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SamHain
05-28-2017, 9:17 AM
Can't seem to get this thing dialed. 80" shovel, built heads.

Was starting 1-2 kicks cold with a .028, but runs best only 3/4 turn out. With a .0265 it takes enough kicks to get me swearin and angry to start and still runs only just under 1 turn out, plugs run with pretty much no color on this, black plug base, clean center/electrode. Tried up to a 31 for fun that runs about 1/2 turn out.

What I know, mixture should be 1 to 1 1/2 out or it's time to change the jet. That would suggest I go down farther on the intermiediate, but seems really small and I already can't stand the 265. Main seems happiest about 76 as of now.

Any direction?

Revelator
05-28-2017, 12:09 PM
What Air Bleed Jet (ABJ) are You running? If the ABJ is around 40 -45....
I would recommend going DOWN on the Main to 74 or even 72

If the ABJ is above 45, I would change it, Anything over 45 is more suited to
a carb with a thunderjet (3rd circuit).




If You lower the MJ Also try a higher intermediate jet. The .0295 is many times the hot ticket on many
motors. the 31 is probably too large, I run a 31 on my "E" on a 93" pan with thunderjet.

And of course Always turn off the accelerator pump when dialing in the jets.

SamHain
05-28-2017, 12:37 PM
Early super e. Don't know if the air bleed has been drilled. Have 265/78 in it right now. Runs/transitions good. Just doesn't start worth shit. Have put a couple hundred miles on it the last few days, just first start of the day is a nightmare.

SamHain
05-28-2017, 1:17 PM
Pulled the heads last weekend fighting an air leak, passes the spray test now. May have to go put a pressure tester together. I think it was probably suckin air when it was starting good with the 28.

Dougtheinternetannoyance123
05-28-2017, 2:21 PM
Thanks for posting this, I am always interested in tuning feedback and dialing in. I have 2 Super Es and appreciate hearing from those who have a lot of time and experience on tips. Thats some good info there.

I photocopied several tech articles from the Horse magazine and one from HOT BIKE! Along with downloaded and printed off a bunch of stuff from the nice folks at S&S from their webpage tech downloads section. Have a 3 ring binder down in the shop just for this topic. Might consider looking at those downloads as well?

But my lame contribution to all this is that on ANY of my scoots if I let them sit at all, the jets gum up from the crap fuel. We have high alcohol content and I try and buy the alcohol free stuff when/where I can. But if a scoot has sat for any time at all (2 weeks and up) Then the usual drill is pull the air cleaner, clean shop rag, light squirt of WD40 or Starting fluid (Dont use much, it runs super lean) and then choke it with the lever and hold the rag over the intake... slightly waffle-muffle it with the rag pulling it away when it catches and when stumbles muffle it again. This seems to help clear out the sludge a bit and often it clears up and all is good again. If they start all the time no issues,, If it sat all winter I usually pull them partway apart and clean and blow out all the little holes and jets with carb cleaner and compressed air.

MODERN FUEL IS SHIT!!!!! So,, just sayin' you MIGHT be chasing other issues as well.

I have a friend who is a fuel systems tech and worked most of the major auto dealerships as well as teaches regional classes. He is generally against MOST miracles in a bottle, But he advises people to use Chevron Techron concentrate as part of your diagnostics. Theres a weak mixture version sold thru COSTCO and some autoparts stores... noticeable because way cheaper.. But the good stuff is a small black bottle. Too much IS a good thing with this. When a car/truck comes in with EFI issues he advises run the gas down to less than 1/4 tank and add the WHOLE bottle. Run the piss out of up and up and down the nearby interstate for a few miles THEN do your diagnostics. It works really well for clearing out sludge, alcohol and other residue and even small particle buildup. Its nearly Straight NAPTHA and some other chemicals.. But I use it a lot in all our vehicles,, carbs too.

Some folks swear by SEAFOAM as well,, I dont have as much experience with it, But seemed to work good on our lawnmowers and other small equip. I am told that the smaller the orifices the bigger the problems with modern fuels...:banghead:

Revelator
05-28-2017, 3:45 PM
"modern fuel is shit" I won't argue with that assumption!

I usually add some "LHP" to each fill up, unless I'm in a hurry.

Manhattan Oil produces the LHP, They used to manufacturer It across
the street from My buddy's shop in Hermosa bch. So I got a free bottle to try out &
have been using it for awhile now, They are in Texas now. The LHP makes the fuel
burn much more efficiently for increased fuel mileage & cleaner combustion chamber.
helps illuminate piston rattle, Detonation, etc. If I don't put it in the tank, I notice a
difference.

pantspisser
05-28-2017, 5:50 PM
Sam,

I think your jetting is good. A .265 intermediate is probably too lean for an 80" motor. A .280 or .295 otta be the money. If that is true, a .76 main seems a bit rich on paper (I'd expect a .70 to be better) however your head work might prefer the extra gas and regardless that main jet isn't screwing up your kicking game. Don't over stress the number of turns the mixture screw has out. That is just a vague starting point to get the bike started for dynamic tuning. I doubt your E has the newer adjustable bleed air feature and if it does I would verify it is the stock .40, i HIGHLY doubt it needs played with given your motor.

Tell us more about your starting routine when you notice the problem. Additionally, info on how your ignition is set up might be helpful too. Have you already performed some ignition/charging testing to eliminate that from your trouble shooting saga? A picture of your carb mounted to the bike would help too. Performing a low pressure leak check on the induction system will be incredibly helpful.

Hopefully by the time you answer the Spanish Inquisition you found the gremlin and are starting better, cheers man.

SamHain
06-03-2017, 2:20 PM
I've tried about every startin routine without much luck. I do pay attention to the turns, as that is supposed to suggest the jet sizing, keep it on the right part of the taper or some nonsense.

Pressure tested it last week, got it all good. Dropped to a 72 to do some testing. Started with two pumps, two primes, one kick this morning, then shut off after about 15 seconds, no sputter just a high idle to off. Didn't respond to a couple kicks, then fired right away with the enrichener open.

Haven't done any electrical testing, could be a loose connection somewhere, but other than that it's all fresh. Running points, have a lower carb support, teardrop aircleaner.

Dougtheinternetannoyance123
06-03-2017, 3:39 PM
All carb problems are electrical and all electrical problems are carb. Not saying for sure thats your issue,, but it should be tested and eliminated as the issue. I have had wires and connectors look good, but the wire strands were breaking inside the terminal and not making good connection. Took forever to ID the issue... I have seen several guys break down on runs and couldnt ID the issue then found a frayed wire that was chaffing. Some parts shake themselves to death, and just because a part is new does not mean its perfect. I have had to swap out parts that were new but had issues and drove me crazy figuring it out.
But I have seen a lot of people detune a fuel system thinking thats the issue when it was not. Be methodical and one change at a time, and if possible swap out parts off a known runner. See if you can run a buddies carb for a day or 2?

My friend used to be the customer service and trouble shooter at a dealership and sorted out these puzzles.

"It makes a weird noise and runs weird but only when going down hill and turning left over the railroad tracks, and only when it rains, otherwise it hardly does it. Seems to do it more in the Mornings, but I just started graveyard shift and it did it on Tuesday, but the rest of the week ran fine"

SamHain
06-03-2017, 3:57 PM
Yeah I've had my share of electrical gremlins over the years. Since this is only at dead cold start I tend to lean away from it, but the less I look into it the more likely it's where the problem is usually. I reckon that's about the best time for a low voltage to show its head.

HebrewHammer666
06-04-2017, 12:12 AM
I was pulling my hair out when my shovel was running like shit and dying on me. Fucked with my super e every which way possible. Would start one kick then sputter and die.
Lots of cursing and yelling later it turned out the coil was bad.
The guy that said fuel is electrical and vice versa really struck a chord with me haha.
Good luck dude.

SSCycle
06-06-2017, 3:55 PM
Can't seem to get this thing dialed. 80" shovel, built heads.

Was starting 1-2 kicks cold with a .028, but runs best only 3/4 turn out. With a .0265 it takes enough kicks to get me swearin and angry to start and still runs only just under 1 turn out, plugs run with pretty much no color on this, black plug base, clean center/electrode. Tried up to a 31 for fun that runs about 1/2 turn out.

What I know, mixture should be 1 to 1 1/2 out or it's time to change the jet. That would suggest I go down farther on the intermiediate, but seems really small and I already can't stand the 265. Main seems happiest about 76 as of now.

Any direction?

Carbs in some applications can require different set ups. If your bike was running good with a 28 at ĺ out on the screw ďrun itĒ. Your bike, much like a lady, will let you know when itís unhappy. If the plugs look good and the bike pulls proper then leave it alone. Our instructions are a great guide to get you going but the art of getting it set up the best for your application is up to you. Donít over think it, sounds like you know whatís going on.
Here's a tuning video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_uH72wDTL0&t=7s

Jeremy24
06-07-2017, 5:52 AM
i have an 80 with built head and pistons, i run a .0295 and 72 main and its great. 1 1/4 out on air mix and 2.5 out on accel pump

SamHain
10-04-2017, 6:06 PM
Had starting routine worked out, reckon it was mostly timing. 2 pumps two primes, key on fire right up. But

Pinging on takeoff constantly, so I jumped the pilot to 295, pinging seems better, haven't got a good hot ride yet. But starting fuckin sucks again; run for a second, but no idle then die a few times and take a good 10+kicks to get running.

I kinda hate carbs.

80", solids, points(new), new rotor/stator/reg/Batt, intake pressure tested. Have the main at 70, mix is under a turn out, still.

SamHain
10-04-2017, 6:51 PM
Fuck it. Back to the 280 I can't take it.

Sky
10-05-2017, 6:05 AM
Mix screw (needle and seat) un-buggered?
Accelerator pump in working order and adjusted properly?
You know, no missing o-ring or anything?
Spacer behind carb?
What kind of air filter?

What ignition are ya running?

Solids or hydro lifters?
Alloy or steel push rods?
Cam specs?

What are built heads? Re-built to stock specks or hot rodded?
What kind o' pipes you gots? Baffles or mufflers or what?

SamHain
10-05-2017, 7:15 AM
Mix screw (needle and seat) un-buggered?
Accelerator pump in working order and adjusted properly?
You know, no missing o-ring or anything?
Spacer behind carb?
What kind of air filter?

What ignition are ya running?

Solids or hydro lifters?
Alloy or steel push rods?
Cam specs?

What are built heads? Re-built to stock specks or hot rodded?
What kind o' pipes you gots? Baffles or mufflers or what?

Most that info is in there, the last post is the pertinent one.

Mix screw looks good. Pump working, set good maybe around 2 screws out, have t checked count in a while just operation.

Carb spacer, teardrop aircleaner, clean element.

Points, new s/s solid conversion, steel.

H cam

+.100 intakes, branch springs, mild porting.

Tapered mufflers, probably good and worn out.

Blackbetty
10-05-2017, 7:36 AM
hey sam

what a/c are you running - nm saw you said teardrop:

did you pull the auxiliary vent plug? Probably not necessary w the teardrop but worth a shot.

Check the float height next time you have the bowl off:

http://www.chrishajer.com/bike/XLF/float2.png

SamHain
10-05-2017, 7:54 AM
I'm not familiar with that vent plug I'll look into it. Float is set within specs.

SamHain
10-05-2017, 10:35 PM
Well I succeeded in making it start like shit putting it back how it was(exception of main from 72 to 70). Then back through Timing and back through carb. Still shit. Fuck these things drive me god damn nuts.

SamHain
10-06-2017, 8:32 AM
After a million kicks start. I decided to swap the main back to 72, even though it shouldn't be affecting, was the only thing left that I intentionally changed.

It was slightly warmed up so I can't be sure, but it started up easily. So how it goes Dead cold.