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billdozer
12-06-2012, 12:34 AM
This year on the Gypsy Run there were a few crashes. I was never the first guy on the scene, but a corner or two back. In a pack, it can turn into a cluster fuck pretty quick with most people gawking and a few taking charge. I've got basic old school military training on first aid, but wonder what real-world experienced first-responder type people might share about this situation. I'd like to get input from some pros, and then distill it down into something memorable so other riders can remember what to do in these situations. Of course everything the military wants you to learn is encapsulated into an acronym, so it would make sense to make it short enough that a mnemonic device that is easy to remember could be used under pressure.

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My personal plan is something along these lines:

Avoid more danger. ie: stop traffic or if other people are around, direct them to block traffic in each direction to avoid more trouble. Direct nearest person to call 911.

Assess the rider/situation. ie: move bike/car off rider if possible to do without causing further damage to rider, note obvious trama, triage life threatening injuries.

Triage: Make sure airway is clear, talk to them if conscious. If not, physically check airway, remove blockage or roll on side to avoid them choking, etc. Determine if they are breathing . Perform rescue breathing if needed. Next, stop the bleeding according to severity. I wouldn't worry much about abrasions at this point, that's all going to cleaned up by pros but I would worry about compound fractures and amputations or other large wounds that could lead to massive blood loss. I don't think I'd splint a fracture on the side of the road if it looked like help was coming soon, but maybe if it looked like we should move him?

Treat for shock. Elevate feet if possible, or move to seated position if more comfortable, depending on injuries. Loosen restrictive clothing. Engage in conversation to calm and assess level of shock/injury. No water. Move to shade/shelter if possible depending on terrain, condition, weather.

Wait for help: If it's not life threatening, get the rider out of the road and to a safer place: shoulder, truck bed, gas station, etc. If moved from site, alert first responders to location. Bandage larger wounds, continue to treat for shock. If no help is available, decide on the most comfortable way to transport the rider without hurting them further and task someone who's not actively helping with finding the route to the nearest aid.

Help the help: Have rider's ID ready, know the time since the crash and be able to describe what you've learned while dealing with the rider once the pros get there.

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Obviously this plan is lacking in clarity and knowledge so let me know what I've got wrong or missed. Also, what about motorcycle specific things like removing or loosening a helmet? Under what conditions is that OK? How do you check for internal bleeding or can you do anything but poke and prod, look for obvious swelling, etc? What say you?

rus
12-06-2012, 1:18 AM
good fucking thread.

i got an EMT license but it was 7 years ago or so, so my memory is a little foggy...

if it's serious enough to call 911, DO NOT remove their helmet. one of the major things they stress for first responders is taking control of the c-spine (head, upper spine). if there is any chance of a neck injury, you're supposed to grab a hold of their head and neck and not let go until they can be put into a collar and immobilized on a board. this doesnt necessarily mean you need to do it everytime someone goes down, just pointing out how seriously the medical profession views it.

no need to make a splint unless you've got to transport someone in a vehicle. if they're just going to be laying and waiting, keeping their body immobilized is enough.

moving someone out of the street.
again, try to move the neck as absolutely little as possible. there are a couple different ways to move someone and im sure you tube has videos. they're hard to describe after a bunch of beers, but it's worth taking a few minutes and learning them. people are way fucking heavier than you realize and moving them is not easy.

there are a ton of acronyms in the EMT/paramedic field, the ones you'd be dealing with immediately are...
ABC
airway - if their breathing is obstructed for some reason, nothing else matters.
breathing - if it's not obstructed, are they breathing?
circulation - are they circulating blood (check for a pulse).

AVPU - deals with level of consciousness.
A- alert
V - responds to verbal stimulus
P - responds to pain stimulus (we were taught to run your knuckles down their breast bone very hard)
U - unresponsive.

a 911 operator is going to ask you all the questions. it's good to have the answers if possible.

medications -
if they're alert, it's good to know if they're on any medications. obviously more of an issue with older riders, but you never know whos on blood thinners or who might be diabetic, etc.

for internal bleeding or to assess injuries that they might not even notice, theres a set procedure of running your hands down the arms, chest, stomach, legs, and if you can get to it without moving them too much, the back. think of it like frisking but with a little more pressure. this really only works if they're responsive obviously.

if you notice external bleeding, best way to handle it is just with pressure. grab a t shirt/hat/glove put it on the wound and just apply constant pressure. hold it there till medics arrive. if there is a bone sticking out of the body you can try it, but they might freak the fuck out on you but it's worth a try. any punctures around the chest could mean damage to the lungs. if there are bubbles coming out with the blood, thats bad. definitely apply pressure and make note of that to 911.

CPR
if they're not breathing, you've got to do it for them. make sure the airway is clear then with one hand on top of the other, fingers locked together, press the shit out of their chest repeatedly about an inch beneath the nipple line. you no longer have to breath + compress, they've switched it up to just complression, because most laypeople just fucked the whole thing up and did more harm than good. compressions will keep blood flowing and thats better than nothing.

you can get EMT quick guides from any major bookstore or amazon. they're small enough to fit in your pocket and come in a bunch of different kinds, but im sure there is a first responder one that would be adequate for situations like this. might be worth picking up a couple for organizers on the runs so if something happens, you dont have to pull out your phone and try googling. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=emt+pocket+guide]amazon has a bunch (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=emt+pocket+guide)

sorry so many words. real good topic idea.

Flippy02
12-06-2012, 2:42 AM
Rus pretty much covered it all, there are other things to look at, never try to remove a helmet if neck or spinal injury is suspected, i can't stress that enough, if you get to them, don't be afraid to gently roll them onto their back, it keeps their body in natural alignment,, and gently tilt the chin up if no neck or spinal injury is suspected, this opens up the airway and allows for breathing, but this is only really needed if they are unconscious, if they have a broken leg, check for pulse on the opposite side of the break, to ensure circulation is still present. i wouldn't press on a fracture, but just cover it up to protect from dirt and such. never try to straighten out a fracture, try to splint in the position found, do not feed or give drinks to the person either just in case they need surgery, it would be no bueno

ShytHed
12-06-2012, 5:17 AM
I've been an EMT for about 5 years now and was planning on adding to this thread, but Bill and Rus really covered the big important details. Of course there are a lot of little things we could prattle on about but if you more or less follow what these guys say until help arrives the emergency crews will already be starting well ahead of what they expect to find when they get there.

billdozer
12-07-2012, 1:03 AM
Bump.

Any more input?

ThePete
12-07-2012, 11:44 AM
8408 Corosman here, big things are C-collar, back board and stuff to stop blood loss from killing the downed rider, airway adjuncts to keep them breathing and the means to quickly CasEvac (cell call to Life Flight). Splinting is good but the ABC's are most important along with maintaining a good core body temp.

The new abbreviation is P-MARCH-P in the civi world some won't directly translate but still may apply but here it goes:

P - Perfusion, stop major bleeds first. A femoral bleed will kill someone faster than no airway. You'll know if you have to worry about this almost immediately by the volume of blood everywhere. Be especially mindful if the casualty had extra layers that may hide this.

M - Move the patient out of the line of fire. We're not in a war zone but a fast moving Geo Metro can still fuck up your day. This is still important scene safety make sure you the aid rendering good Samaritan aren't going to get run over. Moving a guy may do little for C-spine considerations but keeps both your asses from becoming a hood ornament. Maybe its as simple as having bystanders up road signaling for people to slow down or whatever. Its a quick thing to do, give the looky-loos a job so they are occupied and out of your hair and keeping you safe.

A - Airway, no airway and its game over its that simple. Keep the hemet on if you can, most of us idiots on here still use an open face so the jaw lift is going to work as long as its still intact. A full face lid complicates things considerably but you can still pull the visor off and try your best to do what you can with what you have.

R - Respirations make sure the patient can still breath just because you shoved a piece of plastic down the guy's gullet doesn't mean he's breathing. A couple manly rescue breaths to make sure there is going to be air exchange if you gotta start CPR. If you do from there on out the chest compressions do the job for you but the airway still needs to be evaluated.

C - Circulation, Make sure the guy's heart hasn't stopped and now its time to look for other major bleeding assuming the arterial types that need immediate attention have been mitigated.

H - Heat, when a body goes into shock maintaing body heat can be a critical component for survival. I'm not expecting to have to strip someone down to do a head to toe assessment but sometimes thats already done for you by the asphalt and a space blanket or 2 weigh almost nothing.

P - Patient evacuation. Hopefully all this will take is a cell phone call and chances are its already been made but don't assume it has or you might be waiting in vain and for somethings that golden hour may not be all that important but for others that platinum 10 minutes could mean the difference between cognitive mental function and fruit salad. If there's a chase truck and no cell service it may be quicker to load the downed rider up and start driving. This is totally a judgement call but a decision you may have to make so a 3/4 piece of plywood cut up and assembled into a backboard may be a good thing to have tossed in a chase vehicle.

oysterjimmy
12-07-2012, 7:31 PM
Supporting Pete, massive bleeding is "now" more important than the airway.

BMdeckie
12-07-2012, 8:15 PM
I can't stress enough to ensure that you protect yourself when you are caring for others. Latex gloves and a mouth barrier are a must, some mouth barriers are small enough they are key chain sized which is good for us when space becomes an issue. There is plenty of nasty shit out there that can transfer through saliva and blood. And it's no fun going in for tests over and over again, especially if you have a spouse and kids.

Some other simple things to remember before you even begin:

Check- Ensure the scene is safe and your not walking into downed power lines or some other danerous shit.

Call- Make sure someone calls 911, if you are the only one do it yourself before you begin first aid/cpr,
every minute counts and sometimes paramedics are a long way out.

BigOscar
12-07-2012, 8:41 PM
Bill you pretty much covered it all.
One little thing.
DO NOT PERFORM STERNAL RUBS ON THE PATIENT TO DETERMINE THERE PAINFUL RESPONSE!!!
(Taking your knuckles and rubbing on the persons breast bone)


Stick to what you feel comfortable with.

The least you can do is stop and ask him how he is doing and does he need an ambulance

OldStfCycle
12-07-2012, 10:10 PM
Here's my input. drinking often causes a mess. so my first responce to avoid blood is this. You want a beer or two and I've rode with you many times and trust your judgment then fine but I get fed up with stopping every 40 minutes for a drink. Fuckin 3 hour ride should not take all day and I get sick of stopping all the time. lets ride and get smashed at our destination safe and sound. The reason I always end up there first ahead of the group and always tag with somebody I've rode with many times even if he is drinking at least I know what to expect from him (somewhat)

billdozer
12-07-2012, 11:04 PM
Agreed, OldStf 100%. Let's ride our asses off and then drink as much as we want. Oscar, why no sternal rub? Not that I've ever done it, just wonder why it's such a no-no? How 'bout a titty-twister?

BigOscar
12-07-2012, 11:11 PM
The reason no more sternal rub is that it isn't as accurate as a trapezius pinch
( Vulcan death grip)
and the possibility of causing more harm to the patient.



***A trapezius pinch is applied by grasping at least two inches of the trapezius muscle at the base of the neck between your thumb and index and middle finger. While squeezing the muscle, twist it, which will cause significant pain. Watch the patient’s face for a grimace and the hands’ and arms’ response for any attempt to remove the stimulus.

BigOscar
12-07-2012, 11:14 PM
The T-Twister is a bar in Messico.Be sure to leave before it gets dark.

Warejn
12-08-2012, 12:16 AM
I have been a firefighter/ EMT for the last 10 years. I gotta echo what everyone else has said.

Now, instead of ABC's, new protocols are EABC. Exsanguination- major blood loss, tourniquets are back and proven life savers. I have them in my pack at work and in my bag I carry all the time. Cheap, easy insurance. Airway- get it patent, of you have to manipulate the head, so be it. Breathing- yep, gotta have it. Nowadays , rescue breathing is out, chest compressions are in. That and if you give good breaths, there is a lot of puke that follows. Circulation,make sure there are pulses.

Don't over complicate trauma, air goes in and out, blood goes round and round, any deviation, you need to fix.

Flippy02
12-08-2012, 2:25 AM
if you find the patient unconscious, do a good set of CPR first and than call 911
if you saw him go down, call 911 and than do CPR if necessary.

Protecting Life is more important than protecting a limb, you don't wanna move him, but if you have no choice, do it gently

What the troops are doing now, is carrying a personal first aid kit for themselves in an easy to find and reach place that could be used on them if they go down,



what they are preaching now is CAB instead of ABC

Circulation

Airway

Breathing

now the new CPR standard is if you don't have any mouth protection, your legally allowed to do compression only.

one thing i always remember is,

stop the bleeading

start the breathing and

treat for shock

sorethumb
12-08-2012, 9:15 AM
Been a FF/Paramedic for 7 seven years now, and worked my share of motorcycle wrecks.

Good advice has already been given above.

I find that I most often use tourniquets, trauma dressings, large bore IVs or IOs, chest decompression needles and a medical helicopter to fly them to the nearest Level 1 trauma center.

If someone is in cardiac arrest from a traumatic event, you wont get them back. Traumatic arrests usually involve mechanical damage to the great vessels or the heart itself.

I keep a small trauma kit with me-in my truck-haven't thought about carrying one on the bike.

pilgrim
12-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Over in the UK we have been asked to put home telephone or that of the next of kin in your mobile phone under I.C.E easy for the emergency services of which Im proud to say my wife is a fully fledged Paramedic in. Just to scroll through and get the person YOU want to know that you are in a accident to get the call, simple but most of the best things are ride safe PIlgrim

nunez8853
12-08-2012, 10:36 AM
I say we get everyone on the cult to adopt that practice of have ICE or Emergency call like the fist listing on your contacts. cause when i ended up in my wreck in july the people that helped me called the last two people that I text one was my tio didnt answer and one was my girl friend in cail didnt answer the first time. when she finely answered she tryed calling my mom 6 times and she didnt answer, then my sister and she didnt answer, called my brother he got it up was in cali so that did no good.


So I am defiantly going to do that and what that you guys that are FF/FR say about carrying medical supplys with us while we ride. what do you suggest we have. cause again when I got hit, there were a few off duty FF that helped me out but didnt have the proper stuff to help as much as they could

list of supply's to carry

MIKE47
12-08-2012, 10:44 AM
Bill, this may be the single best thread/feature idea ever. I've been riding some kind of motorized 2 (3/4) wheelers for 30 years and have never had any EMT type training. Some insight to proper response in these situations would help us all to help our friends if shit get ugly.

That said, I've been first on many scenes over those years. I noticed the strongest skilled people will step up and immediately take control of the things that they know they can handle best and those without the skills or knowledge stand by at the ready to offer anything they can. I think what I'm getting at is that even the uneducated can offer some help so even if you don't know jack about EMT stuff you can help.


So if you'll hear my thoughts on what the masses can do:

Obviouslt the downed rider is the most important but I'm not going to attempt to give advice there. I do what I know if I have to, but I step asside when the right help is there. I'll do the same here.

1 call to 911 is enough. If you grab your phone to make the call make a loud and clear and announcement to the crowd that you are on it and that you made contact. And be sure to tell those near the injured that you are calling when you complete the call. Also if it's that bad they can maybe help with some medical advice so being near the injured during the call helps.

Know who else to call for advice. Knowing someone who's an EMT can help too. A call to a friend or family member with experience can be helpful.

Traffic needs to be slowed as soon as possible so you need to go up around the bend sometimes to get that done. Otherwise they come around the corner to a meeting of cycles and bodies, panic and swerve and more chaos ensues. And don't just stand there. Wave so they see you, give them the slow down arm wave, etc so they know there's danger ahead. Waving at an old lady when you look like Grizzly Adams on acid makes her go faster so try to convey the idea to the motorist.

If you have a first aid kit dont wait to be asked for it. This is why you packed that stuff. Your first aid kit will seldomly help you. It helps others and theirs helps you. Get it to the injured person as soon as you can.

Give the shirt off your back. Literally. If bandages are needed use what you have. You can get another shirt. In other words think outside the box for solutions.

The bike: If it's near the victim then get it moved. the EMT and help needs room to work. Other than that, it's already on the ground. The damage is done. It needs nothing. If it's still running well then turn it off. Other than that shut off the fuel and ignition and come back to it when there's time.

Last, if the rider goes to the hospital be sure they have their personal stuff at least. Wallet, phone (sorry Joe!), cash, house/ car keys and maybe their backpack (clothes) . There's a good chance they are far from home and it'll be days before they see a familiar face or you again, if ever. The towing company and police will take the rest. But get a towing company name or police department info or cards to get to the guy later. Most the time we have little clue as to where we are whan this stuff happens and the injured won't remember at all.

For the record most of this happens in about 30 seconds on a run with a decent number of people.

Warejn
12-08-2012, 10:57 AM
I forgot about ICE, it's very helpful for responding types, I have made a number of those call in the back of the rig if the dudes cell still works.

I have it in my phone

BigOscar
12-08-2012, 10:57 AM
I keep a kit with me in my personal vehicle and in my bag when im On a trip on the bike.
I made my own kit, I have no connections to the company, I just saw them on Ebay and thought it was pretty cool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220956827993?var=520069058922&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

61 Piece Platoon First Aid Kit with MOLLE Pouch by Elite First Aid FA181


I made my own, but this is a good start.

"EVERYONE SHOULD BE TRAINED IN BASIC FIRST AID AND CPR"

sorethumb
12-08-2012, 2:46 PM
This pack would be rideable: http://www.statpacks.com/products.php?grid=0&id=134

http://www.statpacks.com/product/134/L_G1_Traverse_-_Tactical_134_153.jpg

DeeBee
12-08-2012, 2:58 PM
Try to have 1 person in charge. This will hopefully keep things organized and get help/ care as efficiently as possible. I have seen evacs where 2-3 EMT's spend more time arguing or trying to do things their way than just getting the job done. Sometimes there is someone at the scene that is too emotional/ distraught and though it might seem rude, try to get them out of the way. Set up traffic control if you can, keeping in mind emergency vehicles/ personnel need access when they arrive. If you are caring for the patient, make sure you are calm and as reassuring as possible to keep the patient calm. As said before, if you need to move the patient make sure you are supporting C-spine, this might take some help. If you need to roll them over maintain c-spine support. These are just some things that can possibly help, by no means a "what to do list" in order or anything. Do yourself a favor and get some basic first aid training, and at least pack some latex (or similar) gloves/ minimal first aid kit when on the road. By the way, keep track of where you are, mile markers etc so you can relay this info to responders if you make the call.

rus
12-08-2012, 4:06 PM
its crazy how things change.
when i went through school they taught us that tourniquets were pretty much 'last resort' shit, and would probably result in loss of a limb if used.

Pete, warejn, sorethumb, etc..
you guys should distill all of this into a SIMPLE step by step layman's protocol for dealing with situations. something just about anyone could follow, even under pressure. bill could do a little write up, make a printable PDF. BOOM, we just collectively saved the word.

blackice02
12-08-2012, 4:12 PM
no major bike accidents, but have been around quite a few accidents, vehicular or work related (mostly work, which is easy to keep a serious mind frame). i've worked at sea on boats, and on pipelines. i've had numerous certifications in different safety courses, always maintained cpr/ first aid. quite appalled at how nimble the classes have become, but they still help.

Story:
over a year ago i hit a pedestrian in my excessively large truck, left turn at a light <20 mph, never saw him, he was in my pillar the whole time. the gentleman was ~65 years old. most of the impact was in his left side rib area, but when he hit the ground his head began to bleed (head wounds put out a lot of blood). he began to change colors obvious he was not getting air. me and all my training was useless due to shock. (couldn't fathom such a hit could take a man's life) had an off duty nurse and first responder show up on site to help, the nurse kept telling me he was gone. No one would help me help me move him to unblock airway, he was large and shock was overcoming me. 911 responder was also telling me to move him. I finally gave the phone to the nurse and once she heard from 911 to move him, i had 3 ppl willing to rotate him over.

moral of the story, if your in shock and others are around get them in charge (911 etc), and don't be scared to move someone, if they are not breathing, you will not be sued!

BigOscar
12-08-2012, 5:05 PM
The reason i chose the little rescue bag is that the red bag with the white cross on it makes it easily identifiable even if english is your second language and it stay with my gear. Who wants to be walking around with a purse.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/220956827993?var=520069058922&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/61-Piece-Platoon-First-Aid-Kit-with-MOLLE-Pouch-by-Elite-First-Aid-FA181-/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/$(KGrHqZ,!gwE8ML(5zcwBPPrQYkcGQ~~60_14.JPG

ThePete
12-08-2012, 5:52 PM
Here's something for all you Marines (maybe Army too?) any time you have to turn your shit into CIF or whatever new name they have for it all the gear in your IFAK (aid kit) is consumable so field strip that bitch, keep it for yourself or hand it over to your doc but DO NOT turn it in, all they do is toss it in the trash. It's not the best first aid kit in the world but EVERYTHING in it can be useful when the time is right and a great building block for starting to gather up your own aid kit to keep on the bike.

There is a class we Corpsmen teach to Marines about rendering buddy aid in the event we're not there or it's us that goes down called Combat Life Saver or CLS, there should be a PDF for this somewhere in my crap if not I can get one from one of the other guys and I will post it. Trust me when I say anyone can do it, we teach it to even the dullest of tools and they get it right.

I wouldn't expect everyone out here to be running around with bags of Hespan and large bore IV's because that shit can get you in trouble unless you're certified to treat someone with it. In the military I'm qualified to do some seriously invasive stuff but I wouldn't dare do any of that stuff unless its a last resort so some of the stuff can just be skipped over but things like how and where to use a tourniquet everyone should know. Most of it is common sense but you'd be surprised how quickly that can go out the window when it is your best friend that has gone down. So not just knowing but going through the motions a couple times a year can make all the difference when your physical memory kicks in as your thought processes go to shit.

Of course gloves, CPR masks etc are things you will want to have. I've been vaccinated against a lot of the nasty crap out there and I'm not ultra paranoid so I probably wouldn't think twice about not having some of the stuff in a pinch but if you have access to it use it.

MoK13
12-09-2012, 9:37 AM
How about a thread on how to deal with the aftermath . Ie police report, witnesses, at fault driver insurance, medical...etc. I got cut off on Thursday about 4pm, had to dump the bike. I only broke my left middle finger, sprained my right ankle, bumps and bruises. I have been shit sore and pissed off since. Lots of cosmetic tic on the bike, but I have not had a chance to assess it yet. I do know where and what to do for FL, but for the different states what others know would help.

ThePete
12-09-2012, 2:42 PM
Good idea, I've had a few scrapes and have a few things down pat. I'm not telling you this to pull some super lawsuit but because even if you think everything is cut and dry it never is. I got hit by a lumber truck and I know it was an accident and didn't want to fuck the guy driving or his family business over I just wanted my bike fixed/replaced and any out of pocket deductibles I had to pay for my medical coverage taken care of. I had a gentleman's agreement with the company's owner that he bailed on and tried to leave me with a couple thousand in bills etc and I ended up having to get a lawyer.

If its not you but your buddy you may be able to do some of this for them while they get hauled off in the whambulance.

1 - Unless its your fault or you're drunk/carrying/wanted get the cops involved no matter how small, start a paperwork trail.
2 - You may not remember who was there or who you talked with so get all the information you can from witnesses, their names numbers and their statement word for word. If the at fault party or your insurance try's to pull some shit you've got back up.
3 - Your cell phone has a camera, if it still works shoot a shit ton of shots 100's if you can you can go through and delete things later. Not just shots of your bike and their car but photos of where it happened and progressive shots of your injuries.
4 - If you need your bike towed DO NOT let the cops call for the wrecker, get your bike over to the side of the road and do roadside assistance pick up its at least 1/2 the cost or lower.
5 - Copies of ER reports and Dr's notes etc
6 - Do not sign the settlement to the repair shop put it in your bank and directly pay the shop if you're not doing the work yourself. I got "hooked up" through a buddy at work with his buddy's shop and I'm sure they ended up on the better end of things. Some insurances won't let you do this but if they will its the way I would do it. Most importantly know the guys working on your bike before giving it to them whenever possible. Not something I do since I turn my own wrenches whenever possible and the only time this is going to happen is when it's beyond my abilities and I really wanted a "pro's" eyes on rather than my own.
7 - Get back on a bike even if it's not yours ASAP. I'm not saying this is you but my wife waited too long and had "The Fear" after her first time going down and it took quite a bit till she was back on a bike again and even then she didn't get comfortable till she was on a completely different bike.

billdozer
12-09-2012, 8:59 PM
OK, to add to this thread: What would you pros suggest gets packed into a realistic trauma kit that fits on a bike?

ThePete
12-09-2012, 10:04 PM
Tourniquets(1-2), gloves (5 pair they have other uses too), CPR mask, airway adjuncts, compression bandages(2-3), cravats (2-3) (triangular bandages make great slings and tying limbs to make shift splints), if you know how to use it quik-clot (if you don't keep away from hemostatic agents), a C-collar if you can swing it. Cling wrap or stretchy THIN bandage roll (not to be confused with ACE Wraps), and a few varied size ACE wraps, band-aids, bacitracin or Neosporin, space blankets (1-2), Epi-pen if you are allergic to bees and a few rolls of medical tape.

The problem with asking us guys that do this kind of shit is we tend to go overboard, more is better to a point. I think I hit the basics, hemostatic agents are pushing it as is the air ways and C-collar (a couple 3" wide ACE Wraps on either side and some med tape works just as well just old school and may be better due to a helmet being in place)

A big tip is to arrange the stuff in a way that you can get at the most important stuff first, tourniquets, gloves and airway/CPR mask everything else is secondary to the absolute basics.

Flippy02
12-10-2012, 1:12 AM
There are a few of us who are EMT and Paramedics in so cal, who attend events regularly, I'm not gonna throw their names out, maybe they'll come forward, but for large events like Hazzard, or small events. Maybe we can compensate these guys somehow on rides, and have them ride in the back of the pack with a jump bag just in case shit happens. and if there is chase vehicles have them carry the supplies needed for the EMT or Medic. maybe free event admission, they'd only have to work long enough for the ambulance to arrive, transfer the patient, and continue with the event

ThePete
12-10-2012, 1:30 AM
That's what I've tried to do on the last couple rides I have gone on but it doesn't always work out so well staying in the back. We had a couple that kept having to really slow down for any right hand sweepers and even though I didn't mind too much But I think they thought I did so eventually I left them behind. I wasn't really worried that they were going to go down since they were dragging stuff pretty early and having to take it slow. Maybe the best plan is to be disbursed through the pack with one trailing and switching the rotation up a bit between gas stops. I always bring a fag bag even if its just a thigh rig with the bare minimum and the only thing I'd want compensation for would be replacing the stuff I used up but even that's not a big deal I feel like its just part of my responsibility since its a skill I bring to the table that others may need. Who knows maybe I'll need some roadside assistance for something my skill sets are severely lacking in, most guys unless its gonna take parts will lend a hand.

Flippy02
12-10-2012, 1:41 AM
i didn't think any major compensation, and maybe this is for a new thread, but something simple as free admission, and replenishment of supplies, but that might be hard if we were the only ones who could get them, maybe get a group together of four EMT's or paramedics, and a chase vehicle with a backboard, and a Ricky Rescue bag, that way we can get the patient packaged up and ready to go, just give a report and send them on their way. and just get the backboard later. but it would take somewhere between 2-4 for of us to successfully package up a patient and ready for fire, but thats my 2 cents. lets face it, in large groups, their is always the "one"

rustrocket84
12-11-2012, 1:27 PM
Just saw this thread. Some good points brought up. I've been a firefighter EMT for a long time and have seen more than my fair share of accidents on and off duty. I've tended to a few people on rides that have had the misfortune of going down.

I carry a small kit when I travel, but it is very small. Usually just gloves and a few different bandages/compresses.

The only thing that I don't carry with me is a one way device for rescue breathing. I've seen them used, and I've seen them fail. CPR's change to CAB instead of ABC's addresses this. Outside of my immediate family you will never see me put my lips around somebody else's mouth that has been hurt. Like previously stated the chance of somebody surviving a traumatic arrest is less likely than winning the lottery. Head injuries tend to lead to vomiting, and if you breathe into somebody's mouth enough, enough air is going to get into their stomach, at which time it will come out forcefully.

On a side note Pete the new combat application tourniquets are just getting to me at the fire station, and those things are awesome when needed. No more trying to find a pencil, or stick and having to cut Kerlix to fasten them down properly.