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I am trying to time a 1971 tr6r. I got the top dead center tool to find the 38. but not sure how to time it. i got the book but dont really make sence to me. can anyone help. rebuilt the motor so tried to start it for first time but it spudders and some time back fires. can anyone help
put the bike on the center stand and in 3rd gear, pull the plugs, take the timing plug out and put the pin tool in and turn the wheel in the forward direction the first notch that comes up should be 38 BTC the second notch should be TDC. you can verify this by putting a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and rocking the wheel back and forth feeling for TDC. you can also look in the primary cover timing cover and see the pointer line up with a line on the rotor, that too is 38 BTC.
correct me if I am wrong Torch ,I believe if your on TDC ,it should be static timed, (within a degree or two) it should fire up . (so long as your points are adjusted correctly and they are in functional order), with it running,you'll want to throw a timing light on it to ensure you are right on. If the points are what is causing it to stammer,spit,and backfire, try adjusting/cleaning them, or get rid of them all together and go with a more reliable ignition system such as TriSpark ,Pazon , Sparx , or Boyer ,Electronic Ignition. If you just insist on keeping the points ,(I know some guys are just like that) be prepared to have to fuck with them on a more than regular basis.
i dont understand do i take the points off and then find tdc. and then put them back on. i dont understand what u physically do with the points after i find top dead center.
There is a difference between 38 degrees BTC & TDC.... .........the difference being ..........38 degrees
38degrees BTC = 38 degrees Before Top Center
TDC = Top Dead Center
you want to insert the timing tool into the timing port where you removed the bolt, do as Torch described, with the tool inserted the first hole should be 38d BTC ,(meaning that TDC is located on the timing side spark plug hole) , there should be a timing mark under the timing plate (that small triangle plate that says Triumph on it ,to the left of where the points housing is ) the timing mark (a line,or shallow groove) should line up with the bottom of the small triangle opening.
the points are what sends the electrical charge to your plug to make them spark (via the condenser)
the points will need to be clean,free of dirt ,oil, or debris, the contact points should show no signs of burning or charring , and can be cleaned with emery cloth or fine grit (500 grit?)sandpaper, the points have a specific gap between the contact points (for each point) and should be set to the proper gap.
the idea is to have the timing side (thats the right side if yer sitting on it) spark plug fire at precisely TDC
find 38 degrees BTDC that is were you want the timing to start ....So basically like torch said find the notch in the crank that is 38 check see if the points are starting to crack open ...set them there see if it runs ..then use the timing light to check your marks on your stator for your fine timing tuning
many years the cranks had two notches, the first one is 38BTC, the second notch is TDC, never set your timing on the TDC notch !!, only on the 38BTC notch.
Then it gets a little bit more complicated than that with a points set up.
First off you need to set the point gap on the small line mark on the advance rotor of each set of points
then start with the timing, the first notch on the crank timing point is 38* BTC, that should also make the line on the rotor and the pointer line up. then you need to go over to the points and take the advance unit and turn it clockwise into the full advance position,this can be done with a washer and removing the center bolt, then you need to check to see which set of points is just about to open, then with the points adjusting screws you need to use a points contact light and adjust them so the crack open and then rotate the engine 360 degrees and do it again,
depending on what year timing plate you have it can take a while to get them right on the money,the 69 and later ones are easier and it takes me about 45 minutes to properly gap and time a points ignition and I've been doing them for a long time.
It all needs to verified with a strobe light and the advance unit has to be checked by running up the revs to about 3000 RPM.
The best thing you can do is get a manual and really read the timing instructions, timing a set of points is not a job for the meek. when the are done correctly their great, when the are done wrong they burn a hole in the pistons.
many people just give up on points and install an electronic ignition just because it is so fucking much easier the set the timing.
what ever you do don't assume it's correct, verify the timing with a strobe light..!
personally I decided I didnt want to have to mess with the points every time I decided to ride somewhere and went with one of the aforementioned Electronic Ignitions. SOOOO MUCH EASIER.
I apologize for misguiding by saying it should fire timing side plug @ TDC, it should be 38BTC ,an honest mistake.
One of my buddies rode his T100 like 400 mile last weekend and in the middle of nowhere the mag base slipped . He told me since he had this tool he was able to retime the base and mag in no time at all on the side of the rode .
Yeah, my mag base came loose on the way to Winnemucca on a run, luckily I have one of Trumpnut's timing tools (an earlier version) setup. Just pulled the mag, put the tool in the spark plug hole, and timed back in after I got the base tight. You need to turn the points base until the lobe just starts to open the points at the 38 BTDC, then tighten the base down. After that part is done, then you have to rotate the engine to where thepoints are on the high point of the lobe (full open) and set the gap by loosening the points from the base and adjusting.
You also adjust timing for altitude and such, 38 is just a start point to get it close. I think mine is timed at 37 BTDC.
I am running a morris mag now and only have one set of points to do, I have never done the setup with dual points. Mag, points, electronic, they all work. Our experience with the electronic ones is they don't stand up to the abuse and vibration of a hardtail, and when they fail your stuck. Buy an extra set of points and throw them in the tool bag-they're cheap, and learn how to time your bike, and you can do it on the side of the road.
Good luck!
I think I have a earlier version of that tool but don't have the chart. Any way I can get you to email me a copy?
Sorry but my chart works with my tool design , since I did the wholedesign . Not knowing what the thread pitch is on you tool the chart would be useless . You can set it up with a deg.
fuck all ya gota do is insert a screwdriver ect into the plug hole pointing str8 up turn motor till piston tdc mark screwdriver where it s level with edge of plughole then measure 7/16th up from there & mark rotate engine till your marks at said plug lip on fireing stroke , set your points to open on the mark thats 7/16 ths befor tdc have your plug conected to the lead ignition on plug fires when points open at 7/16 ths ,whamo shes timed
fuck all ya gota do is insert a screwdriver ect into the plug hole pointing str8 up turn motor till piston tdc mark screwdriver where it s level with edge of plughole then measure 7/16th up from there & mark rotate engine till your marks at said plug lip on fireing stroke , set your points to open on the mark thats 7/16 ths befor tdc have your plug conected to the lead ignition on plug fires when points open at 7/16 ths ,whamo shes timed
That depends on the pistons ! Different crowns have different measuremnents . If the plug hole was straight up and down then that method would always be true but since the plug hole is angled and different piston crown shapes you need a dead stop . Though your way can do it in a jam .
1. Set the points plates in the center of the slots.
2. Find the highest lift that the points open and that gap is now open to set to spec.
3. I now install my tool a the 38° slot.
4. I jam my advance all the way open with an aluminum crush washer. I have to pull the bolt out. Open the advance, tighten the bolt so it squeezes the advance fully open.
5. I now move my backing plate for the main plate to open that gap as I move the main plate in the direction that opens the points.
6. I have my test light on and it goes off @ 38° BTDC.
7. I double check as I pull the advance tool, have it in gear to run the advance back. I now move the wheel; watch the light go off.
8. I now install my advance key and oh look! It falls right in the crank's slot!
9. I repeat the process by turning the engine over one time by a 360° turn.
10. I now repeat the process with the tiny set of points plate .i.e., I open close the points gap [if] no backing plate is used. Then it is points open to shut off light.
11. Oh shit look at that! I install the crank tool and the light shut off, I couldn't be more on the money.
12. I now remove my crush washer from the advancer so it moves back to idle.
13. I should kick start is with one push down on the kicker, I have good compression and a well adjusted carb and/or sunk via twin carb slides move equally and idle with slides about turned in the same number of turns.
That depends on the pistons ! Different crowns have different measuremnents . If the plug hole was straight up and down then that method would always be true but since the plug hole is angled and different piston crown shapes you need a dead stop . Though your way can do it in a jam .
7/16 is 7/16 no mater how high the crown & thats why you hold the srewdriver str8 up an down try it move your scredriver to dif parts of the piston and it will always be 7/16 just make sure you have the screwdriver in the same position as you marked it , an old time racer showd me this way yrs ago , allways done it that way after that quick an easy
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