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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80cui View Post
    Is this legal in state of California ?
    Sure it can be legal with a blue tag.............

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by 80cui View Post
    Attachment 107876

    Is this legal in state of California ? 42.80.400 cast, machined and built some time 2010 ish

    they never had frame numbers , Engine number is the only identity , apart from they never built any in 1942, even 1941 is a stretch
    If the there is a title with the motor no blue tag needed. The motor number is the vin in this case

  3. #43
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    That bike is newer than a Gilroy Indian or a Big Dog, its not a vintage bike, its a clone/ replica.

    its got drum brakes, no indicators, a carb , no smog control, magneto, no cat converter, no testing.
    there are no previous owners for any "1942" Crocka especially that one

  4. #44
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    I have a bike the engine has a right Panhead case . Left Shovelhead alternator case . The numbers have been stamped onto the left case as if they were on the Panhead . It has a Oklahoma title . I bought it at a auction. I learned it was the second auction it's been through in 15 years . I was told by the local HD dealer don't take it to big meets outside the state and to carry a copy of the tittle with the bike

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiepete42 View Post
    I was told by the local HD dealer don't take it to big meets outside the state and to carry a copy of the tittle with the bike
    That was a common upgrade years ago...... But....... The dealer is correct....... I wouldn't go to Daytona if I were you............. But it's your money......

  6. #46
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    Money? The word felony comes to mind, especially since this is the SECOND TIME the bike has been to auction!

    I do know that the DMV wants your money so they'll title anything. You know who also wants your money? The county magistrate. He'll say "ignorance is no defense" hit impound, auction, and throw your ass in the clink.

    Best to play your cards right, keep it in darkness, parts bin, ebay sells titles (IF it's not in your name). A titled shovel frame is cheap, swap everything over, just get that title off the motor. Play it right and you'd likely come out ahead. Maybe I'm being over dramatic, but if it were me? Definitely not ride it on the street be-it okie, KS, Florida, parking it, whatever situation. Take a step back and leave it in the shed.
    Last edited by seaking; 12-30-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  7. #47

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    You aint gonna like this............ Whether you agree or not with the laws, or think no one will ever notice: The jailhouse is full of guys that had that same thought. People say they reason they wrench and ride is for a sense of freedom. I cant see how you would feel that way with any kind of possible risk of getting busted

    Cops dont care or wont notice? A fucked up VIN is a cops dream. Its a good bust, period, and thats how they move up

    As much as I hate the DMV, guess what? You really need to go in person and talk with the DMV, instead of trying to go around them. You dont have to give details. Just tell them you are thinking about buying a bike, you talked over the phone with a guy that has it, and this is what he has etc............... The hard part then is to decide what to do should they say "no way"

    Fuck talking with an HD dealer . They aint gonna get you a lawyer, or visit you in jail should shit go sideways. I bought a NEW, 1989 softail in '89 off the dealer floor" I had that bike for over 15 years. When I went to sell it, guess what? The VIN on the frame and motor did NOT match the title: It was one number wrong. I remeber when I bought it I was so excited, I just glanced at the paper work with stars in my eyes: Come to find the HD dealer fucked up the paperwork, and I didnt catch it the entire time I owned it. Luckily, I never got stopped by the man once on that bike. But lets go one step further: I rode that bike EVERYWHERE. If I had gotten caught, imagine what the next steps wouldve been, even worse if I was out of state: Imagine that instead of imagining ways to get over. In the very minimum a stint in the local jail, the bike belongs to the state and possible felony arrest record and killer attorney fees

    How did I find out my VIN was fucked? When I advertised to sell it 15 years later. Of course the potential buyer noticed it, and ran away as fast as he could, and I freaked. So I went to the dealer, pissed, noyt knowing WTF. But they got squared away in like 5 minutes, and got everything right

    With the time you have spent on this post, you couldve talked with the DMV rep and gotten a straght answer. The key with the DMV is to go in person, act nice, take big notes on who you talked to and dates/ times.......

    I think a maj of the laws and regulations suck. But guess why the laws are so strick on VINS? Because rightous people get their bikes stolen, thats why.......... And that includes me: 2 stolen in ten years

    I beleive you are balancing a budget with risk taking. Never a good idea when it comes to a possible felony

    Sorry if Im redundant, or missed pionts given to you so far on your post.

    Ride free, not on old memories in jail

    Good luck

  8. #48
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    good post, thanks

    as for that "Crocka" it has a number plate that probably does not belong to it, but if it does, the owner has lied to DMV, fake engine stamp

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmel View Post
    You aint gonna like this............ Whether you agree or not with the laws, or think no one will ever notice: The jailhouse is full of guys that had that same thought. People say they reason they wrench and ride is for a sense of freedom. I cant see how you would feel that way with any kind of possible risk of getting busted

    Cops dont care or wont notice? A fucked up VIN is a cops dream. Its a good bust, period, and thats how they move up

    As much as I hate the DMV, guess what? You really need to go in person and talk with the DMV, instead of trying to go around them. You dont have to give details. Just tell them you are thinking about buying a bike, you talked over the phone with a guy that has it, and this is what he has etc............... The hard part then is to decide what to do should they say "no way"

    Fuck talking with an HD dealer . They aint gonna get you a lawyer, or visit you in jail should shit go sideways. I bought a NEW, 1989 softail in '89 off the dealer floor" I had that bike for over 15 years. When I went to sell it, guess what? The VIN on the frame and motor did NOT match the title: It was one number wrong. I remeber when I bought it I was so excited, I just glanced at the paper work with stars in my eyes: Come to find the HD dealer fucked up the paperwork, and I didnt catch it the entire time I owned it. Luckily, I never got stopped by the man once on that bike. But lets go one step further: I rode that bike EVERYWHERE. If I had gotten caught, imagine what the next steps wouldve been, even worse if I was out of state: Imagine that instead of imagining ways to get over. In the very minimum a stint in the local jail, the bike belongs to the state and possible felony arrest record and killer attorney fees

    How did I find out my VIN was fucked? When I advertised to sell it 15 years later. Of course the potential buyer noticed it, and ran away as fast as he could, and I freaked. So I went to the dealer, pissed, noyt knowing WTF. But they got squared away in like 5 minutes, and got everything right

    With the time you have spent on this post, you couldve talked with the DMV rep and gotten a straght answer. The key with the DMV is to go in person, act nice, take big notes on who you talked to and dates/ times.......

    I think a maj of the laws and regulations suck. But guess why the laws are so strick on VINS? Because rightous people get their bikes stolen, thats why.......... And that includes me: 2 stolen in ten years

    I beleive you are balancing a budget with risk taking. Never a good idea when it comes to a possible felony

    Sorry if Im redundant, or missed pionts given to you so far on your post.

    Ride free, not on old memories in jail

    Good luck
    So much truth in that post.

    I've done time, both county and state, and I can't count how many guys I heard inside say "I never thought I'd get caught".

    On the subject of DMV mistakes, I found out the hard way that I had received the wrong license plate for one of my bikes. I was being arrested at my home for an unrelated matter and the cops ran the VIN's and license plates on my two bikes. I thought they were shitting me when they told me the license plate I had for 4 years on one bike had been reported stolen. Turned out the DMV sent me the wrong plate, one of the numbers was one digit off from what it was supposed to be. I never noticed. I never bothered to check.

    Since the person who was supposed to receive that plate didn't, and since it had never been returned, the DMV reported it stolen. My bike was impounded.

    But as luck would have it, the cops violated one of my Constitutional rights when they arrested me so my lawyer was able to negotiate the release of my bike without any charges related to the plate, and without me having to pay any impound fees or fines. After bailing out I got a new plate and picked up my bike (it was in impound for 2 and a half months before I could get it out).

    My reason for telling this story- Everyone should check their VIN and license plate numbers against their registration. You don't want to find out the hard way that the DMV made a mistake. Mistakes happen, and they can cost you.

    EDIT: Damn, I just remembered, one of the registration cards I received for one of my bikes had the wrong VIN. It was a typo, I just happened to compare my reg to my insurance card, noticed the difference, then checkedthe bike. I had to take my bike down to the DMV to sort it out. They had to give it a full inspection to make sure it was up to code before they would issue a new registration. Lucky for me the woman doing the inspection didn't know bikes and failed to notice that I had removed the California emissions control crap.
    Last edited by EVILBLACKSABRE; 01-03-2021 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #50
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    another good post. Experience in the real world

  11. #51
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    A non-original mixed case setup isn't valuable so the easy way is a new set of aftermarket cases with an MSO and crossload the other parts. Choppin' ain't restorin' so no big deal and the right side case can be worth a few bucks.

    Does the mystery "pan" live in a later frame with numbers matching the title? Paperwork proving the auction trail would be wise to keep. Since it was an auction buy it might be profitable to part out. It's only a motorcycle and all they are is money on wheels.

    Never marry what you can pimp, especially if it has drug-resistant Hep C. I'd measure by dollars and do what's smart because money is honest.

  12. #52
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    I will never admit to more a academic interest but if you want to do a numbers job right here is the procedure.
    First the weld must be absolutely prefect! This means that whoever does the tig work must have an exact same case to practice on. Torch selection, rod selection, amount of preheat. technique all affect color and the color match must be exact without any grain variation. If necessary saw some rod from your practice case. If the original boss was machined flat Your reproduction must be machined also, nobody is good enough with a grinder or file to fool a good eye. There are many blaster procedures but usually start with steel shot about the same size as the casting sand pits in the cast ( these vary my manufacturer model and brand ) then varying grades of sand and ending with overall glass beading of both case halves. Unless you need to match a particular factory finish. Jap diecast cases can sometimes be finished with wet leather under a plate of steel and a hammer. Unless you can obtain a set of factory stamps you have to make your own close ain't even anywhere good enough to not bite you in the butt. Find the number you need on other bikes ( be sure they are exact) then either using dry erase marker or grease transfer the number or letter to the end of a piece of key stock then immediately scribe the edges of the transfer as you relieve the key stock with your chosen tool usually including die grinder, Dremel, file diamond riffer file scraper, etc. continually check that you are matching the slope of the sides. Now think before you stamp if the factory hand stamped induvial characters or used a fixture you got to copy it!!! Practice on that case you ruined learning to match the weld and surface pattern.
    Now feel free to write us from Jail!
    Dusty
    Last edited by DustyDave; 01-03-2021 at 3:53 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyDave View Post
    First the weld must be absolutely prefect!
    There is no need to do that, it isn't needed...... All that can do is warp or crack the case if it isn't done correctly.........

  14. #54
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    I am unaware of anyway to remove the old numbers without changing the height of the boss. Please enlighten us.
    Dusty

  15. #55
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sorry but that info doesn't need to be out there. No grinding, welding or fileing is needed but I ain't telling.

  16. #56
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    Serious Question..

    A LEO thinks your 6 looks funny.. And maybe the 3 is a little too crooked, or straight, or flat, or not deep enough, or this or that.. So, what?


    That's a pretty subjective reason to take a titled, otherwise legal, motorcycle away from someone.

    I'm not at all sure that would hold up in court.

  17. #57
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    PS: When you make a claim like this and grab someone's bike, the burden of proof falls on you.

    As the officer who confiscated this motorcycle, what will you say when it ends up in court? (And if you grab a ten or fifteen thousand dollar motorcycle, that's exactly where it is going to end up.)

    "Well, you see, your honor.. Back in the 1940's, all Harley stamps were completely standardized and dealers all did exactly the same thing and you can tell from looking which ones are fakes."

    "How do you know this?"

    "I'm an internet expert, your honor.. Your majesty.. Sir.."

    "I see..."


    Additionally:

    If a bike came from an auction, a judge has very likely ruled that a title be issued to the number on the bike.

    They can do that and "1234567FULOL" becomes a valid VIN#. Just like custom construction.

    It will probably kill your resale value, so that's a good enough reason not to do it. But, I don't know that a funny looking VIN is enough for a cop to just take your scoot away on his own wherewithal or original research.

    I guess if they really wanted to, they could do destructive, forensic testing on it. They better not come up empty or, then what?

    Now they took your bike and damaged it for no good reason.
    Last edited by confab; 01-04-2021 at 8:34 AM.

  18. #58
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    If someone welded using original case material and got good fusion, finished the work then let the outside surface get slightly corroded to match the visual effects of aging it would require skilled destructive inspection (not just slicing the area with a saw) like taking a micrograph of a machined cut.

    Anyone with the skill level to do it right can make plenty of money and doesn't need to rip off motorcycles when they can sell casting repair services and buy whatever they like easier than restoring it plus coke and hookers for morale.

    A fix good enough to pass Barney Fife at the roadside isn't necessarily good enough to pass a skilled observer with a magnifying glass and bright light, and of course da belly #s have to be correct.

    Someone dedicated could probably manage a modern metallic structural epoxy or polymer filler (the high end $tuff like Belzona or Reynolds) fill and stamp but getting the color match would be challenging. At that level there's still no point in turning to crime.

    All this discussion is legit because serious bad guys already know how to do it but good guys usually don't know how to inspect for it!
    Obscurity is not security.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    If someone welded using original case material and got good fusion, finished the work then let the outside surface get slightly corroded to match the visual effects of aging it would require skilled destructive inspection (not just slicing the area with a saw) like taking a micrograph of a machined cut.

    Anyone with the skill level to do it right can make plenty of money and doesn't need to rip off motorcycles when they can sell casting repair services and buy whatever they like easier than restoring it plus coke and hookers for morale.

    A fix good enough to pass Barney Fife at the roadside isn't necessarily good enough to pass a skilled observer with a magnifying glass and bright light, and of course da belly #s have to be correct.

    Someone dedicated could probably manage a modern metallic structural epoxy or polymer filler (the high end $tuff like Belzona or Reynolds) fill and stamp but getting the color match would be challenging. At that level there's still no point in turning to crime.

    All this discussion is legit because serious bad guys already know how to do it but good guys usually don't know how to inspect for it!
    Obscurity is not security.
    Surely he isn't considering epoxy to old oil impregnated aluminum that never ends well and shows under UV light. No matter how well it is cleaned and etched it eventually delaminates. Heat cycles hasten this process.
    Dusty

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