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sincityiron
11-13-2010, 11:10 PM
Im having a problem trying to ..figure out why my rear pipe is getting cherry red..I was told its running lean...can someone give some pointers were to go about this?? can i advance/retard the timing?do i fuck with the carb,check the valve ..thanx!

Sick1200
11-14-2010, 3:56 AM
That is one good looking IH you got there man.

A lean issue would be solved in the carb area first. Then check the intake manifold for a leaky gasket. It is not a timing issue, so don't advance or retard that shit. How fast is she idling after she's all warmed up?

1beatnik
11-14-2010, 6:38 AM
Take a water bottle and spray around the intake area where the carb meets the intake, and then where the intake meets the head, while letting it idle, if it at one piont stats to run rough, bog, or die, thats where your leak is. Timing could be an issue but probably not. How long have you had it running since you last messed with any engine mods, hows it start, does it pop like hell when you shut it off.

Beejay
11-14-2010, 6:51 AM
First thing I would do is check the timing before messing with any carb settings. If you retard your timing too much, it can cause this problem. After you confirm your timing is set, check for intake air leaks. Spray some carb cleaner around the intake flanges with the bike running and listen to see if the idle changes. (Don't spray into the carb, just around intake manifold). Lastly, I would tweak the carb settings. I wouldn't want to be tweaking carb settings just to find out later its a timing issue or an air leak.

KrOwN
11-14-2010, 9:04 AM
if its just one side doing it, its most likely a intake leak

GlassBikerNC
11-14-2010, 9:46 AM
I'd look for a leak in the intake first. Most likely where the intake meets the rear cylinder.

As a wise old biker once told me. "Start with the easiest and least expensive thing to fix"

ironhead303
11-14-2010, 9:55 AM
I would check your timming, It also could be to much carbon deposite on the piston or the valves, sounds like its not expelling the exaust correctly. may have a sticking valve or the timming is off. the valve sounds like its not opening at the right time to let out the hot exaust. are you running points or do you have a electronic ignition. If it were a lean carb the bike would be poping when running, take a look at your plug to see if you are to lean or rich. black means to rich and if they are white to lean. need a nice light brown color.you might want to check your push rods and see if they have come lose and are not opening the valve. good luck keep us posted to see what come out of it.

SMChewy
11-14-2010, 10:17 AM
Look at your plugs for rich/lean. Yes lean will make it run hot, but it is usually timing, Ironhead303 is right. Your timing is probably to retarded. My bike was doing the same thing. I don't know where the other guys got intake leak, thought that would make it pop and run rough, but maybe they have had a experience I haven't. But the heat is more than likely timing. Randall at Deluxe says a Ironhead is advanced right when it tries to take your leg off kicking it. And remember that the "advance" timing mark on the crank, is still retarded. It is just a starting point to advance it till it's right, also taught to me by Randall. Then like 303 said also, check your pushrods. Once you've done this go rip it around wide open for 20 miles or so, then pull and check your plugs. Just like he said, you want a little brown tinge to em with no excessive build up. Black, rich; white, lean. Once Randall (Superknuck on here, dude is a Harley encyclopedia) had me do all this, mine was/is great. I thought my rear pipe was too short. It was just my timing. But that glowing red will sure freak you out huh?

GlassBikerNC
11-14-2010, 12:20 PM
My post was inspired by my experience with my old V-Star. Front pipe was glowing red...no excessive popping...turned out to be a crack in the boot going to the front cylinder sucking air. Made it VERY lean.

KrOwN
11-14-2010, 12:38 PM
yep intake leak causes lean condition, no pop whatso ever for me

SMChewy
11-14-2010, 1:17 PM
No shit huh? That I haven't heard of. Like I said, I haven't experienced that one yet!..... But I do ride an Ironhead, so the key term there is YET! At least I now got something else to look for if I do have the issue again. And I see now I missed a word when typing earlier. I fixed it. But now that add the leak made it run lean that makes sense. Couldn't put 2 and 2 together.

KrOwN
11-14-2010, 1:30 PM
ya it could easily be a combo of both tho.

Check for intake leak first, its the easiest, spray start fluid/carb cleaner/propane if it dies or RPMs raise you have a leak

sincityiron
11-14-2010, 1:43 PM
alright...thanx for all the great pointers...so i started with the exhaust leak at the manifold,and sure as shit the bike started sputtering and cut off...so soon as i get an extra set of hands I'll fix it and let u guys know how it went. THANX again!!

superflysnow
11-14-2010, 2:10 PM
If it is just one pipe you already know it is not the timing and must be a vacuum leak.

dont spray water at it to find it, it will work but motors dont like water...

check the bolts from the manifold to the head, if its not there use carb cleaner to find the leak.

sincityiron
11-14-2010, 3:23 PM
well i seem to fix the leak at the manifold..so i took it for ride around the block a few times and pulled it in the garage,close the door and its still red...not as bad as last night i don't think..i got a electronic ing,i have never advance it or retarded it..its always been at 0..if there was a leak in the pipe to head,that couln't do it right?? and whats weird is its only doing it on the rear...what other leak would i be looking for??thanx!

superflysnow
11-14-2010, 3:33 PM
crack in the manifold? try spraying carb cleaner around head, manifold and back of carb.

Also, check both plugs, front should be tan/grey-black, back will be white. If the front is white as well, it is the timing... pull "points" cover and make sure the plate is not loose

cntrhub
11-14-2010, 4:40 PM
if its just one side doing it, its most likely a intake leak

I would think one carb and a leak might suck some around that leak? I'm not sure. You say the rear only turns red? Front is exposed to air so that may not show a glow. Say we have thin pipe. Say the stock pipe is a pipe within a pipe so that glow is showing inside the first pipe.

So, could that rear pipe be a thin metal not exposed too soon to the cool front side? Say the rear is hot somewhat, or say it might have the same heat as the front cylinder for argument sake. Would not the same leak take the same suck and be lean at both cylinders?

Say you place the ignition at 0 or TDC. It takes time to fire and burn the process at a faster rpm. So, if you say 10 BTDC might have a spent flame front at 10 ATDC. So, if you say you set it at 0 degrees and now fire the fuel, would not that flame be 10 too late> Would that not be 20 of flame front down the heat my cylinders? I have no power because the flame front is still burning oh the exhaust opened and where did my power go but into my genes off the pipe kind of listen...

If I have a set of points, will that fire both cylinders? Yes. Then I can't have one lean and one not lean I have the same ignition fire at the same degree for both cylinders, so is it a fuel leak? Did I check manifold leak? Yes, I would say a leak down a pipe is a leak, but to suck at one end you get leak. Suck on the longer end you get leak but it takes time to get there so yes, there too is a variable.

1. Thin pipes make cherry red headers = No problem.
2. Air leak off one carb... We need a pop on the other cylinder doing the; for every action/reaction.
3. Ignition advance does not start at zero degrees for a long stroke engine say for argument sake.

I would check compression first thing.
I would set valves second thing.
I would recheck compression.
I would now set ignition timing.
Now, I would check for an air leak at idle.
Now, I would set the carb at the highest peak at the low speed screw.
Now, I would say you take for a ride; you found nothing but a hot red thin pipe and if it is at the rear... Did you clear all the "Eye Woods" take you behind the would shed you do not act to clean all those variables first so the approach to the OTTO is what it demands! ;) :killerjob: Lew Kiss! Ohms ohms on the range.

Robzilla
11-14-2010, 4:43 PM
Just went through this with my Ironhead, noticed the rear exhaust was super hot. It was at a shop, we were changing out the Manual Advance Distributor for an Auto Advance Distributor, needless to say we went back to the Manual Advance, but it's the timing. Seriously, I just switched out my intake manifold and sealed it up a month earlier and it seemed to run fine, after screwing with the timing the rear pipe got super hot.

sincityiron
11-14-2010, 6:24 PM
OK...i torque my head bolts and reset my timing and went for a 20 min ride,plenty of time to get cherry red..so i think its fix the head bolts were pretty damm tight so i guess it was the timing too..i know the manifold can get rock and leak but i never had the timeing go wack out even just a little..does this shit happen often?thanx again for all the info...learned alot of shit today..!

cntrhub
11-14-2010, 7:18 PM
OK... but i never had the timing go whack out even just a little..does this shit happen often?

No. If everything is bolted down, no shaft rock where the advancer slop can bounce out of time, then no, the only whack that might happen is when the points wear down, they open late = Retard.

Retard means; late burning past the fire mark it should be at. Then there goes the hot pipe showing up real slowly and the power signing off you can't feel it leave until you make a thread and then post the pipe glow kind of ignition happening. :eek:

:cheersmate:

ironhead303
11-14-2010, 7:32 PM
bad timming can give you all sorts or problems, I ride an IH and that is the firt thing I go to we she starts to run rough.Like cntrhub said points will wear out so you need to check them about every 2500 miles or even sooner.

sincityiron
11-14-2010, 8:22 PM
gotcha on checking with points..but i got a high 4 ing...that shouldn't really go out of whack right??only thing i can think of is that i port and polished my heads..never touched the timing so i just left every thing and put the heads and new carb and fired it up..basically would the heads change up my timing?

superflysnow
11-14-2010, 9:43 PM
gotcha on checking with points..but i got a high 4 ing...that shouldn't really go out of whack right??only thing i can think of is that i port and polished my heads..never touched the timing so i just left every thing and put the heads and new carb and fired it up..basically would the heads change up my timing?

that all points to vacuum leak, again, check the bolts on the ignition timing plate under the points cover. as long as they are tight your focus should be elsewhere...

you are looking for a tiny leak somewhere between the carb and the combustion chamber. it could be in the valve cover gaskets, carb manifold or manifold at head, the manifold itself...

xllance
11-14-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm also thinking intake leak because if it was timing , the front would burn red before the rear. The front cyl on Ironheads run hotter than the rear, don't ask me how but they just do.

sincityiron
11-14-2010, 10:08 PM
Ok sounds good..its got to be a leak now,i pretty much went over everything check the valves,and did the timing again..so it has to have a leak somewere...

xllance
11-14-2010, 10:27 PM
I've never expireinced it myself but I have heard that if you have a bad enough head pipe leak at the flange it can cause a lean condition. Something about cam overlap ...........
I'm lazy and didn't go over the whole thread but did you check the plugs to see how they read?
You do know on the HI-4 that you can adjust the rear cyl advance independently right? Might check that too.

cntrhub
11-14-2010, 10:50 PM
gotcha on checking with points..but i got a high 4 ing...that shouldn't really go out of whack right?? OK, we are going back and forth here only because and don't worry because the less you feed, the more I bleed. Now you are feeding us you have electronic not points, correct? See how we need to be so detailed you have to say when the last time you wiped your ass and blew your nose just bring it.

See how the scenario changes from points to electrics and now you can say, No, you won't have to set that ignition ever again is why they rivet that points cover down is only used for failed parts or crash repair replacing the cone say or cover housing. There is no other degree to chase, get it? Stock is stock is WOT did you say just now??? :eek:


only thing i can think of is that i port and polished my heads..never touched the timing so i just left every thing and put the heads and new carb and fired it up..basically would the heads change up my timing? Yes and No.

No ~ You ported the head. What this does is have a speed effect over a surface. So you polish a table and you can slide your ass down the end have fun! If you did not polish the table, you'd look like a dog with that butt scratching the carbit is bit by bit you pull that shit off the fur. Table toilet paper down a hall LOL.

No ~ You now have a faster fur that can run in the wind is shit outta luck you are about to hear the yes is coming. The timing change has an effect you sort of took care of the air speed with the air, but where did that proportion go out the new carb?

Now we have a carb that is in question. What jetting was this carb set for? Why would the porting effect the new carb? Say the faster guy is air and he fills sooner. So, you have the hot air all out of proportion where more fuel in would cool the engine down, give you more low end power. Raggedge rich where that plug is still looking white/tan not all black soot.

No ~ Is now on the ragged edge of a yes border at the line of no return. Did you snowflake each head? I can't say no, you cut your left nail index and snip the hangnail on the other hand are your hands snowflake'd if you left them both alone with all that bump in the way?

Yes - You both have to change some timing to meet & greet a sooner event than stock could handle all along in that pre-set snowflake mode.

Yes - The jetting has to meet & greet your new found friends are two different head flows. So, cool if you could dial in one head for one carb, but you are SOL in the equal balance factor.

Yes - Change the jetting for port proportion for lean may it be we do not find a leak.

Yes - Even if there was not a leak, we do not bolt up a port, a pipe, a carb and go slabbing from NY say head west and back again.

Yes - She is now a temp meter. If you did your porting well, you will feel a seasonal change like jet for spring, jet for summer, jet before she is parked for the winter. I'm not saying it will happen, I am just saying if you have a pro port a head... Look the fuck OUT! And if that bike runs like that :cheersmate: I'll send you my heads! Name the price.

Yes - Did we conclude you have a can of worms now that need a message like a baby needs a diaper change like the ignition. We need to make that ignition setting love that position. We need that jetting to love that position. We need to find out that compression reading or I'm going to hand you an oct2gone pazdick bat and see that trailer over there off the slab? Meet me around back you do not :super tune: that bike now.

Yes - Once you find that happy medium, set the rivet to the points cover, you are done with snowflake.

cntrhub
11-14-2010, 10:59 PM
Ok sounds good..its got to be a leak now,i pretty much went over everything check the valves,and did the timing again..so it has to have a leak somewere...

Slick! Slick! Sea that tuneup? Love my timing on the snowflake rear. Love my timing on the front side.

Love my spark plug out and watch me idle set snowflake cyl #1. I don't care which cylinder I pick once the timing is set. I want to see who wants the best full rich grunt at idle?

Say #2 cylinder needs less fuel and the low turns in for lean she peaks better. You need to find that low needle someplace in the middle you are stuck with one carb.

Ign 1-2: No matter how you look at it, say I made dual points. I still need the spark to hit at a balanced crank degree. So, instead of some preset like a dyna, you can move that one piggy plate to dial in that same degree.

Yes - You can use both cylinders as two different cylinders, but either way you look at it, she will hammer a degree off against that other action is an equal off degree reaction. If you had both timing degree'd at same degrees = equal and opposite smooth out of the pulses and no mirror humming will be coming. Get the effect of the tuning mode?

BuddhahoodVato
11-15-2010, 9:08 AM
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I'd look for a leak in the intake first. Most likely where the intake meets the rear cylinder.

As a wise old biker once told me. "Start with the easiest and least expensive thing to fix"

Old bikers know there shit. All good suggestions, get dirty. Get in the zone, and you will figure it out. Harleys are just tractors.

ShovelEd
11-15-2010, 9:21 PM
Check this fucker out. That is me and i AM lighing a cig off my rear pipe.

SMChewy
11-15-2010, 9:30 PM
It can still be the timing like Robzilla said. Which way did you turn it to advance it? Clockwise? I had to advance my crane a lot too, but I am running Hi1 with the manual advance still too. When mine was way retarded it was the rear glowing as well.

ironhead303
11-16-2010, 9:23 AM
Check this fucker out. That is me and i AM lighing a cig off my rear pipe.
fucking narley, I have never seen a pipe get that hot. crazy

sincityiron
11-16-2010, 4:27 PM
hupp... that looks about right...freak me out when that happened to me riding home..

sincityiron
11-16-2010, 4:37 PM
ITS FIXED!!!!alright well i think it was a combination of things...I had a leak in my manifold,and also were the pipe hits the head..and i also adjusted the timing to...so thanx to all the riders with the knowledge and the has happened to...your the shit :cheersmate:..! thanx again,was a big learning experience :killerjob: