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SouthBayBobber
12-07-2012, 8:16 PM
Hey 33'rs. Found a dude selling a '91 sporty frame with numbers but just bill of sale. Did a vin check and the title good and is non salvaged but has like $600 in back fees. I'm cool with a ground up build but my question is if I got the frame and bill of sale and go to DMV, do I have to pay these back fees? And what if I register it as non-op...does that clear the back fees or no? Any help would be appreciated

BigOscar
12-07-2012, 9:22 PM
My experience has been
Yes the back fees are your responsibility.
and if the motor and frame are going to be different vin numbers, that will make it special construction and not a Harley

Allen
12-08-2012, 10:30 AM
http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23426&highlight=west+angeles

You should talk to some of the people in this thread. It might enable those back fee's to evaporate....

Torch
12-08-2012, 10:44 AM
My experience has been
Yes the back fees are your responsibility.
and if the motor and frame are going to be different vin numbers, that will make it special construction and not a Harley

Nope.

You can put a Chevy V8 in that frame and as long as it's a Harley frame it's gonna be registered as a Harley Davidson.

There is no such law that says the engine and frame numbers have to match.

BigOscar
12-08-2012, 11:09 AM
Like I said, "My Experience has been"

Depends on the CHP officer, Depends on the DMV

TravisLongBeach
12-08-2012, 11:35 AM
Its california dude.....your gonna get fucked...of course you will have to pay the back fees

and why dont you buy my frame when I get a new one

SouthBayBobber
12-08-2012, 5:37 PM
Its california dude.....your gonna get fucked...of course you will have to pay the back fees

and why dont you buy my frame when I get a new one

Cause unless you go special construction I'm gonna need the title

Andy
12-08-2012, 6:13 PM
Found a dude selling a '91 sporty frame with numbers but just bill of sale.

What did the seller do with the title, you should ask him that first.

Torch
12-08-2012, 8:28 PM
Like I said, "My Experience has been"

Depends on the CHP officer, Depends on the DMV

Wrong the written law is the law, no CHP or DMV employee can make up his own laws....sometimes you need to correct an official when they are wrong.

so you are saying if you blow up a motor on your Honda and replace it with a new motor from Honda you no longer own a Honda.......
ok wait.... Honda is a bad example because their numbers never match.

so you think if I blow up my Harley I and buy a motor form a wrecked Harley , I now own a SPCN ...and not a Harley...you are wrong. the vehicle is always registered as to what the frame is.

an engine replacement can not change the make of the vehicle.

We offer a CHP VIN Verification and other registration services at my shop and I register about 2 or 3 bikes every month.

but as for the back fees you may be stuck with them, if you wait long enough they will go after the registered owner and attach his tax return or prevent him from renewing his license .....there are some ways around the fees, but you need to file a mechanics lien with a lien date prior to the expiration date.

Andy
12-09-2012, 7:39 AM
so you think if I blow up my Harley I and buy a motor form a wrecked Harley , I now own a SPCN ...and not a Harley...you are wrong. the vehicle is always registered as to what the frame is.

an engine replacement can not change the make of the vehicle.

but as for the back fees you may be stuck with them, if you wait long enough they will go after the registered owner and attach his tax return or prevent him from renewing his license .....there are some ways around the fees, but you need to file a mechanics lien with a lien date prior to the expiration date.

Tony is right, for 1970 and up Harleys, they're looking at frame numbers. You can put any engine (as long as it's not hot) into a 1970 and up titled Harley and it stays titled as such.

Sucks about the back fees, but that's something you have to keep in mind.

I still want to know what the seller of the frame did with the title?

Torch
12-09-2012, 10:28 AM
I still want to know what the seller of the frame did with the title?[/QUOTE]

...DMV don't give a shit about that piece of paper all they want now is the fees they are owed.....

I buy bikes, frames, engines without titles all the time.
If it's a good deal,..I'll buy it, screw the title. a bill of sale with the lost title story on it is all you need.

It is real easy to register bikes without titles as long especially if they are "off record" and don't show up on a stolen list
it's actually cheaper and easier than getting some old out of date title signed by a guy that sold it to a guy that died that gave it to a drug dealer and now you need a signature from every one of those guys.

many times I get a bike with paperwork like this and I throw it all in the trash, and go into DMV and tell them....I've had the bike in my garage and I lost the title. that way I am the only one that needs to sign any form, and I had control of the bike and there is no back fees.

Andy
12-09-2012, 11:19 AM
I still want to know what the seller of the frame did with the title?

...DMV don't give a shit about that piece of paper all they want now is the fees they are owed.....

[/QUOTE]

What about this scenario, the seller is selling the frame without a title because he took out the motor and kept it with the title. He could have put that motor/title (not legit for 1970 and up) into another frame and now he wants to sell the oem frame without a title because he's using it.

SouthBayBobber
12-09-2012, 11:53 AM
The guy selling it owns a auto yard. No idea if he even had the title. Most of these guys just strip bikes down and sell all the shit off. I already did a vin check and it's not stolen and not salvaged. But that's all they can tell me over the phone cause I'm not the registered owner. It does have the back fees but again, they wouldn't tell me when the last time it was registered.

TravisLongBeach
12-09-2012, 12:22 PM
OK so what if I have a running, titled 1998 sporty and I take the motor out and put it in a Kraftek frame. Then I go sell the stock frame, do I need the title for the motor or can I give it to the guy who buys the frame?

Andy
12-09-2012, 1:31 PM
The guy selling it owns a auto yard. No idea if he even had the title. Most of these guys just strip bikes down and sell all the shit off. I already did a vin check and it's not stolen and not salvaged. But that's all they can tell me over the phone cause I'm not the registered owner. It does have the back fees but again, they wouldn't tell me when the last time it was registered.


I guess I'm just paranoid in thinking that someone could have taken the engine and used the title. Would a vin check tell you if it's registered? Could be in another state? I guess without the history of the rest of the bike, then you have to wonder? At least I would. Hell you can find early '90's sportsters all day long for cheap. Why not buy a complete bike and do what you want with it?

Andy
12-09-2012, 1:33 PM
OK so what if I have a running, titled 1998 sporty and I take the motor out and put it in a Kraftek frame. Then I go sell the stock frame, do I need the title for the motor or can I give it to the guy who buys the frame?

Title stays with frame for any 1970 and later Harley.

Once you take your motor out of the '98 and put it into a Kraftek frame, then you have to apply for a special construction ttile based on the serial number on the new frame and the supplied mso.

Torch
12-09-2012, 5:31 PM
...DMV don't give a shit about that piece of paper all they want now is the fees they are owed.....



What about this scenario, the seller is selling the frame without a title because he took out the motor and kept it with the title. He could have put that motor/title (not legit for 1970 and up) into another frame and now he wants to sell the oem frame without a title because he's using it.[/QUOTE]

Having a motor and a title means nothing for a bike made after 1969, the title goes with the frame on all H/D's built after 1969, The engine numbers don't mean shit to the VIN (frame ) numbers on a title of any bike made after 69.
so by him keeping that title is not going to do him any good for him unless he is planning on stamping those frame numbers on another frame, (which has a bunch of legal issues all by itself ). having a frame without a title is fine as long as there is no other frame using those frame numbers
. Basically the first guy to register those frame numbers on a frame is the winner.

Torch
12-09-2012, 5:34 PM
there are plenty of good cheap Sporty's out there just save up a little more money and buy one.
In my opinion....you are buying a money pit with back fees on an empty frame...

TravisLongBeach
12-09-2012, 6:41 PM
Title stays with frame for any 1970 and later Harley.

Once you take your motor out of the '98 and put it into a Kraftek frame, then you have to apply for a special construction ttile based on the serial number on the new frame and the supplied mso.

and is that a bitch in CA? reason I ask is because Im trying to decide on a hard tail for my frame or a whole new frame. Of course the kraftek dudes say its a walk in the park, plus southbaybobber may want my old frame, and I can recoup some of the cost of buying a whole new frame

Torch
12-10-2012, 11:26 AM
bottom line....

1. Harley frame with good numbers makes it a Harley motorcycle, bill of sale is fine, the title is not necessary in the purchase.

2. Aftermarket frame makes it a SPCN (special construction) motorcycle, bill of sale is fine and the MSO is not necessary in the purchase.

Andy
12-10-2012, 2:15 PM
and is that a bitch in CA? reason I ask is because Im trying to decide on a hard tail for my frame or a whole new frame. Of course the kraftek dudes say its a walk in the park, plus southbaybobber may want my old frame, and I can recoup some of the cost of buying a whole new frame


It's a bitch in every state, that's just the way it is.

Definately go the hard tail route, nothing changes with your title and you'll have a bike that is still a Harley. The numbers will match and it's better for resale and insurance.

TravisLongBeach
12-10-2012, 5:58 PM
It's a bitch in every state, that's just the way it is.

Definately go the hard tail route, nothing changes with your title and you'll have a bike that is still a Harley. The numbers will match and it's better for resale and insurance.

Done. Thanks, probably going with elswick

BigOscar
12-12-2012, 4:15 PM
So im in the process now of trying to register a 79FX
I had a bill of sale from the owner
(It has been sitting in there backyard for at least 10 years)
I go to DMV with my license plate and bill of sale.
They take everything and give me an appointment to go see CHP?
WTF?

Torch
12-12-2012, 10:45 PM
So im in the process now of trying to register a 79FX
I had a bill of sale from the owner
(It has been sitting in there backyard for at least 10 years)
I go to DMV with my license plate and bill of sale.
They take everything and give me an appointment to go see CHP?
WTF?

yup, it's "out of the system" after about 5 years of no registration activity and it's the same as if the bike never existed.

that is why I tell people you don't need a title on a out of system bike cuz you need to start over on the whole title procedure, Starting with a CHP Vin inspection.

A title and a license plate on an old bike is just a waste of time, all DMV cares about is that "Bill of Sale" so they can charge sales tax on the stated price of the vehicle.
DMV is going to give you a brand new title and plate.

derelick
12-14-2012, 12:20 PM
I was in the middle of buying a HD shovel frame with a BOS but without a title from another cc member on Tuesday but wanted to check with the CA DMV and make sure that I could use the frame for a new build. I went to the San Clemente DMV office and was told straight up that I could not use the frame without a title.

Torch
12-15-2012, 6:21 AM
And I tell you straight up..... you have no fucking clue what you are doing,

your first mistake, you went to DMV, your 2nd mistake, you asked DMV a really stupid question...

any time you ...ASK ....DMV a question...all they hear is... "I'm here to get fucked in the ass, please !!"

If you ask 4 different DMV people the same question, you will get fucked 4 different ways...

I buy and register no title frames, bikes, and motors all the time,

Two weeks ago a guy pulls up to the shop with an old bike in the back of a truck with no paperwork at all, not even a Bill of Sale, I bought it, registered it, and the title printed in my name came from DMV in the mail today.

here is what you do.....take that frame to CHP.....not DMV !!!.
have CHP check it to see if it's stolen, if it is stolen they'll take it, if it aint
then build a complete bike and bring it to me and I have it titled in your name. (for a fee :) )

derelick
12-18-2012, 7:15 PM
And I tell you straight up..... you have no fucking clue what you are doing,

your first mistake, you went to DMV, your 2nd mistake, you asked DMV a really stupid question...

any time you ...ASK ....DMV a question...all they hear is... "I'm here to get fucked in the ass, please !!"

If you ask 4 different DMV people the same question, you will get fucked 4 different ways...

I buy and register no title frames, bikes, and motors all the time,

Two weeks ago a guy pulls up to the shop with an old bike in the back of a truck with no paperwork at all, not even a Bill of Sale, I bought it, registered it, and the title printed in my name came from DMV in the mail today.

here is what you do.....take that frame to CHP.....not DMV !!!.
have CHP check it to see if it's stolen, if it is stolen they'll take it, if it aint
then build a complete bike and bring it to me and I have it titled in your name. (for a fee :) )

I could've done without the "i'm here to get fucked in the ass" reference but thats ok. I'll take your advice and see you in 6 months when I'm ready to get it titled, thanks.