart by audio if they run the same heads, carbs, cam, ignition timing, and pipes if you were blindfolded and can't reach them for a timing cover fondle check? Slabs are certainly prettier.

I have shovels, an evo, and have worked on plenty of both.

Differences between machines are measurable. Effectively, they have the same bottom end and both last fine if you change the fucking oil. Both benefit from oil coolers.
Machining and casting (I won't call automated machining "workmanship", it's to spec or it ain't) on Shovels was often indifferent. Top ends don't last as long as Evos due to not shedding heat very well and meh valve stem support.
You can be slick and keep a spare top end with the parts stash you should be relentlessly accumulating anyway.

Stock carbs get sold/swapped/shitcanned so I've no beef with them. I consider them a shipping plug for the intake manifold.

You can keep Shovels together with Loctite, metal locknuts, and safety wire like anything else. They are old and if threads loosen up repair is in order.

Stock starters were shit. Thanks to this forum I now run All Balls and that hassle is solved.
They can make OK daily riders, but an Evo is less work in most cases.

Self and late wife figured out our "daily driver" formula in the 1980s which works, especially with kick-only bikes which ours were because the electric feet were garbage.

Run LOW static compression just like HD did back in the days of shit gasoline (hmm...that's back too). Easy kicking, low engine wear. less knock, pure win.
Run a longish-duration cam to cut static compression while filling the cylinder better and making more power. Easy kicking, less knock, more balls, pure win.
Throw electronic ignition in the trash for easier kicking, run Blue Streak points/condenser and solid ignition wires (a kit for a small block gets you four sets, cut to fit). Keep a spare advance unit and points in a bag with your spare coil.
No non-race HD spins fast enough to outrun points designed for many more cycles on V-8 engines. Points troubleshoot instantly, and are easy to time by ear after adusting by eyeball.
Coils will crack due to vibration. You WILL buy more so do it in advance. Agricultural engines don't need exotic parts. Take advantage of the simplicity!
Go up two teeth on the trans sprocket and drop four on the rear. Taller gearing makes them much more reasonable on the highway and Shovel clutches are stout. A Tamer and long bearing kit are cheap and improve feel.
I don't buy specialty clutches, do buy Barnett plates and cables, and keep a cable saver in da toolbag.

Many problems with older Harleys come from people fucking with them unwisely rather than thoughtfully upgrading them to ride, but unlike British bikes which are delicate junk with severe design deficiencies (doesn't exclude being pretty and fun when they run), Shovels can be a practical ride. Been there done that.

Still prefer my Evo FXR but I'll keep the Shovels.

Leakage:

Clean up your mating surfaces when you are in there and use quality gaskets. I've gotten away with reusing Fel-Pro blue head gaskets in an emergency by spraying with copper coat.

Minor seepage doesn't matter on jet fighters and I ain't chasing it on a motorcycle. If you have a porous crankcase and are anal, the ancient hotrod trick of cleaning it thoroughly then painting the inside with Glyptal does work. Don't fuck up the prep or that lovely motor varnish will visit your oil pump instead.

The sealant of the gods is aircraft fuel tank sealant. You can get it from Aircraft Spruce. Before HazMat tracking bullshit took over we disposed of "expired" sealant by carrying it off and using it. If you have aircraft mech buddies ask about it since they may have some handy. It's flexible, and cares not about fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid, or much of anything else. It's a bitch to remove but if you have a joint you really don't want to seep or leak it's awesome. Make a blob and cut that in half after cure time is up so you know the sealant in your joint is cured too.

[bnalm11b]

they run hot and quit in traffic, they can't run long distances at high rpm without getting....u guessed it...too hot. I've only owned a mint 79' FXE for a year and put 8k miles on it. transmission leaks and thier is no real fix, inferior 3 finger clutch, weak electrical system. If you debug all the problem areas they'll be reliable to a point. But are they worth throwing that much money at? NO. But what brings everyone back is that sound, everytime....

[Frog]

they run hot and quit in traffic, they can't run long distances at high rpm without getting....u guessed it...too hot. I've only owned a mint 79' FXE for a year and put 8k miles on it. transmission leaks and thier is no real fix, inferior 3 finger clutch, weak electrical system. If you debug all the problem areas they'll be reliable to a point. But are they worth throwing that much money at? NO. But what brings everyone back is that sound, everytime....

There is a fix for the leaking transmission. A man up in Canada makes spacers with an integrated o-ring and it does work. For a mint '79 you sure had a lot of issues. I ride my bike, in AZ, in 115 degree heat and it has never stopped in traffic or overheated to the point of not running. Maybe I got a good one.

They are old technology but I enjoy the hell out of mine. It's about the looks, the ride, the sound and even the upkeep. If you didn't get that out of yours you did the right thing in selling it.

[farmall]

They do get hot in traffic (as do Evos though less so), but at speed the solution is the same for any air-cooled engine. A good, black oil cooler. If in doubt, go bigger.

Clutch stud mod is cheap and normal when replacing those wear parts by attrition. Shit, hubs are so cheap there's no need for individual stud addition/replacement unless ya just like doing it.

Weak electrical system? Maybe if you run lots of extra lights.

Swapping all that is cheap unless you pay a shop to do it, in which case don't own a Shovel or other older motorcycle. Old Jap bikes can be brutal to buy NOS parts for and have far more maintenance nightmares than simple Shovels. Spend time attempting to un-fuck a trashed Gold Wing and Shovels suddenly look comforting and easy. Wing engines last a very long time but the rest of the motorcycle, especially electrics, can be a motherfucker! A double motherfucker with extra suffering if the previous owner wired a bunch of shit to it with wire nuts, tap connectors, and duct tape. You can literally wire a basic Shovel harness from memory if you don't feel like grabbing one of many online wiring diagrams so throwing a fucked old harness away is often the fastest route to sound wiring. Replacing Wing starters is also a joy, especially if you knock that little sprocket off the chain when you install the starter. We won't even go into starter clutches...

Quick internet and Ebay searches yield these current prices:

5 STUD INNER CLUTCH HUB WITH LONG ROLLER BEARINGS FOR BIG TWIN 1941-84 = about 90 bucks with long bearing kit.

Clutch tamer kit = http://www.jpcycles.com/product/620-685 $62.99

Complete Cycle Electric alternator kit w. stator, rotor, and regulator = about 380 shipped , more if you want more than 22A stock. I use these on my FXR and Shovels since they ain't dressers. No problems, been buying Cycle Electric parts for multiple brands for many years.

Oil cooler - Nowadays I'd buy a nice riceburner oil cooler, price varies greatly. Still run my old Lockharts and those are plentiful used for cheap, but the bigger Jap ATV and bike oil radiator sizes and better mounting are appealing.

Throw in a gasket kit and some duplicates like primary gaskets for bench stock, a complete points and advance kit, and other logical spares and it's still not large money.

None of those parts are difficult to install with basic wrenching skills and patience.

BTW a Pan isn't any worse to care for than a Shovel if it isn't ragged out. Actually take care of your generator (that brush inspection band is there for inspection, not just "finding out why the generator doesn't work").

[Sky]

Love 'em
If my Shovel won't cooperate, I can only be mad at myself.

[nuklhd]

of course if your clutch basket is worn replace it. a good used 3 finger original is better than a new 5 finger. i have ran both and still cant figure out the reason for 5 if you properly set up the 3 finger. i do have a tamer in my pan which i like.
the fellow mentioned from canada ray has a great step by step procedure to get your tranny leak free. i can find the link somewhere if anyone is interested.

[Sky]

Not to Hijack, but has anyone here used the Ray Spacer themselves. First hand feedback please.
Case in point. "SuperNuts" seem to be a hit or miss, if you've got clearance to fit one, that is.