PDA

View Full Version : Neglected XS motor, what would you do?



Ato
03-17-2014, 6:32 AM
Hey guys I'm looks for a few opinions from the guys who really know the XS motor and what the regular weak points are to focus on. I really don't know much about it, when it last ran, the mileage, or general condition. This is a ground up build that some of you might have already seen on the Greasy Dozen thread or on IG. For now the goal is just to get this pig running well enough to get it through the summer and rip it apart if need be next winter. With so many things to do and buy for this build, a motor rebuild isn't really one of them. So here is the question, what is the minimum you would do before dropping this motor back in the frame? I plan to call and order what I need today or tomorrow form 650central, but I need a shopping list. Here is what I have or plan to buy for sure.
HHB PMA
PAMCO ignition
Tack drive plug
Side cover gaskets
Starter gear cover gasket and freeze plug (going kick only)
Oil filter with gasket and oil sump filter with gasket
Cylinder head gasket (looks like this was leaking right in front of the oil tube)
Valve tappet cover seals and valve guide seals?
Shifter seal (behind the left cover, what the removable pin sits in, not sure if this is the name)
Oil line copper washers?
Cam chain?
Cam chain guide(Definitely fucked as they all are, evident in the photos below)

I'm sure I'm missing some shit, what are some other problem seals and gaskets that should be remedied. I guess I should also say that I did a compression test on the motor in the stand and got some low numbers, around 90. Then I took some PB buster, hit the intake and exhaust ports and put a little oil in each cylinder and turned the engine a bit to cycle it. I let it sit for a few days then hit the valves and openings with a brass brush from a gun cleaning kit then took another test and got 117 on each side. With the oil filters out I saw the usually plastic shit and metal shavings in the filter, but they don't seem to be magnetic and look aluminum, but I understand that to be all cam chain guide issues that are very common and easily fixable.
Check out the gayed up photos I pulled from IG, I can also take better ones when I get home if that helps anyone, let me know, thanks.

NIGHTTIGER666
03-17-2014, 10:27 AM
One piece clutch pushrod and throwout bearing.
Kick spring.

Dieselchanic
03-17-2014, 12:08 PM
I just read a thread on this on xs650.com. Some of the main things they focused on were lubing the valve guides(which sounds like you've already done) and making sure your mechanical advance is free and in working order. Apparently after they've been sitting they can eat the valve guides and if the advance is out... Well duh.

I don't have any personal experience.

Ato
03-17-2014, 12:14 PM
I just read a thread on this on xs650.com. Some of the main things they focused on were lubing the valve guides(which sounds like you've already done) and making sure your mechanical advance is free and in working order. Apparently after they've been sitting they can eat the valve guides and if the advance is out... Well duh.

I don't have any personal experience.

That part shouldn't be a problem since it's TCI and getting a full replacement anyway.
Hell maybe I'll just keep it simple from 650central and just go with, side cover gaskets, pushrod and seal, head gasket, filters and gasket, starter gear gasket, cam chain guide and chain.
I still need to get the Pamco and all the shit to make it work so I guess if I need more for the motor I can always get it then.

Dieselchanic
03-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Good call. I'm going to replace my mech advance with a E unit. With what you already posted I think you've pretty much got it covered.

Ato
03-17-2014, 12:44 PM
Just made a quick shopping list at Mikesxs, although I'll order from 650central and I think I've got pretty much everything covered.
Stock Bore Cylinder Base Gasket
Oil Filter Screen (in RH engine side cvr)
Gasket - Filter element base
Gasket - oil filter strainer (sump) plate
OEM type Oil Filter Strainer (Sump)
Gasket -Starter, gear train cover
Gasket - LH case cover (Alternator)
Gasket - RH crankcase cover (Clutch)
Clutch Pushrod - Long one piece type
Ball Bearing - for Clutch Pushrod Assy.
Bushing-clutch pushrod
Clutch pushrod oil seal
OEM type Oil Filter Strainer (Sump)
Oil Filter Screen (in RH engine side cvr)
Front Cam Chain Guide
Cam Chain- DID 219FTssx106

I'm pretty sure I should have just left the question over here instead of asking at xs650.com. I appreciate the knowledge a lot of those guys have but I pretty much got exactly what I stated I wasn't looking for, tear the engine down at least to the cases and start fresh. This isn't my only bike so if the refresh doesn't work than so be it, I'll tear the engine down, but I would prefer to have the project be in runnable stages.

dpontherocks
03-17-2014, 8:03 PM
One piece clutch pushrod and throwout bearing.

Kick spring.


This. And order a couple of the clutch pushrod seals. It's one of the most common leaky spots on these motors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clockwork444
03-17-2014, 8:30 PM
cam chain guides, oil pan filter and oil pan gasket. all the small gaskets on the clutch pushrod, PTO (sprocket) shaft, shift shaft. new clutch discs. adjust valves. i would go with a single point and a dual lobe cam insert. i only say this from experience with 3 electronic ignitions that failed in less than 5 miles. they just couldnt hold up to the vibration the hardtail bike made

3Deuces
03-18-2014, 4:46 AM
I basically did everything you are planning to do, except I threw a set of rings in and had the cylinders bead honed to break the glaze. I also lapped the valves while I had the head apart to replace the valve guide seals and a munched valve adjuster. Oh, I didn't put a new cam chain in, either.
Also, my Pamco has held up fine for two years now on a hardtail.

BrokenSprocketGarage
03-18-2014, 5:04 AM
I basically did everything you are planning to do, except I threw a set of rings in and had the cylinders bead honed to break the glaze. I also lapped the valves while I had the head apart to replace the valve guide seals and a munched valve adjuster. Oh, I didn't put a new cam chain in, either.
Also, my Pamco has held up fine for two years now on a hardtail.

Can't believe it took nine posts for someone to mention piston rings and cylider hone.
Are you ordering the Pamco with the new electronic advance?

Ato
03-18-2014, 6:50 AM
Can't believe it took nine posts for someone to mention piston rings and cylider hone.
Are you ordering the Pamco with the new electronic advance?

You mean why didn't someone earlier or it should have been on the list earlier? Anyway, that's not happening unless it needs to. For the Pamco I'll go E-adv.

Ato
03-18-2014, 6:52 AM
This. And order a couple of the clutch pushrod seals. It's one of the most common leaky spots on these motors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So even though my kicker is fine now you think I should replace the spring as a precaution?

BrokenSprocketGarage
03-18-2014, 6:31 PM
If you plan on replacing the base gasket, at minimum, you should replace the piston rings. It's just good practice to replace rings any time you remove a cylinder. Better would be to have the cylinders checked out at a competent machine shop for out of round, out of tolerance piston fit etc.. You had low compression readings right? Then they were higher after adding some oil into the combustion chamber. This indicates loose piston ring fit and/or piston to cylinder fit.
Interested to hear how that e-advance works out. I plan on running my stock TCI till it quits. Same for charging system.

Ato
03-18-2014, 6:50 PM
I just realized I put base gasket not cylinder head gasket, I don't plan on lifting the jugs. The compression was low but I'm pretty sure it was more from the sticking valves than worn rings. Plus I forgot to mention one thing, I first test was with the e start grinding from a bad bendix on a battery. The second was after kicking in a bench in the basement with a low ceiling.
I figure if it fires up and runs ok I'm good, if not I'll dig deeper, but those are all pieces I would replace anyway so I'm not really outside anything.

Clockwork444
03-18-2014, 8:35 PM
i honestly think that an electronic ignition is a waste on these i got sick of installing new ones and they kept burning up and the same solder joint on every one had a black spot. they tried to claim it was something to do with the electrical on my end so i showed them all of the stuff i had an xscharge PMA kit. never had a problem with PMA, its awesome. anyways to each their own. i just dont want to hear another story of how someone was on the side of the road with no spark lol

Ato
03-18-2014, 8:48 PM
i honestly think that an electronic ignition is a waste on these i got sick of installing new ones and they kept burning up and the same solder joint on every one had a black spot. they tried to claim it was something to do with the electrical on my end so i showed them all of the stuff i had an xscharge PMA kit. never had a problem with PMA, its awesome. anyways to each their own. i just dont want to hear another story of how someone was on the side of the road with no spark lol
The bike is a 80 so I'm area running TCI. I imagine I could've find an old points setup to switch out, but that seems like more trouble than the electronic i ignition au that point.

Clockwork444
03-18-2014, 10:00 PM
yeah you need a mechanical advance and a set of points to get rid of the factory tci if you go that route

dpontherocks
03-20-2014, 9:14 AM
So even though my kicker is fine now you think I should replace the spring as a precaution?

not sure what you mean here. the kicker doesn't really have anything to do with the clutch pushrod seal. this is the seal that sits right by the sprocket on the shift side of your motor and is an easy fix for a common leaky spot. and the throwout bearing and pushrod can easily be replaced by anybody who can read the manual and really help out with sticky/slipping clutches. and daroberts, i think somebody might have mentioned getting the top end in line sooner but it didn't seem like this dude was wanting to crack the motor at all so really there ain't a whole lot you can do other than replace seals and gaskets, adjust valves, clean carbs, upgrade the charging system that is notoriously shitty, choose what type of ignition you'd like to run, and hope that there isn't anything hanging out inside your motor waiting to ruin your life once you turn it over. you're on the right track so far. definitely take out that sump filter and look at what's resting in the bottom of the motor. little black hard pieces could mean that you need a new cam chain tensioner and/or guide. bunch of metal shavings and chunks and it could be something else. keep in mind, daroberts3 has a great point that it may be annoying to wait for the time/money to do it right but it would be way better in the long run to take the top end off and have it checked by a machine shop and make sure your cylinders and valves are in spec. valve stem seals and valve guides and valve seats along with a good honing and new rings is the correct start to making a good reliable motor. i had to wait almost an extra year to make this happen for mine but it was worth it to me. all this being said, i'm not a mechanic or a bike builder. i am just some dude who bought one of these bikes and a manual and reads a lot of shit on the internet. just remember, everything you read on the internet is true. and it's early in the morning and i drank a LOT last night so none of this might make sense.

Ato
03-20-2014, 10:24 AM
You quoted someone saying kick spring and said what he said plus x, I guess that's where the confusion lies. I know what a push rod is, and I have to say, you make way more sense than I do drunk typing.