Iron Order MC member who shot and killed Mongol MC member in January will walk free.

[farmall]

No doubt, but his fecality is also irrelevant. His status has so far been useful in evading prosecution, though that choice could be reversed.

[Rubman]

Why, precisely, is refusal to use the system respectable or intelligent? What is the strategic or tactical benefit of that way of armed conflict?

1. Because in this particular instance, the prison guard would NOT have been held accountable regardless, and the only thing that would have happened is a bunch of Mongols would have walked away from the situation feeling like complete and total shit. The fix was in the from the start. There's a photo floating around in the moments following the incident where the piece of shit was seen with local cops--not hand cuffed--and laughing it up like he didn't just kill a guy. And the cops spoke to 40 eye witnesses who WEREN"T Mongols, and still managed to not even charge the dude with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. What the fuck difference do you think it would make if a Mongol testified or gave a statement, other than stripping him of his honor, respect, and dignity.

2. Because some things are more more important than life. Two of those things are honor and integrity. You don't talk to police, even if you could benefit directly from it (and even in this case, literally nothing good would have come from their cooperation). Karma is a mother fucker, and if the IO being killed in Florida last week is an indication of the reckoning on the horizon, I can't wait to see how shit unfolds.

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

I wonder, has there ever been a case where a cop, or prison guard was murdered by a 1%er club in retaliation for some form of wrongdoing? I think the idea that the Mongols will kill the prison guard is more fantasy than reality. What would happen if the guy were killed? A massive law enforcement effort would be focused on the Mongols and life would be made very unpleasant for them. If cops can get away with murdering 1%er's, it doesn't really seem like a smart idea for a 1%er club to kill a cop, or a member of a cop mc club. Sounds like a losing proposition for the 1%er's.

As for this idea that cooperating with the cops is "snitching", or that it is dishonorable, etc, I wonder what the members of this forum would do if someone stole their bike, or broke into their home and stole their stuff, or if someone raped their woman, or murdered someone they love (woman, child, friend, family), or if their woman/child/family member was kidnapped? Would you not call the cops?

How about if some drunk driver crashed into you and tore your leg off, or left you paralyzed, would you not talk to the cops? Would you not pursue justice, and financial payment in court? Or would you say "Fuck that. I don't talk to cops. I'd rather pay my medical bills myself and pay for a nurse out of my own pocket for the rest of my life".

How about if you were out riding with a friend and they got smashed by a hit and run driver? If you were the only witness, and the only one who saw the license number of the car, would you not give it to the cops? I think a person would be a total piece of shit if they refused to give that information to the cops, testify in court, and do everything possible to help their mangled friend obtain financial payment from the driver.

Perhaps some people have seen too many movies and have this fantasy of grabbing a gun and going out, finding the cocksuckers, and dishing out some "street justice". How often does that happen in the real world? And how well does it work out when it does happen?

There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses in the biker world. No shortage of people who say "I don't call the cops, I handle my own shit". And when I see people on internet forums talk that big talk, I can't help but wonder what kind of experience they have actually "handling shit". Ever shoot anyone? Ever stab anyone? Ever been shot or stabbed yourself? Ever cracked someones head wide open? Ever gone to prison for "handling your shit"?

Nope, no shortage of big talk on the internet.

[klondikekid64]

I would call the cops if someone stole my bike, etc. but I'm not a 1% er and as one you can't have it both ways, snitches get stitches as they say, I'm pretty sure as a 1% you don't call them for ANY reason. They have their ways of finding people that wronged them, you can't hide forever.

[Keeleyvision]

Perhaps some people have seen too many movies and have this fantasy of grabbing a gun and going out, finding the cocksuckers, and dishing out some "street justice". How often does that happen in the real world? And how well does it work out when it does happen?

There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses in the biker world. No shortage of people who say "I don't call the cops, I handle my own shit". And when I see people on internet forums talk that big talk, I can't help but wonder what kind of experience they have actually "handling shit". Ever shoot anyone? Ever stab anyone? Ever been shot or stabbed yourself? Ever cracked someones head wide open? Ever gone to prison for "handling your shit"?

Nope, no shortage of big talk on the internet.

You would have a really good point had anyone here said anything like that, but they didn't. Not one person beat their chest talking shit about what they would do. just allot of speculation on why the MC decided to handle it the way they did.

But since you were wondering, I cracked someone's head open in 1996 with a Bushmills bottle, it was horrifying, I didn't sleep for a couple of days thinking I killed him, I ended up doing 90 days in county, then 60 days in a treatment facility, then as soon as I got out and went back to work, I started paying off the civil suit and fines to the tune of 51% of my paycheck for over three years. Not that it has any relevance to this situation, or the people here offering their opinions on it.

[SlyJJ]

I wonder, has there ever been a case where a cop, or prison guard was murdered by a 1%er club in retaliation for some form of wrongdoing? I think the idea that the Mongols will kill the prison guard is more fantasy than reality. What would happen if the guy were killed? A massive law enforcement effort would be focused on the Mongols and life would be made very unpleasant for them. If cops can get away with murdering 1%er's, it doesn't really seem like a smart idea for a 1%er club to kill a cop, or a member of a cop mc club. Sounds like a losing proposition for the 1%er's.

As for this idea that cooperating with the cops is "snitching", or that it is dishonorable, etc, I wonder what the members of this forum would do if someone stole their bike, or broke into their home and stole their stuff, or if someone raped their woman, or murdered someone they love (woman, child, friend, family), or if their woman/child/family member was kidnapped? Would you not call the cops?

How about if some drunk driver crashed into you and tore your leg off, or left you paralyzed, would you not talk to the cops? Would you not pursue justice, and financial payment in court? Or would you say "Fuck that. I don't talk to cops. I'd rather pay my medical bills myself and pay for a nurse out of my own pocket for the rest of my life".

How about if you were out riding with a friend and they got smashed by a hit and run driver? If you were the only witness, and the only one who saw the license number of the car, would you not give it to the cops? I think a person would be a total piece of shit if they refused to give that information to the cops, testify in court, and do everything possible to help their mangled friend obtain financial payment from the driver.

Perhaps some people have seen too many movies and have this fantasy of grabbing a gun and going out, finding the cocksuckers, and dishing out some "street justice". How often does that happen in the real world? And how well does it work out when it does happen?

There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses in the biker world. No shortage of people who say "I don't call the cops, I handle my own shit". And when I see people on internet forums talk that big talk, I can't help but wonder what kind of experience they have actually "handling shit". Ever shoot anyone? Ever stab anyone? Ever been shot or stabbed yourself? Ever cracked someones head wide open? Ever gone to prison for "handling your shit"?

Nope, no shortage of big talk on the internet.

I don't see how not co-operating with police is talking big. Some people merely don't like police. Others (such as organized crime and some 1%'ers) make money through illegal means, so having any contact or work with police or law enforcement- no matter the outcome- is not in the best interests of said organization.

The notion that someone wouldn't do something because its "stupid" (I.e street justice).... well theres lots of people in prison for doing foolish things

[Rubman]

You would have a really good point had anyone here said anything like that, but they didn't. Not one person beat their chest talking shit about what they would do. just allot of speculation on why the MC decided to handle it the way they did.

But since you were wondering, I cracked someone's head open in 1996 with a Bushmills bottle, it was horrifying, I didn't sleep for a couple of days thinking I killed him, I ended up doing 90 days in county, then 60 days in a treatment facility, then as soon as I got out and went back to work, I started paying off the civil suit and fines to the tune of 51% of my paycheck for over three years. Not that it has any relevance to this situation, or the people here offering their opinions on it.

Lol don't sweat it, man. That dude always pumps his chest at me and has been doing it for years; he thinks that I have some kind of inferiority complex because I'm prettier than him. It's usually how jealous people react--they project their own shitty behavioral problems or insecurities onto the people they don't deem cool enough, or tough enough, or genuine enough, or ______ enough for them. Yawn.

ANYWAY, as far as what I do with cops?

Two years ago, there was a huge snow storm out here. A few buddies and I made a night of it and went out to the bars. on the way back, we saw a car stuck in the snow, and saw two cops trying to help the girl get over to the side of the road so she could park. I didn't stand there and yell "ACAB!" or anything--because I'm not a complete piece of shit. I went over, lent a hand, and after her car was safely next to the curb, I went back about my business.

It's not like I REFUSE to deal with police. If my home got robbed, I wouldn't call them because I know enough scumbags in the world that I'd probably be able to find my stuff before they did.

If a drunk driver smashed into me in the middle of the street and took my leg off, I would do everything I could to assist draining every plumb nickel from that mother fucker's bank account.

And if I was out doing biker shit and got hurt as the result of said biker shit, the answer is no--I would not cooperate with police if they asked. I'd keep my mouth shut, take care of myself, and pursue the appropriate avenues airing my grievance--none of which should ever include police intervention.

It's pretty common sense stuff, and the expectations are pretty clear. In fact, they're SO clear that I kind of don't understand where the confusion is. If I'm not dying and I CAN handle it myself, I don't involve the police. If it involves other bikers and the situation can be remedied in-house, I don't call the police.

As far as committing violence against others is concerned, that's none of your business. All I can tell you is that I'm a lot older now and don't look for trouble with absolutely anyone if it can be avoided, and I don't think it makes me any less of a bad ass to feel that way. In fact, that's how most of the bad asses I know operate. But for as long as I've been around, I've always told everyone: "I don't mind if you knock on my door, but be prepared for what answers."

And that's really all there is to it. None of this has anything to do with being a biker, really. It's just about being a decent human being lol

[mrhammer2u]

I didn't stand there and yell "ACAB!" or anything--because I'm not a complete piece of shit. Il

I had to look up ACAB. Didn't know that was a thing. I mean I knew cops were dicks, but I didn't know there was an acronym for it...lol!

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

You would have a really good point had anyone here said anything like that, but they didn't. Not one person beat their chest talking shit about what they would do. just allot of speculation on why the MC decided to handle it the way they did.

I wasn't referring to anyone in this thread, that's why I didn't single out anyone's post. I have no problem letting individuals know exactly what I think of them, and express my disagreement with their opinions by addressing them by name when I post.

Like I said "There's no shortage of wannabe bad-asses on the internet", and "no shortage of big talk on the internet". Those were general statements expressing my opinions on a lot of the talk I see on the internet when the subject of cooperating with the cops comes up and people start talking about handling shit themselves. How much of that talk is the truth, and how much is just "big talk". It seems to me that those people who would be inclined to handle shit themselves wouldn't be the type to talk about it, much less post about it on an internet forum.

It's been my experience that people who go around talking about kicking ass, particularly on the internet, are generally full of shit.

And again, that's a general statement, and not a reference to any specific people here.

Of course, if people want to assume that my posts are about them, as if everything is about them, well, I can't help that.

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

I don't see how not co-operating with police is talking big. Some people merely don't like police. Others (such as organized crime and some 1%'ers) make money through illegal means, so having any contact or work with police or law enforcement- no matter the outcome- is not in the best interests of said organization.

Not cooperating with the cops is one thing. Under many circumstances I wouldn't call or cooperate with the cops either. For me it's a case-by-case decision. What I don't do is say that anyone who ever calls or cooperates with the cops is a snitch, or refer to them in other such derogatory ways. But perhaps you would agree with what I said- that there are a lot of people in the "biker community" who like to talk tough, but who in reality are just poser wannabe bad-asses.

The notion that someone wouldn't do something because its "stupid" (I.e street justice).... well theres lots of people in prison for doing foolish things

Believe me I know. I was one of them. And I have a lot more respect for people who handle their own shit, and do their time, then I do for people who just like to talk tough about how they would handle their own shit, but who in reality would never risk injury, death or prison by actually do it. Talk is cheap, and it's a lot easier to talk about "handling shit" then it is to actually do it.

[EVILBLACKSABRE]

Lol don't sweat it, man. That dude always pumps his chest at me and has been doing it for years; he thinks that I have some kind of inferiority complex because I'm prettier than him. It's usually how jealous people react--they project their own shitty behavioral problems or insecurities onto the people they don't deem cool enough, or tough enough, or genuine enough, or ______ enough for them. Yawn.

No Rubman, if I have something to say to you, or about you, I'll say it directly to you (like this post). And you could not possibly be prettier than I am.

ANYWAY, as far as what I do with cops?

Two years ago, there was a huge snow storm out here. A few buddies and I made a night of it and went out to the bars. on the way back, we saw a car stuck in the snow, and saw two cops trying to help the girl get over to the side of the road so she could park. I didn't stand there and yell "ACAB!" or anything--because I'm not a complete piece of shit. I went over, lent a hand, and after her car was safely next to the curb, I went back about my business.

It's not like I REFUSE to deal with police. If my home got robbed, I wouldn't call them because I know enough scumbags in the world that I'd probably be able to find my stuff before they did.

If a drunk driver smashed into me in the middle of the street and took my leg off, I would do everything I could to assist draining every plumb nickel from that mother fucker's bank account.

And if I was out doing biker shit and got hurt as the result of said biker shit, the answer is no--I would not cooperate with police if they asked. I'd keep my mouth shut, take care of myself, and pursue the appropriate avenues airing my grievance--none of which should ever include police intervention.

It's pretty common sense stuff, and the expectations are pretty clear. In fact, they're SO clear that I kind of don't understand where the confusion is. If I'm not dying and I CAN handle it myself, I don't involve the police. If it involves other bikers and the situation can be remedied in-house, I don't call the police.

As far as committing violence against others is concerned, that's none of your business. All I can tell you is that I'm a lot older now and don't look for trouble with absolutely anyone if it can be avoided, and I don't think it makes me any less of a bad ass to feel that way. In fact, that's how most of the bad asses I know operate. But for as long as I've been around, I've always told everyone: "I don't mind if you knock on my door, but be prepared for what answers."

And that's really all there is to it. None of this has anything to do with being a biker, really. It's just about being a decent human being lol

I'd say that much of that^ reflects my philosophy and practice as well. The only exceptions being I would call the cops if someone robbed my house. I don't know any scumbags anymore. And I have no problem letting the cops deal with certain other situations, because I know firsthand how seriously the cops, and the criminal justice system can really fuck up someones life. Often times, filing criminal charges can hurt some asshole a lot worse than breaking their jaw.

I particularly like this line- "All I can tell you is that I'm a lot older now and don't look for trouble with absolutely anyone if it can be avoided, and I don't think it makes me any less of a bad ass to feel that way". That's some true wisdom right there, and a sign of maturity. If more people followed that philosophy there would be fewer people in prison. Props to you Rubman.

[Rubman]

Uhh, listen man... Don't know if you got the memo, but I'm the prettiest mother fucker that ever chopper'd. So uhh, uhm, errrr, uhhh... Well, this is awkward now.

But in all seriousness, fun fact: If you identify with those ideologies, then you have a lot more in common with the people you're asking questions about than you think.

Edit: Like, I came back here just so I could clarify that I'm also prettier than CRFyou. Like, I make him like a washed up old condom.

[Tattooo]

Uhh, listen man... Don't know if you got the memo, but I'm the prettiest mother fucker that ever chopper'd. So uhh, uhm, errrr, uhhh... Well, this is awkward now.

You can be the pretty one..... But I'm better looking.......

[OleDirtyDoc]

And I hold all the cards on awesome. I once killed two stones with one bird

[klondikekid64]

Prison guards do get killed, in Canada no less.http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...ocid=ACERDHP15