PDA

View Full Version : Crispy Fired Shovel Life after the fire?!?



RedemptionMotorcycles
06-23-2014, 11:54 AM
Hey guys,

Here are some pics of a Shovel that was burned in a fire. It's an '82 Wide Glide.
It was in the flames for about 10 minutes. Look at how cherry it was in the before pic!

So, I'm going to pick it up in a few hours and wondered what you guys think about rebuilding it.

I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know the condition other than the pic and that the guy said the aluminum is melted.

What should I look for in there frame to see if it still can be used? How about the cases?

Anyone recommend someone that can check out the tolerances for me?

Thanks!

4915749158

RedemptionMotorcycles
06-23-2014, 11:59 AM
Doh, the title should read Fried Shovel.

BTW, the one in front of it is a '68 and he is keeping it.

BurnoutNova
06-23-2014, 12:17 PM
That looks like its done. I don't think I would attempt to reuse any of that.

RedemptionMotorcycles
06-23-2014, 12:23 PM
That looks like its done. I don't think I would attempt to reuse any of that.


What would the neck with original title be worth?

IronManJr
06-23-2014, 12:37 PM
IF the title is clean, it's worth ~1k (here at least). But if, as I assume, he turned it into his insurance company they listed it as salvaged and that makes it basically a worthless piece of paper.

Personally, I wouldn't have anything to do with it. Fire does terrible, scary, and more often than not "hidden until it's too late" things to motorcycles.

BuddhahoodVato
06-23-2014, 1:43 PM
Hijo su, that puppy puro Junke now.

Tacitus
06-23-2014, 5:14 PM
It is scrap now.

StrawbellyJam
06-23-2014, 5:27 PM
Make an end table or a lamp out of it, maybe yard art.

numberonewing
06-23-2014, 9:20 PM
sell to local bike bar 4 art

houstonch73
06-23-2014, 9:21 PM
What would the neck with original title be worth?

well it would be worth 5-10 if you got caught selling it. If I were to buy a bike with a welded neck and found out later it wasn't what it was supposed to be, I'd kill someone.

Its just a dirtbag thing to do. Most people would be pretty upset to buy a "HD" to find out it was just an aftermarket frankenstein.

"do unto others....."

IronManJr
06-24-2014, 8:49 AM
It always surprises me when people want to buy a motorcycle that has been burnt to a crisp like this one. It is just plain dangerous. I totally understand sentimentality and wanting to restore something you have fond memories of, but that seems to never be the case with these types of things. What is the appeal of buying a burnt bike? Is it just because it's cheap? Not trying to be an asshole, just a legitimate question about something I don't understand.

Also, I couldn't agree more with Houstonch73, if you want to screw yourself legally that is on you, but to pass that burden on to someone is a dirty trick.

seaking
06-24-2014, 12:12 PM
I don't get why you guys are all spooked over titling off a neck. Someone who builds would be interested in it.

Ato
06-24-2014, 12:33 PM
well it would be worth 5-10 if you got caught selling it. If I were to buy a bike with a welded neck and found out later it wasn't what it was supposed to be, I'd kill someone.

Its just a dirtbag thing to do. Most people would be pretty upset to buy a "HD" to find out it was just an aftermarket frankenstein.

"do unto others....."

I guess someone should tell Voodoo Vintage Fab (http://voodoovintage.com/frames.html)that they are dirtbags and make frankenshit. If someone builds a frame around a necktube that has been legally obtained and drops in a new motor there is nothing wrong with that. If someone later buys that bike and they don't bother to check to see that the frame matches the engine, that's their problem.

seaking
06-24-2014, 12:57 PM
well it would be worth 5-10 if you got caught selling it. If I were to buy a bike with a welded neck and found out later it wasn't what it was supposed to be, I'd kill someone.

Its just a dirtbag thing to do. Most people would be pretty upset to buy a "HD" to find out it was just an aftermarket frankenstein.

"do unto others....."


haha you really think you'll get five to ten for pawning off a neck? OP I'm surprised you got this many shitty replies from a CHOPPER site. Go in with their attitude and you might be able to get the owner to PAY to to haul it away. It's at the bare minimum a good neck, maybe good frame and cases and go up from there. I wouldn't plan on rebuilding it though. Seems too far gone. Maybe you could salvage it and do a bottom end, but you'd be better off starting on something a little more....fresh......

houstonch73
06-24-2014, 1:12 PM
It always surprises me when people want to buy a motorcycle that has been burnt to a crisp like this one. It is just plain dangerous. I totally understand sentimentality and wanting to restore something you have fond memories of, but that seems to never be the case with these types of things. What is the appeal of buying a burnt bike? Is it just because it's cheap? Not trying to be an asshole, just a legitimate question about something I don't understand.

Also, I couldn't agree more with Houstonch73, if you want to screw yourself legally that is on you, but to pass that burden on to someone is a dirty trick.

Well it's good to see that at least one person understands the point.




I guess someone should tell Voodoo Vintage Fab (http://voodoovintage.com/frames.html)that they are dirtbags and make frankenshit. If someone builds a frame around a necktube that has been legally obtained and drops in a new motor there is nothing wrong with that. If someone later buys that bike and they don't bother to check to see that the frame matches the engine, that's their problem.

its not the frame not matching the engine that is the problem. That's easy enough to check. Its the fact that the bike is then titled a HD when in fact, only the neck is a HD and the rest of the frame could be god knows what. The neck and vin is only worth the money because it is an actual HD (and that by definition implies the rest of the bike is an HD).

Since you have trouble with seeing it from someone else's standpoint, try to look at it from your own. Would you be cool if you bought a Ferrari and later found out that only the VIN was Ferrari and the rest of the car was made in Taiwan by some gap toothed villager with a coathanger and and electrical cord? OR....think of your own car/truck. What if right now, you found out that piece of glorious engineering was actually NOT what you thought it was. Imagine that you paid twice the amount that you would have if you had known that it was mislabeled. Now imagine you evaluate your recourse and people tell you "that's your problem".

The point is, people later on are representing the bike as something it is not.



haha you really think you'll get five to ten for pawning off a neck? OP I'm surprised you got this many shitty replies from a CHOPPER site. Go in with their attitude and you might be able to get the owner to PAY to to haul it away. It's at the bare minimum a good neck, maybe good frame and cases and go up from there. I wouldn't plan on rebuilding it though. Seems too far gone. Maybe you could salvage it and do a bottom end, but you'd be better off starting on something a little more....fresh......

I'm not an attorney and was only using it as a figure of speech. Since you obviously know, would you care to share?

totally agree with you on the bike being a total loss. Many shops wont even bother with a fire bike as the metal condition is too big of an unknown.

RedemptionMotorcycles
06-24-2014, 1:16 PM
haha you really think you'll get five to ten for pawning off a neck? OP I'm surprised you got this many shitty replies from a CHOPPER site. Go in with their attitude and you might be able to get the owner to PAY to to haul it away. It's at the bare minimum a good neck, maybe good frame and cases and go up from there. I wouldn't plan on rebuilding it though. Seems too far gone. Maybe you could salvage it and do a bottom end, but you'd be better off starting on something a little more....fresh......

My thoughts exactly. I enjoy CC because I get honest critiques and information that is hard to find elsewhere. I passed on it as it looked too far gone to mess with. I may have decided this on my own, but the replies here confirmed that it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

Ato
06-24-2014, 1:47 PM
The difference is no one is turning a Ferrari into stretch limo, but lots of guys are turning an old wide glide into a barebones rigid chop. If you see a hardtail shovel for sale you should know at least half the frame is not original, is that not mean it's not an "H-D" anymore? What if someone turns it into a single downtube? What's the cut off point 51% of the metal must be original? If the headtube has been obtained legally what's the problem? It's not like anyone is going to go to the trouble of making a frame repop weld for weld to match a factory swingarm.

RedemptionMotorcycles
06-24-2014, 2:14 PM
The difference is no one is turning a Ferrari into stretch limo, but lots of guys are turning an old wide glide into a barebones rigid chop. If you see a hardtail shovel for sale you should know at least half the frame is not original, is that not mean it's not an "H-D" anymore? What if someone turns it into a single downtube? What's the cut off point 51% of the metal must be original? If the headtube has been obtained legally what's the problem? It's not like anyone is going to go to the trouble of making a frame repop weld for weld to match a factory swingarm.


Yep

houstonch73
06-24-2014, 3:05 PM
The difference is no one is turning a Ferrari into stretch limo, but lots of guys are turning an old wide glide into a barebones rigid chop. If you see a hardtail shovel for sale you should know at least half the frame is not original, is that not mean it's not an "H-D" anymore? What if someone turns it into a single downtube? What's the cut off point 51% of the metal must be original? If the headtube has been obtained legally what's the problem? It's not like anyone is going to go to the trouble of making a frame repop weld for weld to match a factory swingarm.

So what is the point of using a chopped off neck at all? If you're going to take the neck only (title attached) and attach it to something completely not what it was, then why change the neck if you're not doing so to just keep the HD in the title? I understand the idea of a chopper as my chop is a Jammer frame from the 70s. When it was built though, someone didn't chop the neck off a HD and then tack it on. They used the Jammer neck.

If someone wants a barebones, rigid chop, they should buy an (older) rigid frame, OR buy an aftermarket frame, OR build their own frame.

As for someone taking a HD neck from a rear trashed bike and then placing it on a repop frame and claiming the bike to still be "original", yeah, I've seen that done several times. There's shady people out there who will try to deceive people for money by claiming something it is not. Hard to believe but true.

houstonch73
06-24-2014, 3:11 PM
Is it illegal to take the VIN from a car and change it onto another car? Isn't that essentially what you're doing by taking the neck from one bike and putting it on another?

Ato
06-24-2014, 3:19 PM
So what is the point of using a chopped off neck at all? If you're going to take the neck only (title attached) and attach it to something completely not what it was, then why change the neck if you're not doing so to just keep the HD in the title? I understand the idea of a chopper as my chop is a Jammer frame from the 70s. When it was built though, someone didn't chop the neck off a HD and then tack it on. They used the Jammer neck.

If someone wants a barebones, rigid chop, they should buy an (older) rigid frame, OR buy an aftermarket frame, OR build their own frame.

As for someone taking a HD neck from a rear trashed bike and then placing it on a repop frame and claiming the bike to still be "original", yeah, I've seen that done several times. There's shady people out there who will try to deceive people for money by claiming something it is not. Hard to believe but true.

Because registering a bike with an MSO is near impossible in some states and would be impossible as a garage builder that made his own frame if you don't have a vin to back it up.

Ato
06-24-2014, 3:29 PM
Is it illegal to take the VIN from a car and change it onto another car? Isn't that essentially what you're doing by taking the neck from one bike and putting it on another?

That's vin swapping where you take a wrecked car and swap the vin from a stolen car, which is illegal and not the same at all.
Taking a good headtube that you legally own is like rebuilding the whole frame of that same wrecked to shit car and is called collision work.

farmall
06-24-2014, 3:32 PM
The frame is mild steel. It got much hotter at the weld joints when it was built. I'd blast and inspect rather than shitcanning it.

I'd have no problem owning and riding the shit out of a scoot based on that frame. It wasn't made from hardened steel.

What do we do when we weld frames? We MELT parts of them along with filler. That's a tad hotter than the fire depicted in the photo. So is frame material heated by OA torch to bend it.

The drivetrain also served to hold the frame together while cooking. :)

Harley frames are crude and tough. It's not a fucking birdcage Maserati. I'd strip it, carry it to a local monument shop (they use sandblasters to cut gravestones), get it blasted and give it a good visual inspection. I doubt it's bent as it wasn't under any load when burned.

As to other parts besides frame and swingarm etc, they may or may not be junk but it's easy enough to inspect them as they are being removed anyway.

It is easy to determine by individual examination if a part is good or bad, so examine and determine.

Neck transplants BTW are perfectly reasonable on obvious CHOPPERS and other customs, but I wouldn't just hack the neck off a straight frame.