PDA

View Full Version : 883 to 1200 Ripper Kit



wompin
11-17-2013, 8:27 PM
Ive been planning to install the upkit ever since I got the balls to tell me wife I WAS doing it this past fall. We ride 2 up a lot and as you all know the 883 pulls like a fraggin moped when were loaded entering the freeway.

I set out researching the various options (there are many) and most all seemed to make sense depending on what you were aiming for and/or how much debt you like to sit in. Apparently some guys will bore out theyre cases and plop in some ungodly 90" jugs in a sporty, throw down somewhere around $2000 on cams, ignition, heads or headwork, bore-hone jobs or jugs, and put up dyno tickets or 1/4 mile numbers on their fridge. Thats pretty sweet, but im broke and I ride this bike every damn day.

So, long story short I found the most economical route for what I want. That is to be able to lug me and my wifes fat asses around loaded up with a tent and bag and maintain a respectable amount of pull. I ordered a Weisco 1200 jug n piston kit w/ dished 9.5:1 moly-coated pistons, Hastings rings and "included head and base gaskets", a cometic rocker box gasket kit, pushrod seals, valve seals, intake seals, a 170, 175, and 180 CV main jet, and a 29 tooth front pulley. All told Im in about $600.

I went with the new jugs cause machining price is comparable. All the parts are good quality without going too crazy. The pulley will change gearing closer to the 1200 and thus keep rpms lower at cruising while still keeping enough torque at hand.

Ill be getting all the stuff in this week, and I got a start on the tear down last night. Let me know if you see anything you like, dont like, Im doing completely ass backwards, etc. Thanks

junkyardxl
11-17-2013, 8:35 PM
Seems like you have a pretty good start on things so far. What pipe and air cleaner you running?

wompin
11-17-2013, 8:46 PM
Mooneyes louvered air cleaner with paper element, stock keihin cv carb, stock crossover 2-1-2 pipes.

Id love a 2-1 but its not in the books right now

BrokenSprocketGarage
11-17-2013, 8:54 PM
You will need a larger pilot jet. Probably a #46 is where I would start. An adjustable slide needle would also help with smooth throttle transitions.
What is the mileage on the motor now? You might want to consider new hydraulic lifters if you have 50,000 miles or more.
I would also recommend removing all the valves, cleaning them and hand lapping them.
What about your ignition? Is it still going to be stock?

wompin
11-17-2013, 9:33 PM
I got the tank, battery, carb, and pipes off, next step mounts, heads, jugs n pistons

(im figuring out how to insert the image url, bare with me)

wompin
11-17-2013, 9:38 PM
You will need a larger pilot jet. Probably a #46 is where I would start. An adjustable slide needle would also help with smooth throttle transitions.
What is the mileage on the motor now? You might want to consider new hydraulic lifters if you have 50,000 miles or more.
I would also recommend removing all the valves, cleaning them and hand lapping them.
What about your ignition? Is it still going to be stock?

Thanks for the input. I guess the I just flapped open the clymer and HD manuals and picked out the stock 1200 jet sizes. Pilot jets are the same (42) for both 883 and 1200. Its a 2000. I was definately going to clean the heads n valves and lap them. Ive gotta take em out to put on the new seals anyway, its stupid not to lap them at that point. The motor only has 14000, so Im not going to go bat shit crazy reworking everything in the motor, just the obvious stuff and things that are too simple not to do while I have the top end open.

I havent opened the carb yet. Do the stock CV needles not have little ridges to reset the clip and raise/lower the needle. I guess I assumed all carbs have adjustable slide needle in that sense. Or are you talking about something else?

I am keepin the cam stock, so I figured timing would be fine with the stock ignition. If thats not the case maybe ill look for a used 1200 ignition. It seems like I read somewhere that the 883 ignition works fine with the 1200 set up. Of course everyones got opinons...

wompin
11-17-2013, 10:05 PM
Drained the gas and ready to strip:

http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/23000/22239/86500.jpg

Hired help (they're lousy buy loyal):

http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/23000/22239/86494.jpg

Stopping point till the jug kit gets here (Wednesday?):

http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/23000/22239/86492.jpg

junkyardxl
11-17-2013, 10:53 PM
stock ignition will be fine with that compression no need to adjust. my only word of advise is on the retorque DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN! stick with numbers and no tighter. and when doing the sprocket dont forget its clockwise to loosen. but you said you have a manual all this stuff is basic.

BrokenSprocketGarage
11-18-2013, 7:12 AM
H-D's stock Keihin CV carb ( made in Japan) DOES NOT have an adjustable slide needle. Aftermarket has plenty of options. I use a Keyster brand and a #46 pilot jet, about a $40 kit. The stock #42 is too lean for a 1200cc. Change it!
I would advance the timing a degree or so on the stock timing unit, and adjust the VOES switch to a lower vacuum setting. Something around 4inHg.
A single fire Ignition would really help you realize the full potential of this engine package.

Saltytonk
11-18-2013, 7:58 AM
You might want to get a stiffer clutch spring too. The stock 883 spring is not near as stiff and will give way with the extra torque.

wompin
11-18-2013, 3:52 PM
Right on guys. Ill look into all those things. Not sure how to adjust the VOES but Im sure my manual goes into it.

Any idea why a stock 1200 runs on 42 slow jet if the consensus is a 46 is needed? EPA maybe?

$40 seems steep for a brass needle and jet, but it is what it is I guess...

Do you think most guys swap the clutch springs too. I don't think Ive seen anyone mention that yet.

punkrod
11-18-2013, 4:52 PM
I've done that exact kit myself, several times. The factory 1200 cylinders were close enough but I usually had my 883's bored out to match the aftermarket pistons exactly. It was cheaper in my case to go with boring.

As far as the carb goes, the jetting will be different because you're using the 883 heads which flow differently, (better IMO), than the factory 1200 heads. I found the sportster needle worked just fine with a #4 washer under the head to raise it up a scosh. Your exhaust and air cleaner will have an effect on jetting. I think the last one I did had a 48 pilot and a 185 main jet. I usually just buy the jets instead of the kit.

The VOES adjustment isn't in the manual but there's a few sites online that show how to do it.
http://www.mklsportster.com/xlvoes.htm

Many folks switch the clutch spring to a stronger one. Give the bike a try with the stock spring and run it hard to see if it slips. The Barnett clutch kit is usually the one because it's easy to get and works well. Their spring is great if not a little too heavy, but if you're on a budget you can switch one out from a big twin p/n 37871-90.

Your bike will have more torque and horsepower and an ignition change will help too. The factory ignition is good with a little tweaking to the voes and bump the timing a scosh. I switched my old bike to a Dyna 2Ki kit with a single fire coil and it seemed to have a bit more pep plus I was able to raise the rev limit, ditch the VOES and have the whole ignition in-cone.

wompin
11-18-2013, 10:44 PM
I think for now (until I get the jugs in) Im gonna go conservative on the carb. Keep in mind this will just be my starting point.

I went ahead and put in the 175 main. Its one size up from 1200 stock, and if I can tune the mix to work, ill be saving fuel, which believe it or not is pretty important to me. Same logic on keepin the 42 slow jet for now. I found some pretty nifty stuff on tuning air mix and idle speed:

http://www.sallongriders.com/Documents/Adjusting%20the%20Carburetor.pdf

Ive gotta pick up a proper washer at ACE tomorrow, then Ill shim the stock needle up a "scoshe". Is there any reason not to use a nylon washer for the shim?

Heres a useless pic of the carb:

http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/23000/22239/86561.jpg

brooklynbomber
11-19-2013, 1:00 PM
FYI - I had an 883 converted to a 1200 and found that it was really happy a 46/pilot - 180/main with open pipes and mesh air cleaner. Didnt shim anything, just used the NC65 needle with Dyna 2ki and she really woke up.

wompin
11-19-2013, 4:39 PM
I think I may get away with my 42 and just reset the mix screw (capped with aluminum plug) since I have a paper filter and baffled 2-1-2 pipes.

Ill try shimming the needle first. If Ive got mid-range issues Ill get the '88 sporty needle

hillakilla
11-19-2013, 5:12 PM
i think i may get away with my 42 and just reset the mix screw (capped with aluminum plug) since i have a paper filter and baffled 2-1-2 pipes.

Ill try shimming the needle first. If ive got mid-range issues ill get the '88 sporty needle

let 'er breathe!!!!!

sportysrock
11-20-2013, 7:10 PM
Stock 883 heads with a 1200 kit makes a 1200 ignition module desireable. A stock take-off will work. You don't have to adjust the voes switch, just check it works right. A 45 slow jet, shimmed needle, 180 main jet, & adjusted idle mix screw should work. Replace intake and exhaust gaskets.

Sent with :-)

wompin
11-20-2013, 9:27 PM
Thanks for all the recipies on performance guys. Im anxiously awaiting a call from Bob (my indy guy) to say hes got the jugs n pistons in. Ill prob stay up all night puttin it in cause Im a tweak like that.

Once it comes time for a tunin Ill be goin back over everyones input and brew up some good 14:1 air fuel voodoo.

more to come. . .

sportysrock
11-21-2013, 9:08 AM
You want the 1200 ign. because the advance curve is different than the 883's. Good luck!

Sent with :-)

wompin
11-21-2013, 3:11 PM
You want the 1200 ign. because the advance curve is different than the 883's. Good luck!

Sent with :-)

What year range is this the case for? Ive heard some guys say the ignition is the same and some say its different. It sucks tryin to sort out contradictory internet wisdom

sportysrock
11-21-2013, 9:48 PM
What year range is this the case for? Ive heard some guys say the ignition is the same and some say its different. It sucks tryin to sort out contradictory internet wisdom

Looking on the parts microfiche @ Ronnie's HD site, ign. for year 2000
883 p/n 32466-98
1200 p/n 32465-98
VOES sw. both 26558-94


Sent with :-)

wompin
11-30-2013, 12:38 AM
So Ive been waiting forever for my cylinder kit to come in. I guess they sent it to california accidentally. :asshat:

Anyway I got the heads cleaned up and lapped the valves tonight. The exhaust valves and some spots on the intake seat have some pitting. Im not sure if this is severe or acceptable. I never noticed any weird power or compression issues while running it this past season. The combustion chamber did have a fair amount of carbon build up though.

I lapped each valve/seat for a total of probably 30 sec to 1 min lifting and tapping periodically.

Any thoughts?

http://www.chopcult.com/wompin/albums/10012/86853

http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/23000/22239/86854.jpg

http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/23000/22239/86855.jpg

ThePete
11-30-2013, 5:23 AM
Never pulled apart a motorcycle head to lap my own valves but one trick I learned that made the job a lot faster and easier for cars was to use a cordless drill attached to the valve stems. I don't know how severe the pitting is since I can't really tell on my iPhone so I can't say.

BrokenSprocketGarage
11-30-2013, 9:38 AM
Those pits are unacceptable. You need to lap for a little longer or the valve seats need to be cut and the valves ground. The whole purpose of lapping a valve is for a completely clean smooth seal. Do it right while it is apart. If you send this to a machine shop you should also price out a larger intake valve job.

wompin
11-30-2013, 11:16 AM
Wow that sucks. What affect does this type of pitting have? The bike was running like a cherry for the last 15000 miles. . .

Im gonna try lapping them a bit longer. If I sent the heads to a machine shop I think my wife will cut my balls off in my sleep (aka Im broke from buying diapers)

junkyardxl
11-30-2013, 11:31 AM
I had a set of heads done, 3 angled and everything and it was pretty cheap actually. I'd just lap them longer if I were you.

wompin
11-30-2013, 11:35 AM
mmmmkay

What is pretty cheap if you dont mind me askin? Im a pretty cheap guy so I might be able to swing it.

In the mean time Im gonna lap em a bit and try not to eat away the whole face. Updates in an hour or so...

BrokenSprocketGarage
11-30-2013, 12:57 PM
Yup, lap your balls off! Ha, either lap your balls off or send heads to a machine shop and your wife will cut your balls off. End result either way is ball-less Wompin:eek:

junkyardxl
11-30-2013, 1:31 PM
I think it was like 100 bucks here in nc.

junkyardxl
11-30-2013, 2:36 PM
I think it was like 100 bucks here in nc.

That also included decking and the valve works and vat cleaning

wompin
11-30-2013, 3:36 PM
I worked on the valves a little more but the pitting still shows and I dont want to make the seat contact area too wide.

I see a couple options:


reasseble and pour carb cleaner in, check for leaks, if none im "good" ($0)
buy new exhaust valves, reassemble, go (approx $40 - $80)
have valves n seats re-cut and mated ($100 +/-)


If I buy new valves, do I need the seats recut anyway or can I just check for leaks or lap a bit and check for leaks?

wompin
11-30-2013, 3:37 PM
Yup, lap your balls off! Ha, either lap your balls off or send heads to a machine shop and your wife will cut your balls off. End result either way is ball-less Wompin:eek:

I suppose it was always inevitable. fuck me

wompin
11-30-2013, 5:19 PM
Just ordered a pair of kibblewhite black diamond exhaust valves, std size for $65. They are nitride coated to supposedly resist heat and wear. Thanks for the input guys

I should be getting the jugs, pistons, and valves next week, so Ill be following up next weekend probably. That is unless they ship my stuff to california again.