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seatraveler
01-02-2013, 11:21 AM
Im looking for painters who can tell me a thing or two about painting and prepping a tank.

Im going to most likely use testors paint cans and may possibly shake some flake on the last coat.

Every paint thread I have looked at recently says prep is the most crucial step to having a great looking tank. So if Im starting with a tank that has an old base black on it should I strip that off and start with bare metal?

If stripping the paint is the answer I still need to cover a few small dents. Im guessing bondo them and then lay down a self etching primer? Should I run a small layer of bondo over the whole tank for a smoother painting surface?

:cheersmate:

NGH450
01-02-2013, 11:58 AM
well prep is a very important process i wouldn't call it a step because it itself is many steps....to me anyways.

If that black base thats on there is in decent shape, like its not chipping, pealing or bubbling from rust underneath your probably ok with not stripping the whole tank.

For the small dings i would grind them down and get the paint off of them and do your bondo. I would stay away from bondoing the whole tank because at that point what is smooth and flat is going to be nearly impossible to tell.

I'm not sure what kind of pain the testors that you plan to use is. like acrylic lacquer or acrylic enamel. if that black is enamel then spraying lacquer over it will wrinkle up and look horrible. so that might be step 1. clean and paint a small area (maybe underside of tank) to test it before you prep it and get it all smoothed out and then spray on a wrinkle finish. if it does wrinkle your best bet is going to be use some stripper and get it all off there 1st. (fyi you can spray enamel over lacquer paint)

self etching primers are for bare metal. filler primers can be used after you smooth your bondo out. you spray them, let them dry, then block sand with something like 220 or 320 then repeat a few more times as nessecary.

a suggestion that i've learned the hard way is to take your time and not rush thru it or it will show.

hopefully this makes sense and my grammar isn't to terrible. haha

pics would be good also :)

xl1200s
01-02-2013, 12:02 PM
OK so prep IS the most important but the level of prep depends on how much is needed and how much of a perfectionist you are.

strip it to bare metal then use filler over the entire area sand with block and pad and re apply filler as needed till the surface is consistent and use a high fill primer then sand again then use a primer sealer then paint and wet sand between coats.

also use grease and wax remover to wipe it all the time during prep and wear blue nitrile gloves.

OhioFlameThrower
01-02-2013, 12:09 PM
Strip it to bare metal... I would not trust that Testor's paint on top of ANY existing paint. Strip or sandblast it clean, do the bodywork to the dented areas and leave the other areas bare metal. Feather out the filler by sanding lightly to the edges until smooth... use a straightedge to check the filler-to-metal transistion.

I don't use self-etching primer unless I'm priming over something like scoth-brited chrome or stanless steel, but any good primer will work. I prefer Dupli-Color.

Do yourself a massive favor and spray a "test" piece with primer and then the Testor's paint to be sure it does not cause any chemical issues. If you craze a test piece it's no big deal.

Good luck, man!

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

seatraveler
01-02-2013, 12:12 PM
Strip it to bare metal... I would not trust that Testor's paint on top of ANY existing paint. Strip or sandblast it clean, do the bodywork to the dented areas and leave the other areas bare metal. Feather out the filler by sanding lightly to the edges until smooth... use a straightedge to check the filler-to-metal transistion.

I don't use self-etching primer unless I'm priming over something like scoth-brited chrome or stanless steel, but any good primer will work. I prefer Dupli-Color.

Do yourself a massive favor and spray a "test" piece with primer and then the Testor's paint to be sure it does not cause any chemical issues. If you craze a test piece it's no big deal.

Good luck, man!

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

Super cool of you to throw in your advice I appreciate it :cheersmate: happy new year!

seatraveler
01-02-2013, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the help guys I will post pics asap.

http://www.testors.com/category/136964?n=0

Above is a link to the paints i want to use. They have great blues for what I plan on doing.

Thanks again keep the tips coming

sixball
01-02-2013, 12:56 PM
For rattelcan:

Your better off stripping to bare metal as pointed out. Get some Duplicolor prep wipes, buy several, they are cheap. Wipe the tank down and do your bondo and sand smooth, wash, n wipe it down and with it bare metal, I'd use self etching primer, afew coats, sand smooth. If you have pock marks in your bondo, you can use some high build primer, wet sand smooth, wash, wipe it down with the prep wipe and your ready for color.

Now I would suggest using something other than the Testors. It's model paint, and may or may not be UV protected from the sun exposure, and I would bet it is not made to withstand the exposure a bike gets outside. Plus they are small cans. HOK makes alot of cool colors in the can, and it's quality stuff, also Alsa makes different colors, and you can also get most auto paint supply places to put mixed, or stock colors in rattelcans.

Also, check into the Spraymax 2K clear to topcoat. Great product and gas resistant. Nothing would suck more than to spend weeks prepping and painting a tank, only to see it run off onto the gas station concrete after a spill.

Sixball

seatraveler
01-02-2013, 1:09 PM
For rattelcan:

Your better off stripping to bare metal as pointed out. Get some Duplicolor prep wipes, buy several, they are cheap. Wipe the tank down and do your bondo and sand smooth, wash, n wipe it down and with it bare metal, I'd use self etching primer, afew coats, sand smooth. If you have pock marks in your bondo, you can use some high build primer, wet sand smooth, wash, wipe it down with the prep wipe and your ready for color.

Now I would suggest using something other than the Testors. It's model paint, and may or may not be UV protected from the sun exposure, and I would bet it is not made to withstand the exposure a bike gets outside. Plus they are small cans. HOK makes alot of cool colors in the can, and it's quality stuff, also Alsa makes different colors, and you can also get most auto paint supply places to put mixed, or stock colors in rattelcans.

Also, check into the Spraymax 2K clear to topcoat. Great product and gas resistant. Nothing would suck more than to spend weeks prepping and painting a tank, only to see it run off onto the gas station concrete after a spill.

Sixball

How do you get house of kolors in spray cans? I would love to go that route.

What grit paper should I use to sand bondo. I just got another look at the coat on it and its pretty good do I need to strip it for best results?

There only two small dents one is pictured and the other is about 3 inches down from the gas cap

If I need to strip the paint what is the best way? sand? paint thinner?

sixball
01-02-2013, 1:15 PM
How do you get house of kolors in spray cans? I would love to go that route.

What grit paper should I use to sand bondo. I just got another look at the coat on it and its pretty good do I need to strip it for best results?

There only two small dents one is pictured and the other is about 3 inches down from the gas cap

If I need to strip the paint what is the best way? sand? paint thinner?


stevensonspaint.com has some HOK rattelcans, thats the first hit I had on Google.

If your going to put time into a paint job, your better off stripping all the way to bare metal so you know you won't have any reactions. You don't know what the PO used before you.

Knock the bondo off with 180 to 220

Wetsand with 400 and 600

To strip, use some aircraft remover and some mild steel wool and make sure you sand uniform with some 320 after the strip and steel wool.

Sixball

Abeblinkin
01-02-2013, 3:07 PM
Search "Preval" I have used them in the past with great results and you can put just about any paint in them. Ive since graduated to a gun but sometimes its just easier to use the Preval sprayer because you don't have as much cleanup. I have used hok in them.
I'd definitely strip first as others said and the aircraft stripper that sixball mentioned is the only one worth a damn.

seatraveler
01-02-2013, 4:08 PM
Just got done stripping it with some 150, didnt use any paint remover and didnt want to spend the $$ on an angle grinder.

A few small dings that need bondo.

Thanks for all the help guys

OhioFlameThrower
01-02-2013, 7:26 PM
Just got done stripping it with some 150, didnt use any paint remover and didnt want to spend the $$ on an angle grinder.

A few small dings that need bondo.

Thanks for all the help guys

Damn, you do nice work with that 150-grit plus elbow grease! Do the body work, sand with 220-grit followed by 400-grit. Wipe it down thoroughly with a pre-cleaner. Prime with a good rattlecan primer and wet-sand the primer with 600-grit. That will have it ready for basecoat... I recently purchased a pint of HOK "Hot Pink" (do NOT ask what it's for - lol) from that "stevenson's" eBay store and noticed they have rattlecans of HOK. A rattlecan of SprayMax 2K on top will give you quality UV protection and gasoline protection.

You are heading down a good path!

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

ARBY
01-02-2013, 7:56 PM
I don't use self-etching primer unless I'm priming over something like scoth-brited chrome or stanless steel, but any good primer will work. I prefer Dupli-Color.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

OK, please expound a bit on that. I've used the self etching primer on several occasions over bare metal. What is the down side for use on surfaces other than what you stated?

seatraveler
01-02-2013, 8:33 PM
Thanks FlameThrower

As of now stevensons looks good I want to call them and see if they can get more of their neon blue in stock.

Any specific temperature the tank and bondo should be? It was 32 today in Seattle:banghead:


Damn, you do nice work with that 150-grit plus elbow grease! Do the body work, sand with 220-grit followed by 400-grit. Wipe it down thoroughly with a pre-cleaner. Prime with a good rattlecan primer and wet-sand the primer with 600-grit. That will have it ready for basecoat... I recently purchased a pint of HOK "Hot Pink" (do NOT ask what it's for - lol) from that "stevenson's" eBay store and noticed they have rattlecans of HOK. A rattlecan of SprayMax 2K on top will give you quality UV protection and gasoline protection.

You are heading down a good path!

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

JakesCustoms
01-02-2013, 8:40 PM
First off. Blast the tank to bare metal first. For primer you can actually three ways. You can use self etch primer,epoxy primer or a good dtm primer. If you want it to last buy good products. You can go to a local paint supplier and they will point you in a good direction for primer. I use epoxy or dtm primer. There is nothing wrong with self etch primer to start with they use to use that along time ago. You can even get good products in a can also. You either do all your bodywork first then prime it. Or put on self etch that flash for the right amount of time then shoot your high build primer. Let that dry and sand it down to find all your high and low spots then do bodywork. There is ton of options you can do. If you need anything call me at 708-269-4621.

OhioFlameThrower
01-02-2013, 11:38 PM
OK, please expound a bit on that. I've used the self etching primer on several occasions over bare metal. What is the down side for use on surfaces other than what you stated?



IMO, self-etching primer is unnecessary over nice clean, freshly DA'ed or sandblasted metal. Of course, 95% of the primer that I shoot are 2-part epoxy, which sprays on like freakin' liquid bondo... three coats of that shit and I can sand out scratches or even light shallow spots! Self-etching primers that I've used have little or no "build" properties... which sorta sucks ass after you've become accustomed to hi-build epoxy primers. Dupli-Color also makes a hi-build rattlecan primer... I've used it on small pieces and liked it really well.

However, if I need to paint over ANY less receptive metallic surface... scuffed chrome, stainless steel, raw aluminum... then I always bust out the self-etching primer. These are typically small parts so I just use Dupli-Color rattle-can self-etching primer and had great success.

Just my opinion... these processes have served me well over the past several years.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

choadpanther
01-03-2013, 12:30 AM
Of course, 95% of the primer that I shoot are 2-part epoxy, which sprays on like freakin' liquid bondo... three coats of that shit and I can sand out scratches or even light shallow spots!

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

Which brand 2-part epoxy primer do you use, HOK's stuff?

OhioFlameThrower
01-03-2013, 12:52 AM
Which brand 2-part epoxy primer do you use, HOK's stuff?

I spent year using TranStar Euro primer... very happy with it. But within the past year I switched to HOK KD3000 epoxy primer and I really like it a lot.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

seatraveler
01-05-2013, 12:01 AM
Got down to the bondo today. Ive been swamped a bit at work.

Also cant seem to find HOK neon blue in a spray can, I have heard of places that can create any paint code for you in a can, is that a thing?

How many coats of primer should I throw on, most likely use the high fill duplicolor.

Stoked to get painting! :clap for you:

ARBY
01-05-2013, 6:22 AM
Just my opinion... these processes have served me well over the past several years.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

And your opinion is valued which is why I asked. Thanks for the clairification Brudda.

sixball
01-05-2013, 11:01 AM
Got down to the bondo today. Ive been swamped a bit at work.

Also cant seem to find HOK neon blue in a spray can, I have heard of places that can create any paint code for you in a can, is that a thing?

How many coats of primer should I throw on, most likely use the high fill duplicolor.

Stoked to get painting! :clap for you:

Most paint supply shops can and will put any color in a can, you'll just have to call and ask your local shops. Eastwood also makes a refillable can you can put your color in if the paint shop won't put it in cans, but you'll have to thin it yourself.

As far as the primer, it depends..... You want good coverage, your bondo will soak up alot, and you might see some tiny air holes in the bodo after primer. Wetsand smooth with 400, and remember the prep wipes. A tack cloth or two is also a good idea, dust is everywhere.

Sixball

MeanBean
01-05-2013, 11:42 AM
Definitely keep us posted with some pics. I started on my tank over the summer. I scuffed up the existing paint and hit the dings and low spots with some filler. I used about 7 coats of duplicolor high fill sandable primer. That's how she still sits. Glad to know I did things right!

I was also gonna rattle can it, then looked into the preval system, (its fairly cheap and can produce good results, check YouTube) but since then I bought a compressor and a couple HF paint guns.

FYI, my local Oreilly's can color match paint. You could try that testors paint on a small piece and take it somewhere to be matched. That way you could get quality paint in the color you want. And if you choose the rattle can route, they can fill rattle cans with your paint color for about $20 per can.

seatraveler
01-06-2013, 7:31 PM
So I finished priming and wetsand today. Doesnt look to even but feels good.

The duplicolor high build works great I had a small nick that was down to bare metal that ended up being covered nicely and a few spots that were on the border of being runs that smoothed out before everything was dry.

My next question is what is the best way to prevent build marks when i peel the masking tape? Do I need to lay down a color, clear coat it then tape?

OhioFlameThrower
01-06-2013, 10:33 PM
Paint the color, couple coats of clear, do your tape-outs and masking, paint the next color, couple coats of clearcoat, remove the tape & masking, lightly wet-sand the clearcoat and knock down the "edges" where the paint & clearcoat were against the edge of the tape.

Continue to repeat this process until complete.

Good luck with it, man. The primer looks solid.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

seatraveler
01-08-2013, 1:17 PM
It looks like Ill have to

shoot white, clear, then tape

shoot blue, clear, then tape

shoot final black, then peel tape and clear

Im a little worried the tape will pull some paint off with it from the white and blue layers. Is there any tape you guys prefer over another?

OhioFlameThrower
01-09-2013, 8:40 AM
Ahhh yes... the fear of then tape pul;ling off the paint. It is omnipresent for custom painters! Just gotta trust it because the paint almost never pulls off if you use a good quality auto body tape. I use the 3M "green" series and it works very well.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

JukeJointGypsy
01-09-2013, 9:15 AM
Make sure you have plenty of flash time between the clear and the next base. The solvents in the paint will sometimes react with the clear if it hasn't cured completely.

seatraveler
01-27-2013, 2:11 AM
So I just got my HOK rattle cans in. Hopefully I will be painting in the morning.

After I lay down my first color do I need to wetsand? Or should I wait until final clear to wetsand?

OhioFlameThrower
01-27-2013, 3:27 PM
So I just got my HOK rattle cans in. Hopefully I will be painting in the morning.

After I lay down my first color do I need to wetsand? Or should I wait until final clear to wetsand?


DO NOT WET-SAND ANY COLORS!!!! Only wet-sand clearcoats. May the force of Jon Kosmoski be with you.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

seatraveler
02-05-2013, 11:03 PM
I wetsanded my primer with 1000, will it give my paint enough to stick to? :confused:

OhioFlameThrower
02-05-2013, 11:12 PM
I wetsanded my primer with 1000, will it give my paint enough to stick to? :confused:

That is a little smooth for wet-sanding primer, but I've done likewise before. Just be sure to keep your first coat of basecoat kind of thin/dry so it does not try to "slide" off and cause sags/runs.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

speedandnoise
02-06-2013, 3:20 PM
Aaand why would one not want to wet sand color coats before clear?

I'm asking because I've been doing it and have been having some random issues.

Badassbrutus
02-07-2013, 6:17 AM
Because it removes the color coat and dont give much material for the clear to bite into so to speak.
You can lay a coat of clear on top of the color then a lite wetsand the add more clear.Also some colors when you sand them they change color.Add color let dry completely then Tack rag off dust and such then Clear.

speedandnoise
02-07-2013, 6:36 AM
So you don't sand everything down once the colors are all laid and dry- in prep for final clear? How about color on top of another coat? Is there a chance of it not sticking if you don't sand in between coats?

Badassbrutus
02-07-2013, 9:32 AM
No sanding of the color coats at all.You can apply another color on top of a color again no sanding the color coats will lets say melt together.If you sand the color coats you make the color thin and again there will be not much of a biting surface for the clear.Which in turn causes a Delamination.which means the clear has a high chance of peeling off down the road.Only time you would sand a color coat is to remove defects and to blend paints also might have to dust it again.
Never in my 29yrs of painting has a clear never adhered to a color coat from not sanding the color coats.
Id be happy to answer any Qs that I possibly can to my Knowledge for ya I can pm you my # if ya need it.
Shit If I can help ya fix your Trump and ride with ya on the GR I think you can have my # and pick my brain if needed...lol

sixball
02-07-2013, 9:42 AM
If you have a run, orange peel, dust spec, or any other imperfection in the color coat you definetly wetsand the color. Also when you are taping off flames, scallops or a transition of color you want to wetsand to take the "edge" off where the two colors meet. Now this is not an agressive wetsand. DO NOT stay on the piece long at all. Keep the water flowing as you sand. Now thats for a job you have multiple colors (flames,scallops,taped edges)

For a one color job. I lay some color coats with flash time in between. Lay a thicker coat, let dry, wetsand that one, and then lay a final coat. When I say final, it's final when you look around and there are NO imperfections. When that is on and you are satisfied, then shoot your clear on that tacky coat. Then let flash in between afew coats of clear. You can wetsand after dry in between afew coats. Then the same as color. Wetsand the imperfections out and lay your FINAL coat on alittle thicker. Again, it's not FINAL until you are satisfied all the imperfections are out. After it dries depending on the material you used, you can then wetsand (1500-2000) and polish.

Sixball

seatraveler
02-07-2013, 1:28 PM
how long are we letting the coats dry? I just laid down my first base coat.

also Im going to have some tape lines/build lines, is this just a quick hit with like 1000 grit to knock them down?

Akamm47
02-07-2013, 2:02 PM
A lot of good info here. Looking forward to how this turns out. I'm thinking about getting some of that HOK paint. What rattle can clear are you using?

OhioFlameThrower
02-07-2013, 2:22 PM
how long are we letting the coats dry? I just laid down my first base coat.

also Im going to have some tape lines/build lines, is this just a quick hit with like 1000 grit to knock them down?

Allow it to cure until it is not tacky to the touch AT ALL. If your basecoat is solid color, you can CAREFULLY wet-sand to break the tape line. The reason that I never, ever wet-sand basecoat is that, besides base white or base black, all the basecoats that I shoot are metallic or pearls and we-sanding them at all totally fucks 'em up for color or appearance. Base white or black are the only basecoats tjhat I would ever wet-sand.

Looking forward to seeing some results, man!!!!

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

seatraveler
02-07-2013, 3:14 PM
So i laid down the first coat (white) and it didnt look to smooth, i laid down pearl after that and it smoothed out a bit.

Question is should i wetsand the pearl off to smooth out the white or will it all smooth out when i wetsand the final clear?

Evidence
02-07-2013, 3:18 PM
So i laid down the first coat (white) and it didnt look to smooth, i laid down pearl after that and it smoothed out a bit.

Question is should i wetsand the pearl off to smooth out the white or will it all smooth out when i wetsand the final clear?I would wet sand as you go, with every coat. Just use a super fine sand paper and dont put a ton of elbow grease into it...the majority of your shine is going to come from the clear, but you still want your under coats to be as smooth and nice as possible so the clear sits nicely on top of it.

OhioFlameThrower
02-07-2013, 3:26 PM
So i laid down the first coat (white) and it didnt look to smooth, i laid down pearl after that and it smoothed out a bit.

Question is should i wetsand the pearl off to smooth out the white or will it all smooth out when i wetsand the final clear?


The clearcoat chemically melts the basecoats... in reality it's not super-critical whether they are exceptionally smooth because you're gonna wet-sand the top clearcoat. Wet-sanding the basecoats flat will help, but typically wet-sanding (even lightly) metallic or pearl basecoats will negatively alter their appearance.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com

Badassbrutus
02-07-2013, 6:34 PM
+1 ^^^^^

seatraveler
02-08-2013, 11:37 PM
figured I owed to it the thread to show a photo of the tank.

The white came out silver and the blue came out dark blue not light blue.

This is about halfway through and the colors just were not making the grade, so i pulled the plug. Not sure if they were mixed poorly or what.

Anyway kinda bummed but it was a good lesson, everything to this point went well. Prep, taping, etc.

I would not recommend HOK out of spray cans. Live and learn.

Badassbrutus
02-09-2013, 6:58 AM
Great first try man Do not give up.The Primer color undertones set the stage of the top coat colors.
Light color primers make your colors lighter and dark color primers make them darker.See what im saying .
you also couldve spray it all a plain jane white for a undertone let dry the apply your top colors ...Hope this helps ya.

seatraveler
02-09-2013, 10:06 AM
Thats the thing I sprayed plain white over the primer... not sure where I missed

sixball
02-10-2013, 10:21 AM
I feel bad since I suggested the HOK in cans originally. White over a light gray primer is fine. Now I wouldn't try the white over a black or red primer, but light gray should be fine. HOK is quality paint, so it shouldn't have had any coverage issues. It's possible you got some bad stuff though. When paint is shipped (depending on where it came from and where it went) it COULD sit outside or in a cold warehouse and casue some issues. I've never had those issues, but it is possible.

Do you have a local paint store that can put paint in spray cans? Caddilac makes a nice pearl white I have used several times. I use the early code from the 93 Eldo I believe. You can always look into the Eastood re-fillable can, and the prevall that was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I don't think the color situation you had was primer related though. Maybe the color you saw online wasn't the same as on the metal? It's hard to take a color swatch from the screeen to match the actual color. I'd try to get something from a local shop where you can see the actual color, or if you search the net for an actual painted car or bike with HOK , then you will get a better idea of the finished product on metal,

Sixball

seatraveler
02-10-2013, 12:19 PM
The cold weather may be the deal, I live in Seattle so it generally around 35 - 40 degrees at night.

I will have to look for colors. The cadillac white sounds good mixed with the new mustang blue may be a good combo.