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ridemore16
08-04-2010, 7:54 AM
I was riding Saturday and my bike started backfiring like crazy, sputtering and then altogether died. I'm running a Boyer Electronic Ignition and I have read a lot about needing a strong battery to run smooth. I got the bike home and charged the battery (it wasn't bad). Bike will not start now.

Question is...can the ignition "box" go bad for some reason? If so, can you buy just the box or do you have to buy the whole ignition kit?

I'm finally giving up on my first wiring job and completely re-wiring the entire bike. Hopefully this time will be better.

Torch
08-04-2010, 1:19 PM
I was riding Saturday and my bike started backfiring like crazy, sputtering and then altogether died. I'm running a Boyer Electronic Ignition and I have read a lot about needing a strong battery to run smooth. I got the bike home and charged the battery (it wasn't bad). Bike will not start now.

Question is...can the ignition "box" go bad for some reason? If so, can you buy just the box or do you have to buy the whole ignition kit?

I'm finally giving up on my first wiring job and completely re-wiring the entire bike. Hopefully this time will be better.

yes occasionally Boyer's go bad, especially the new Boyer mark4 because of A/C line contamination, but when they go bad they just shut off, usually no back fires, no nothing just off and never again on.
your wiring is critical for reliability and especially with electronic ignitions, don't Micky mouse your wiring if you don't know what you are doing get some knowledgeable help. A good 50% of the repair orders we do at our shop are wiring issues and it is damn near imposable to tell you what is going with your bike over the internet, the only thing I can say is check the white wire to the box for a good connection to neutral power.

TigerChris
08-04-2010, 7:33 PM
ok im gonna try...


*The white wire goes to the coil, the black to ground, the red to positive, then w/b and y/b for pickups.*
W to - ,B to coil, R to + tyyyypooooooo


Is it wired Positive or negative ground?
fuck that. N/M that dont matter.

cut the +/- wires off your boyer. Take your battery charger and hook it up to the box. only the boyer box.
Unplug the pickup wires. turn on charger. rub the wires together. see if it sparks.
Tell me what happens.

Torch
08-05-2010, 9:19 AM
ok im gonna try...


The white wire goes to the coil, the black to ground, the red to positive, I think. then w/b and y/b for pickups.


Is it wired Positive or negative ground?
fuck that. N/M that dont matter.

cut the +/- wires off your boyer. Take your battery charger and hook it up to the box. only the boyer box.
Unplug the pickup wires. turn on charger. rub the wires together. see if it sparks.
Tell me what happens.
Don't do that, the black wire is the neutral trip wire going to the coil, the white wire goes to neutral power wire, the red wire goes to positive power. and that does not change weather the bike is positive or negative ground. if you get confused you can find it all in this set of wiring diagrams....http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc16a.html......or this one....http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc16b.html

ridemore16
08-05-2010, 9:22 AM
thanks guys. I have that wiring diagram from before. I'm waiting on my wire and bullet connectors to get here and then I'm diving in. I'll post some pics when I have a question (already have a question about my tympanium).

Thanks again for the help!!! ChopCult rules!!!

WolfHunter
08-05-2010, 6:54 PM
Don't do that,

Yes Do that.
This is how I've checked my boxes too. With a battery charger.
There are many ways to skin a cat. but its not the skinning thats important
-its what you make out of the skin that is......Torch would disagree of course -oh the irony

Torch
08-05-2010, 8:14 PM
To the master of all things ironic, please note, I am not disagreeing with testing the Boyer, I do disagree with connecting the wires the wrong way.
if you test Boyer's with the white wire hooked to the coils, then I also disagree with you .

fozz
08-06-2010, 3:49 PM
ok im gonna try...


*The white wire goes to the coil, the black to ground, the red to positive, then w/b and y/b for pickups.*
W to - ,B to coil, R to + tyyyypooooooo


Is it wired Positive or negative ground?
fuck that. N/M that dont matter.

cut the +/- wires off your boyer. Take your battery charger and hook it up to the box. only the boyer box.
Unplug the pickup wires. turn on charger. rub the wires together. see if it sparks.
Tell me what happens.

We still working on Range rovers youve proved over an over you know fuck all about anything to do with bikes leave the advise to those that do

Torch
08-06-2010, 10:57 PM
Ok guys I'm gonna stay out of this war.

Torch
08-06-2010, 11:23 PM
one thing you guys should know about testing a Boyer with a battery charger. Battery chargers don't really put out true D/C, they put out a pulsating square wave D/C currant, that output is real close to A/C power in the way it pulses, this is not a problem when you are charging a battery but if you are using it as a source of D/C power to test a Mark 4 in the instructions there is a "WARNING" about unfiltered A/C power damaging the Boyer box. it says it will be instant un-reversible damage, it comes with testing instructions and limits the unfiltered A/C to .02 volts
We have had a couple of Boyer Mk.4's fail because of unfiltered A/C on bikes with old charging systems, now they have this warning with them.
when you test them with a battery charger you are taking a chance of blowing it, use a battery to test them instead.

fozz
08-06-2010, 11:34 PM
no war torch but bad advice is bad advise im no electrical master technician but id never use a battery charger to test anything , im not one to piss in anybodys pockets but im with you on this one

WolfHunter
08-08-2010, 6:47 PM
Chris how much further do we need to keep playing with these guys? capacitors capacitorscapacitors

Torch
08-08-2010, 8:30 PM
Chris how much further do we need to keep playing with these guys? capacitors capacitorscapacitors

let me guess, you're the guy that told Chris this bike will hall ass if we drill holes in the shift cam plate, ....oh the irony

TigerChris
08-11-2010, 9:00 AM
Chris how much further do we need to keep playing with these guys? capacitors capacitorscapacitors

Dude its bad business to actually update the electrical system =] I mean, by building reliable 1 kick electrical systems how would these guys in the shops make any money?! I'm tellin' ya we could never make it out there without batteries/scotchlocks/points/dual coils/diodes/bullet connectors going bad all the time...

Torch
08-11-2010, 9:14 AM
Dude its bad business to actually update the electrical system =] I mean, by building reliable 1 kick electrical systems how would these guys in the shops make any money?! I'm tellin' ya we could never make it out there without batteries/scotchlocks/points/dual coils/diodes/bullet connectors going bad all the time...

What the fuck are you saying you idiot. 90% of the bikes we do at our shop are custom bikes with no battery and mags or electronic ignitions, you really need to learn a little about life before you go around spitting out shit you don't know. I can guarantee you I was building a bike the day you were born, and you think you know everything cuz you for the last 4 years you have a job as a wrench. really, come talk to me in 40 years and lets see how much you think you know.
I have seen a lot of stupid shit in hot rods and bikes in my life but I honestly think that shifter cam plate with 20 holes in it is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. And then you ported the shit out of the head on your bike but you put stock intake valves in it. Duh?
Do you guys really think you know everything about mechanical and electrical engineering ?

TigerChris
08-11-2010, 11:51 AM
What the fuck are you saying you idiot. 90% of the bikes we do at our shop are custom bikes with no battery and mags or electronic ignitions, you really need to learn a little about life before you go around spitting out shit you don't know. I can guarantee you I was building a bike the day you were born, and you think you know everything cuz you for the last 4 years you have a job as a wrench. really, come talk to me in 40 years and lets see how much you think you know.
I have seen a lot of stupid shit in hot rods and bikes in my life but I honestly think that shifter cam plate with 20 holes in it is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. And then you ported the shit out of the head on your bike but you put stock intake valves in it. Duh?
Do you guys really think you know everything about mechanical and electrical engineering ?

WTF?
Wow... You mad bro? I never said anything about you or anything you do and you come on some other guys thread that has nothing to do with me and call me an idiot. All i'm trying to do is help the guy with his electrics. What shit am I spitting that I don't know? What do you care about what I do to my bike anyway? I'll drill holes in my fucking gas tank if I want to. I didn't port shit, I bought the head that way, why would I pay to machine new seats in to fit 1mm oversize valves for a whopping 5 more HP at 7500 rpm? You obviously have some kind of animosity towards thinking outside the box, and I don't really understand why your attacking me. BTW WTF are you doing surfing the web anyway? Its 1:30 pm on a weekday, shouldn't you be replacing some bullet connectors or batteries or coils or diodes or adjusting points or some shit?
I got an idea, how bout you and that faggot kiwi from new zealand stop posting negative shit and actually share something enjoyable/informative/cool/usefull with the community.

fozz
08-11-2010, 12:48 PM
Calm down Torch , i picked this guy from the begining .(Tiger chris ) yep he s insulting a lota custom bike builders , but as in his tech tips he doesnt know much about what he s talking about just thinks he does .

just noticed the foggot kiwi bit ,,, that hurt tigerpiss. give good advise we will listen , i can state right hear & now you will never be listened .to

Gepetto
08-11-2010, 9:36 PM
I just love the internet!! It's so full of useful information. Just today I found out that there is such a thing as napping porn. Who knows what I will find out next, maybe that it is impossible to run a bike with out a battery even though it has a magneto. Or that I can test electrical stuff by shorting it out despite what good judgement and the instructions say. Oh boy I just can't wait to see what else I can find.

Torch
08-12-2010, 12:33 AM
WTF?
Wow... You mad bro? I never said anything about you or anything you do and you come on some other guys thread that has nothing to do with me and call me an idiot. All i'm trying to do is help the guy with his electrics. What shit am I spitting that I don't know? What do you care about what I do to my bike anyway? I'll drill holes in my fucking gas tank if I want to. I didn't port shit, I bought the head that way, why would I pay to machine new seats in to fit 1mm oversize valves for a whopping 5 more HP at 7500 rpm? You obviously have some kind of animosity towards thinking outside the box, and I don't really understand why your attacking me. BTW WTF are you doing surfing the web anyway? Its 1:30 pm on a weekday, shouldn't you be replacing some bullet connectors or batteries or coils or diodes or adjusting points or some shit?
I got an idea, how bout you and that faggot kiwi from new zealand stop posting negative shit and actually share something enjoyable/informative/cool/usefull with the community.

Ok, then never mind.... :)

WolfHunter
08-12-2010, 2:42 PM
yawn- go ride your motorcycle torchy

Torch
08-12-2010, 8:36 PM
yawn- go ride your motorcycle torchy

ok, and you boys go make some really cool sparks and stuff with you new battery chargers.

ridemore16
08-20-2010, 9:10 AM
alright, back to the original question. I completely re-wired my bike and still no spark. I have confirmed power to the coils but still no ignition spark. I was told to go pack to points, but of course I don't have the points plate from when Boyer was installed. Does anyone know if you can just buy the "black box" and not the entire Boyer kit?

Gepetto
08-20-2010, 7:53 PM
You can order replacement parts from Boyer. We have had the fiber pickup plate break before and were able to get replacement parts at a resonable price. On the black box should be there info for contacting them, or just contact who you got the boyer from and they can go direct.

Torch
08-21-2010, 9:41 AM
alright, back to the original question. I completely re-wired my bike and still no spark. I have confirmed power to the coils but still no ignition spark. I was told to go pack to points, but of course I don't have the points plate from when Boyer was installed. Does anyone know if you can just buy the "black box" and not the entire Boyer kit?

not to wack a hornets nest but like Chris said, test it, but with a battery not a battery charger. and yes you can just order a brain box.
is it a Boyer mark 4 ?
the mark 4 is extremity sensitive to A/C contamination in the charging system, you must read the warning and test the system like it says.

HelrichCustomCycles
08-23-2010, 2:29 AM
When a Boyer dies, it dies, like a kill switch, it will also do this if you stator rotor is dead. Have you checked your carb? filter? etc... I would start with the easy stuff and work your way down.
Have you checked your ground?

ridemore16
09-03-2010, 1:09 PM
so I've replaced the Boyer with another Boyer....and NOTHING. Still no spark?!?! I've confirmed power to the coils, battery is sending the correct voltage. I'm thinking maybe the coils are shot? I've got a set on order but am super bummed. I was hoping to get some miles in on this long weekend.

Any other ideas guys?

Torch
09-03-2010, 5:20 PM
your scaring me when you say you have power going to the coils, do you have a negitive or positive ground bike?
on a positive ground bike,... the hot wire from the key switch (negitive) goes to the white wire on the Boyer box, the power to the coils comes from the black wire of Boyer box to the coil. the other coil terminal (+) is just a positiive ground.
on a negitive ground bike, the hot wire (positive) to the red wire on the Boyer box, the white wire goes to a ground point (negitive), and the black wire (also negitive) goes to the coil (-) terminal.

ridemore16
09-03-2010, 5:25 PM
Wrong choice of words on my part. I meant that my test light confirms the coils are getting power. I have a negative ground bike. How do you know if a coil has gone bad?

Torch
09-03-2010, 5:28 PM
ok then disconnect the boyer black wire and test your coil by taking a ground (negitive) wire and arcing it to the coil (-) terminal, every time you do this it should fire the plugs

ridemore16
09-03-2010, 5:33 PM
Thanks Torch. To clarify: should I disconnect a ground wire from the point on the frame? Also, should I pull a sparkplug and hold it on the head to test for spark?

Torch
09-03-2010, 5:42 PM
Thanks Torch. To clarify: should I disconnect a ground wire from the point on the frame? Also, should I pull a sparkplug and hold it on the head to test for spark?

1st. are you sure you have a negitive ground bike? does the wire from the (-) post of the battery go to a chasis ground? if so you don't need to disconect the ground (negitive) wire from anywhere.... just pull the black wire from the Boyer box off of the coil leave the red wire (positive hot) connected, and the jumper wire from coil to coil connected, then take a piece of wire hold on end to the negitive terminal of the battery or and good ground spot and arc it to the (-) terminal of the coil where the black wire used to be connected. and yes you need to hold the side of the plug against the head so it is grounded.

ridemore16
09-03-2010, 6:30 PM
Well, I tested as you described and I did get spark from the coil. But when I re-connected it would not kick over. It doesn't even sound like it's trying.

Torch
09-03-2010, 6:33 PM
ok leave the plugs grounded on the outside of the head and with everything connected to the Boyer kick it over and see if they spark

ridemore16
09-03-2010, 6:38 PM
No spark...

Torch
09-03-2010, 6:46 PM
ok go to the wiring on the boyer it should be the red wire goes to a keyed hot wire....the white wire should go to chasis ground.... the black wire goes to the (-) post on the first coil.. the (+) terminal of that coil has a jumper wire going to the (-) of the second coil.... the (+) terminal of the second coil goes to a keyed hot wire. then check the black/white and black/yellow wire from the points plate to see they are connected solidly. if every thing looks good then take those two wires ( B/Y and B/W) and rub them to each other it should fire the plugs.
and one more thing the Boyer you have is probably a Mark 4 version, if you have any little bit of unfiltered A/C voltage in you charging system then it is an instant death to the Boyer, that can happen by just kicking the engine over it doesn't have to be a running engine. so disconnect the 2 wires coming from you alternator and try to fire it off of your battery alone.