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View Full Version : wiring help... got the fire part covered



Frankenfab
03-21-2010, 10:48 PM
Ok, so.. I am using this diagram as I am unfortunately 1) colorblind and 2) a fucking moron with wiring.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll175/Frankenfab/noid-chopperwiringdiagram.jpg





Ok so...
The only difference on this bike from the diagram is that I am running some old Dyna electronic ignition that came with the motor that is in the bike. I just duplicated what was done on the prior harness so there are two wires coming out of the box to the coils, one ground to the motor from the box and one positive that is on switched power.
Had everything wired up and when kicking had no spark. Started working back through shit. Realized that there was not a brush in the left side of the stator. Don't see why this would matter, should be able to get spark/run the bike without it but the battery would not charge as far as I know.
Go to screw in the brushes and started getting sparks when the wiring was touching the brush plates? Odd, but just disconnected the battery and screwed em down
Started to reconnect the POS on the battery and bam... fire.
So, here is the deal.

When viewing that diagram you can see where the black wire from the stator connects with the light green (maybe) from the Reg/Rec into a single wire with in turn goes to the switched power. This wire was completely burned out/what burned in addition to the wire that comes off the left side (black I assume) of the brushes being crispy now too.

Soooo.... your thoughts????????

Frankenfab
03-21-2010, 10:54 PM
In staring at this for another sec I realized that the POS leg should have been on the opposite side of the switch EG not always connected to the battery. However, that just means that once the swich was flipped I would have had the same result just like when reconnecting the battery. As far as I can tell at least....

Frankenfab
03-21-2010, 11:04 PM
Using this diagram, it seems like the dark colored wire (that appears to be black to me) should actually be grounded....?

http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll175/Frankenfab/?action=view&current=xs650.jpg

Frankenfab
03-21-2010, 11:04 PM
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll175/Frankenfab/xs650.jpg

Frankenfab
03-21-2010, 11:12 PM
MOTHERFUCKER. THAT IS CLEARLY A GROUND THAT IS MISMARKED IN THE FIRST DIAGRAM.

Someone needs to drive to the guys house that made that and throw a bag of dead rats over the fence.

VJ
03-22-2010, 4:46 AM
Yep 1st diagram has ground connected to hot. BTW did you replace your stator screws with nylon as in the notes?

Frankenfab
03-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Yeah, swapped them out.

VJ
03-22-2010, 4:13 PM
Rewire according to the second diagram. I hope you only fried a few wires.

slimvulcanrider
03-22-2010, 4:22 PM
hope the damage wasn't too bad

Frankenfab
03-22-2010, 6:45 PM
It wasnt.. I just fucking hate wiring. I can build a bike from the ground up but cannot really see most colors so wiring is just fucked/frustrating no matter what.

So... to add to this being super frustrating I am trying to use a Dyna electronic ignition that came with the motor that I am running and cannot get anywhere with that either. There are three wires from the sensor plate running back to the box... a white/black/red. The red is showing it has voltage with the switch on so I would imagine that is all that is needed. However, when kicking the bike over there is no voltage increase in either lead that is supposed to go to either coil.
Just about ready to throw a points setup on and start from square one.

Frankenfab
03-22-2010, 6:46 PM
How would you rewire according to the second diagram if you were running two coils?

SMChewy
03-22-2010, 7:36 PM
On the Dyna module, the red is hot, the other 2 should be the coil triggers. They will not give off power, they will give a ground (set your meter to OHMS or continuity. Look at the bottom analog looking read out with the bars that slide across bottom if your meter has it, not the number. When the motor turns it should fluctuate. Sometimes it is so quick the continuity setting won't beep, that is why you can use the ohms side). This is what charges the coil (when it is at ground on the trigger side, with 12v constant on the other side of the coil) when the ground goes away, the power in the coil has no where to go, and "jumps" to the secondary winding in the coil, thus giving juice down the plug wires. I am assuming the module is a single fire (one trigger per cylinder, or one trigger per coil). My dual fire was the same but minus one trigger (fires both plugs at the same time). The module itself case grounded when mounted. Hope that helps you out some.

SMChewy
03-22-2010, 7:44 PM
How would you rewire according to the second diagram if you were running two coils?

12 volts to the positive on both coils (most coils don't matter what is positive and what is the trigger side, but check your instructions to be safe). Your ignition module has 3 wires coming off it. Again all electrics need positive and negative. The module get's negative when it is mounted to the motor case, the red is usually the power for the module, always get instructions and double check, if you don't have them you can usually download them from the company site. This leaves 2 wires open off the module. Each is a trigger wire for a coil. These would go to the trigger (negative) side of the coils. One to each coil. The only thing to make sure of is it is triggering the right cylinder. Once wired and static timing is set you can easily just swap plug wires to make sure they are triggering the right cylinder. Hope this helps as well. Just got done doing this on my bike, and it was still a pain. I am a certified 12v specialist (MECP) and worked in the car audio industry for 10 years, and it was still a pain for me to get it all right. If any of this seems like over explaining, I am sorry, just don't know how much you know about electronics. Good luck.

Frankenfab
03-22-2010, 11:34 PM
Ok, that totally makes sense and explains why I was not getting spark. I need to run seperate 12v to each coil on say the orange connections and then the two outputs from the ignition to the other contacts on the coils. I was interpreting the outputs from the ignition as the 12v source... Should it just be one 12v off the toggle switch from the battery split to each coil? any problem with that?
Also... any thoughts on the brushes? I think the answer is just running that wire (that burned) to ground instead of positive

SMChewy
03-23-2010, 12:19 AM
Ok, that totally makes sense and explains why I was not getting spark. I need to run seperate 12v to each coil on say the orange connections and then the two outputs from the ignition to the other contacts on the coils. I was interpreting the outputs from the ignition as the 12v source... Should it just be one 12v off the toggle switch from the battery split to each coil? any problem with that?
Also... any thoughts on the brushes? I think the answer is just running that wire (that burned) to ground instead of positive

Yes, you can split the 12v off one lead. As for the brushes, I won't lie. I am unsure of that. Sorry my man.

Frankenfab
03-23-2010, 12:59 AM
No fucking worries dude... I really appreciate the help!!!!

VJ
03-23-2010, 4:49 AM
Normally I would say to redo the burnt wire and run it to ground. However not knowing exactly how your wiring is or what was damaged. I suggest you install the new wire but do not ground or connect it any where. If you have the spark situation righted. Start the bike and check your battery voltage at 4000rpm. If it's 12v or less. Shut it down. With everything off. Touch the bare wire to ground. If no sparking happens. Turn on the ignition and touch the wire to ground if it sparks a little but the wire doesn't get hot ok. No spark at all ok. Turn off the ignition and hook it solidly to ground. Start the bike again and recheck your battery voltage. If it reads 13v or 14 you're good.

Frankenfab
03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
You think like I was thinking.. in hindsight of my prior thinking.. which was based on the diagram.

So I am now thinking it is still a good idea to UN ground the brushes with nylon screws as instructed... think?

VJ
03-23-2010, 5:18 PM
yes. I think the brushes should not be grounded. Many years ago I had a bike with brushes in a phenolic block. Bike wouldn't charge. I removed the block and cleaned it good with start spray . Bingo it was charging. All I can figure is a bit of carbon dust from the brushes grounded them through that block.

Frankenfab
03-24-2010, 9:43 PM
Have spark now :) Haven't fucked with the charging yet, spend half the day tracking down other stuff

gandgcustoms
03-30-2010, 3:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8mnmH59Azc&feature=related

looked at both diagrams doing mine right now wired my bros kz305 with no problems