need help with VOES

[Woodbutcher]

My vacuum tip on my VOES has been broken off and the port on my S&S intake is capped off,

I was just reading Tom's article in the new issue of the Horse and it says I need to do something with the lead?
What do I need to do with it?
Currently it is plugged in to the harness with no vacuum to it, my bike starts fine, and ai had no ping or knock this summer, but the low end hesitation is getting annoying.
Do I need to replace it or can it work fine without it?

I have a 2001 883 with an S&S super "E" carb, and cant find anything in my manual about it.

Any help would be appreciated.
Sean

[Guest]

Spark box has that violet color wire for the VOES is los.
Ground is the other wire out the VOES is los.

Take a tube and shove it over the broken intake part of the VOES is broke.
If you buy a decent glue like GOOP brand glue to keep that tube over the VOES is fixed, you can hook that line up with a hose to the S&S intake receiver for that VOES is working now.

No more hez on take off. The vacuum, pulls advance forward more on the suck so you VOESit up a bit like linear sm000000000000ooth. Trick little 1's and 0's in the early stages is the VOES is lost me... Ya lost me again!

[Woodbutcher]

What ? does that mean?
Am I supposed to cross the wires?, or make a new vacuum nipple and run it?

[Rudehog]

A majority of the bike mechanics and "do-it-yourselfers" dont understand what the VOES is or does.
Vacuum Operated Electronic Switch and all it does is ground or unground a wire that will advance timing when grounded and retard timing when ungrounded.

Why does it matter? when an engine is under load ( pulling away from a stop or pulling a steep hill or any quick burst of throttle) the timing needs to retard a bit so there is less strain on the engine while it tries to reach a crusing speed and at that time the engine is not straining and the voes grounds the wire and advances the timing for more power at cruise.

Will it work without it? oh yea it will but gas milage and response is reduced.

If you cant fix the one you have get another one from the dealer, this part no# should work

P/N 26566-91

Hope this makes sense....

-Eric

[Guest]

Am I supposed to cross the wires?, or make a new vacuum nipple and run it?

Yes and yes.

I think you got it. So watt is the whatheFor?

1. Home depot/walmart has the glue. Whatever you see on my bike, I do not drill out my frame for jobbers I am a glue sniffing leave that to the whack jobs. I am forced to sniff a little during the work process. To find out if the VOES is not burned out, you are going to know right off because you know your base tune or that stumble. Once you toss the VOES, either it's still there and the VOES is junk or you junked the wire route.

2. It is not rocket science. It says I have a VOES with two wires. One is ground black in color with an eyelet. The other is black, but has the male/female ends so there is no mix up. The purple/violet color connects to the other black out of the VOES and that is hot to the black box's violet wire out of that unit.



See the 3-way ground? Ground Main-VOES-Black box = 3 grounds.
See the other wire have the stock male/female connectors but you cannot see the violet wire for the VOES to BOX.

OK, here is more on the VOES: There is a drum [call it] inside that VOES. That ear drum is wired up to that drum skin kind of signal. Pull on the signal via vacuum, this drum skin or watt is more called a wafer; So, the wafer is buckled under load. This sends a volt type signal to the box.

Here in the fuel injected world, that intake unit is still used. It runs in 10th of volts from 0.0 to 5.0v. Say it more runs like a rheostat at the wall socket kind of switch. So, sensor wise with the rheostat TPS is a throttle position sensor. The VOES is now called the IAP [intake air pressure] sensor.

But that is FI and we are still with carb here. That one VOES is the beginning stages of acting like an advance curve in the vacuum pull of it. Now, I do not know that article or how that abstract is written. But I am going to ask a few questions to take your abstract of the, 'on/off switching of the VOES' is how so?

If I take a timing light to a mechanical advance, will it show a linear rise to full advance from say idle? I've seen the timing light do just that. If I take a theory and now apply that to the VOES where we have an on/off idle/advance like a light switch on and off or is it like a rheostat kind of linear switch?

Switch theory will you buy, if I keep throwing in the shit you can read is all jacked to shit so you can wit the shit did that other guy states his theory, as opposed to hub is about to lap someone if that article is all on/off switching LOOK DA FUCK OUT! DIS ain't no drag off the tech on jj style! OH NO!

So, as you see the glue marks at the wire or no glue [shown] holding the VOES in place, we are back to watching that timing light run that advance in a linear mode, not... HELLO? NOT in an; ON it's retard. OFF, your neck snaps to advance

Can we agree that no engine snaps from retard to advance VOESyle, hello? We have that wafer under buckle. Watch it eventually neutralize to full advance. It is linear in movement like a mechanical spring advancer. That wafer acts the springs so the advance does not light switch but gradually, you with a timing light, sees the VOES copy a mechanical advance on the way to full advance.

OK, what happens if the VOEShits goes belly up? Throw a timing light on it and see.

[KrOwN]

Yes and yes.

I think you got it. So watt is the whatheFor?

1. Home depot/walmart has the glue. Whatever you see on my bike, I do not drill out my frame for jobbers I am a glue sniffing leave that to the whack jobs. I am forced to sniff a little during the work process. To find out if the VOES is not burned out, you are going to know right off because you know your base tune or that stumble. Once you toss the VOES, either it's still there and the VOES is junk or you junked the wire route.

2. It is not rocket science. It says I have a VOES with two wires. One is ground black in color with an eyelet. The other is black, but has the male/female ends so there is no mix up. The purple/violet color connects to the other black out of the VOES and that is hot to the black box's violet wire out of that unit.



See the 3-way ground? Ground Main-VOES-Black box = 3 grounds.
See the other wire have the stock male/female connectors but you cannot see the violet wire for the VOES to BOX.

OK, here is more on the VOES: There is a drum [call it] inside that VOES. That ear drum is wired up to that drum skin kind of signal. Pull on the signal via vacuum, this drum skin or watt is more called a wafer; So, the wafer is buckled under load. This sends a volt type signal to the box.

Here in the fuel injected world, that intake unit is still used. It runs in 10th of volts from 0.0 to 5.0v. Say it more runs like a rheostat at the wall socket kind of switch. So, sensor wise with the rheostat TPS is a throttle position sensor. The VOES is now called the IAP [intake air pressure] sensor.

But that is FI and we are still with carb here. That one VOES is the beginning stages of acting like an advance curve in the vacuum pull of it. Now, I do not know that article or how that abstract is written. But I am going to ask a few questions to take your abstract of the, 'on/off switching of the VOES' is how so?

If I take a timing light to a mechanical advance, will it show a linear rise to full advance from say idle? I've seen the timing light do just that. If I take a theory and now apply that to the VOES where we have an on/off idle/advance like a light switch on and off or is it like a rheostat kind of linear switch?

Switch theory will you buy, if I keep throwing in the shit you can read is all jacked to shit so you can wit the shit did that other guy states his theory, as opposed to hub is about to lap someone if that article is all on/off switching LOOK DA FUCK OUT! DIS ain't no drag off the tech on jj style! OH NO!

So, as you see the glue marks at the wire or no glue [shown] holding the VOES in place, we are back to watching that timing light run that advance in a linear mode, not... HELLO? NOT in an; ON it's retard. OFF, your neck snaps to advance

Can we agree that no engine snaps from retard to advance VOESyle, hello? We have that wafer under buckle. Watch it eventually neutralize to full advance. It is linear in movement like a mechanical spring advancer. That wafer acts the springs so the advance does not light switch but gradually, you with a timing light, sees the VOES copy a mechanical advance on the way to full advance.

OK, what happens if the VOEShits goes belly up? Throw a timing light on it and see.

[Woodbutcher]

A majority of the bike mechanics and "do-it-yourselfers" dont understand what the VOES is or does.
Vacuum Operated Electronic Switch and all it does is ground or unground a wire that will advance timing when grounded and retard timing when ungrounded.

Why does it matter? when an engine is under load ( pulling away from a stop or pulling a steep hill or any quick burst of throttle) the timing needs to retard a bit so there is less strain on the engine while it tries to reach a crusing speed and at that time the engine is not straining and the voes grounds the wire and advances the timing for more power at cruise.

Will it work without it? oh yea it will but gas milage and response is reduced.

If you cant fix the one you have get another one from the dealer, this part no# should work

P/N 26566-91

Hope this makes sense....


-Eric

Thanks,
I understand what it does and know what it is making my engine do but I know that alot of people strip most of the electronics from their Sporty's so I guess I was asking if it is best to leave it on (buy another one ) or remove it and fix the wiring issue?
I could also replace the ignition.
I am putting on 04 1200 heads, 1200 pistons and cylinders, and put in some N4/V4 cams this winter.
so should I just leave it be until then? the only issue right now is the throttle response, I am getting 49 MPG and it does not ping.
Sean

[rustrocket84]

I think try and fix it,like the mad scientist stated, and if it doesn't work just buy a new ignition this winter when you do all the other upgrades, or buy an ignition now that'll work well with your planned upgrades. I ran a Dyna 2000 on my first bike and liked it a lot.

[Guest]

so should I just leave it be until then? the only issue right now is the throttle response, I am getting 49 MPG and it does not ping.
Sean

It is a crude but still, this is electronics with a, 'backup' system. I cannot say for sure, but you would have to walk some sort of; we step back in time. I would have to assume that this VOES is a vacuum system and if I were an EE (electrical engineer) I would build this box and then say to myself, "I want to add at least 1 or 3 variables to that wafer inside the VOES." I want to see why you get around and all is a limp mode to get you home, or shoot to the dealer for repair. Now I want to think out the variables:

1. Connector not connected Idea. WATT am I suppose to think if no one from Delphi would let me back with the programmers building map and flash my table legs the ebay way hose say can you sea the problems about to occur we use our basic 3wV (3 wire variables)?
a. The first person that knows diddly about VOES is me. I am going to walk my abstract to find how VOES operates. So far, I have to think the first failure is the connector is not snapped together. Well, you might as well pull it off; are both wires not connected? So, lettuce use this mix of salad we are about to get real complicated in thought because I have no clue of the article, the manual, or some place to find something about the VOES and who knows their steps? I'm here with two wires not connected and now I think; you with whatever miles on the gallon, it could be slightly better if you were not in a sort of "Limp mode" without an ignition curve.
b. Now, the connections are completely off, I have yet to add the wafer pull on the vacuum. I am still two wires down and my hez is driving me a bad drive-ability headache. I now [half] 2 think = On/Off. My two wires dropped signal. My crazy think says, 'crank says 2 sparks and we keep it simple about multi-spark and and spark on the exhaust are now 4 sparks. But for the walk in the abstract that may or may not pan out, I am going to say we use 2 for On and OFF we go.
C.< >That any? It is so complex and yet so easy. I am now in the signal sense now. I sense an on off kind of signal. I now say my on/off is happening when 2 sparks are recognized as On/Off/On/OFF the top of my head, lets use 4 sparks and now look at that signal. I half to fill in the blanks. I have a half-signal and can we see we can on off that think I think I see a linear move if I move a 2 pulse crank signal and 3wV my 3 variables of abstract and add to that
1. RPM
2. On
3. Off
4th dimension calls the jobber internals = I now hit a brick wall what is the next step? How do they do that shit? I am watching evolution of the black box from one suck out a two wire sensor. That 4th variable is that wafer signal. It is so convoluted in thought, I can start in the middle and work my way hot to the battery or cold clues down to the ground signal.
d. I am going to shut this post down because we will never get there, it is too simple. But say you need to be on the same page that is not found in any book. So, back to the signal, see if youc can digest this part of the limp signal. Who cares were we start kind of think the loop. I am not into that VOES right now. I am into getting you to somehow-see the on/off. If you are computer savvy and know something about that 1 and 0 abstract, chime in? They [EE's obsolete the VOES but it is BASE Sick is the ticket] just replace that with the on/off, it's that simple a switch is the VOES -wit wave fear... Wave if you are lost and in fear you are out to lunch says you.
EE. For electrical engineer we or me? Well, for me, forget about that math wheel and that 4th dimension. I am now going to evolve into two signals so I understand my limp-ability you feel now, or my, drive-ability I left the electrics alone I might asswell look like one / due ability, ass close ass I can get, I'm ha yank dis fucking electrickshit off me bike like who the fuck needs the other set of points to fire the other 2+2 Makes 4-Skins is you might ass well cut my dick off too is on/off like a hard on it goes up and down I do the clown shit around. Fish market smell, who but some racer that did not need that idle may have set the trend I have no clue is follow the herd it on the mount tin. OK, I mount it on the black box I do not look like I stand in front of that fish market like I am going to smell like JJ tech? I look like i'm inn drag my dong D gong show over there?

Welcome to da high-tech-troll-tech'inn along is the 42SkiDUEskis are they all JJ'Dup! Now that I got you down to here... Is not saying something assimple ass dis is to say:

I am learning computer speak the hard way is dis abstract of the rubbish cnt tear hubbish says in the abstract to get my facts write:

ON/OFF = Analog
1010101011010101100101 = Digital (,)(.)-------D icking ONE hung LOW..... High, up down, left right,sit, standdit. Someone pull the plug on dis guy! He's CC'inn up da place wit tech I half no clue if he is da real deal or someone is going to get the VOES is los up dare ass is grass!

I hope dare tech flies is all I half to say in that article wezza hope.

[Guest]

Wire out of connector idea:

WATT I benched tried was the VOES using a digital meter. Here is what I found out with the violet wire to VOES and black VOES to ground.

1. I have video so you may see that the VOES in action. I'll try to get it up and running in a bit. What I'll do is just repeat what I witnessed and describe the x-ray into the wafer player. All you really need to do is use either a digital or analog meter and probe the correct colors being black is the black prong to the meter. The red test prong goes to the black wire that leads to violet.
2. Now that I am hooked up electrically, my 3rd variable is to use a vacuum mechanism to pull the wafer. What happens next was to see that the vacuum of the VOES has a blow off or a one way, can't bounce the drum fandango. I now learned that she is old style one way bleed on the vac. Blows down the snout. That design channel, sends my vacuum sucker back to the 1Atmo. There we have our one way pull, where that threw me off thinking it was going to modern up in IAP? My mis-step in the opposites. Oh well, I learned the hard way in the walk of the steps.
3. WATT was I thinking? How could the push back be so insignificant. I watch too many gauges. Now, I see the ON/Off is to see the vacuum suck action and the pull back is the reaction goes 1Atmo. So now in the confusion is to confuse you to see what happened in the process. I am no longer on/off is the abstract. I am now half'inn half out of that pulse.
a. Pulse says, I can say I know 9 pounds roughly; is the vacuum pull at idle. I know 14.7 is my other number. I am going to go from 1atmo-9-1atmo-9-1atmo or on/off/on/off. Watt is in between dead engine is 14.7; I walk out and look inside my exhaust pipe, I think I am safe to say it is not running so there has to be 14.7 inside. Agreed?
b. My VOES starts up in the 1atmo number, pulls the jobber's motherboard or chip or whatever is in the back box [using VOES] to register an advance curve like it had springs and weights- it rubber-bands in a linear line starting from idle to WOT.
c. I am going to set the linear of the VOES in a running condition so you can watch the vacuum move in a linear move is what I think might happen? I need time for this one I am thinking of testing it more. So if you think you figured out that all that VOES test is just to watch the ohm meter pull numbers and now that is a good known VOES says my bench test. It came off a bike that if you you removed your finger from the button, the bike would be running before you could unload the spring tension in the starter button housing. So, that vacuum tells me that VOES is, no, I won't trade ya.

Video later.

[Guest]

WARNING: AdulTheme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZAz727A5Bg

This is more a generic way of testing things out. I've left so much out and confused anyone looking at it. You get to figure out watching me fluff the tech speak because it's one take charlie here; it is watt it is. I don't need to correct too much if we undergroundishit here.

This shit gets me in trouble wit the big top wink-wink. So I say too much, you figure it out...

Basics:

I am the 1Atmo. I control your suck&pull you right back like a rubber band has it memory. No leak the sneak something through, you are going to have a drive-ability problem; the air has a 2nd path. That air is a loop-think. That is a closed loop is that air signal.

You are going to become as confused as me and that is the point of no return; you too will be hitting that wall is that last step you figuring out what is open and what is closed. See, I was in the think of FI, not having that carb to remember. So, I was in the 'injector think' not carb and VOES, I had to step backwards and mess what is not even a loop yet in the evolution of the next step.

VOES is still in the electronics, not in the digital. Once you see how you can walk up to that bike and build a wire harness or repair the one that is on it now, you are getting way too much shit in the forward to learn the backwards to roll forward to FI.

Back to that VOESignal:

1. I am at a stage where I have my abstract saying to the VOES, what the fuck am I going to call you? You slow ass analog piece of shit you are fucking slow but hey, so is the rpm watthe fuk. I have to rheostat your ass up the linear, I rather spurt in digital.

2. Anal log is slow. If you just hook up your digital meter up to a running VOES, you can, 'back probe" the baby running. That number is going to run up the numbers in a rheostat fashion. When that box took the suck, that wafer is still used today. That carb was starting to become a closed loop with the breather going to the carb on a modern twin.

3. Digital light switch is much faster than an anal log is about logging one wire wind over the other is that rheostat. But that on off going on with the VOEShooting 10th's of volts, we are looking OPEN LOOP as opposed to CLOSED LOOP. With open, that air signal is all she wrote in the box.

a. Closed loop is back to the rheostat ride with the 02 calling the shots of gas in the air.
b. Open loop is stuck with the one air signal and no 02 bung in the pipe.
c. VOES is open loop. She spits the anal logging in the rheostat you keep the hose on.
d. Backup loop is now set. You now spit the on/off switch. The safety net. The ride it safe or ride it the fuck forever like that. I have to limp you is backup my box in the redundant. If I can work on a suck with the same numbers, then I can work the backup in the same numbers. Fuck your neck lash hez lash slash, you broke the LOOP = BACKUP.

4th Variable:

See how you have that hez a the light switch? That twitching switching was my jerking off in the digital is the on off switch. Said another way; I am laughing because here is the underground code speak. When I mentioned WOT I was not about to mention that but to present the obvious.

a. If I WOThe throttle, watt signal am I at? I am going to say one signal like I could only pull one signal not two cylinders potato-potato-ing so you could see the faster analog.
b. WATT you saw in the meter were one hit wonders. If I am pinned to the throttle I have no other signal to send to the box. The VOES wafer is pinned as far as it goes sends and will send that only one number in the pinned WOT ~ Digital single-Signal [turned] = OPEN LOOP.
c. If we were running all that VOES in the analog signal with the rheostat ride up and down so you are all smooth no hez is that early box with the system in the ~ Analog multi-Signal = CLOSED LOOP.

When you read that VOES article, I doubt it told you this shit. Draglagoon? YOu think they got their shit together at jackcough journal? Enter dis cage gearage is a gad chew ate under a tree in my backyard.... Yeah, a fuking birdie told me. I think it was a pink sparrow like my horse.

[Rudehog]

cntrhub I candig watt ur sayin, the voes is a primitive device to controll advance.

[Guest]

cntrhub I candig watt ur sayin, the voes is a primitive device to controll advance.

Yeah but it runs so smoooth. Starts so fast. It's a must have. But primitive as it is; She speaks volumes. You will not see S&S or any other [small time] ignition makers cozy up to Delphi. So that system is designed specifically for the H-D. Those are the rocket scientests and tests and tests $$$$ I'd like to jump on that pile is work for free.

I have a bike sitting next to the shovel that can code 20 spits. That VOES throws one spit and that is this thread. I think it's a Hez-code as per author's description.

Rudehog, I'm not beg'inn, but think you could be my interpreter someone sends in a watthefuck?

[Rudehog]

I'll do my best......

[Woodbutcher]

Hey hub .....

heres somthing I found ...........

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mklsportster.com/voes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mklsportster.com/xlvoes.htm&usg=__Nx8MzaYdHYWelPph92o0olVcF-Q=&h=324&w=432&sz=149&hl=en&start=10&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=2qz7gOjVOdvxIM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvoes%2Bswitch%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

Its' tunable (adjustable for fine tuning)