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View Full Version : HOW TO: Sporty EFI to Carb Conversion on a budget!!!!



gravitywerx
09-17-2012, 7:59 PM
alot of people interested in doing this and a few months ago i was one of them. after you get to a certain point on an efi, no matter what you do you still have a ton of wires etc that are just ugly. no way around it. i had my harness as bare as it gets and was just not happy with it. There is the option of the s&s carb kit and the ammp3 ignition for those of you that have about $1200 laying around. i did not so i did mine on a tight budget. i used the money from selling the parts on ebay i took off. my bike is an 07 883c. i did all the buying different parts and researching so you dont have to. here ya go. any questions just ask me.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1445.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1443.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1449.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1447.jpg
the first thing i did was take off the factory air cleaner and intake manifold and throttle body. sold it on egay for $200. this took me all of 10 minutes and i had never done it before. very easy. hang on to the flanges and dont put those on ebay, youll need them.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/3804551647934040_1.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1476.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1475.jpg

then i ordered a cv carb and a manifold. i ordered a few manifolds but the one that fit best was from an 04-06. harley part number 27023-99a. i tapped and plugged the whole for the mass air flow because you wont need it. you may choose to weld it up but cast aluminum doesnt weld very well. any oem harley cv carb should work. mine just happend to be from a 99 softtail. you will have to rejet more than likely. i relocated the choke cable


http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/downsize-7.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1487.jpg
then i got the mooneeyes air filter kit and breather bolts from the 33 classifeds.
then bolted it on. now remember that the manifold will need the flanges from the efi throttle body. use.


http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1488.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1499.jpg
on an 04 up sporty it uses a crank sensor and so because of this you have to use an aftermarket ignition module. the other option is to change out cams and cam covers from an 03 older but thats a ton of work and could get pricey. there is a ammp3 ignition from germany that is about $700 so i went with the tunderheart for less than half of that. there are pros and cons to both so do your research but both will work. the thunderheart comes with the module, coil, wires and software. very nice unit. i mounted mine next to my battery. and modified the mount i had on my factory coil.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1474.jpg
at this point i was probably going to reuse the efi tank and weld up the tank and put a bung in it for a petcock. but then i saw how much they sale for and decided to purchase another tank. i went with the throttle addiction skinny sporty tank and love it. best quality tank i have seen. i bought about 5 tanks and this one made the cut. you may also want to look into pingel. they make a petcock conversion for the efi fuel pump. but it is pricey and you can sale the fuel pump for what a new tank cost. up to you


then i wired it up using bare minimum. the ignition was a snap to wire. first bike i have ever wired and it was pretty easy.

here is a tally for parts...add it up if you like
intake manifold -ebay-$60
thunderhert ignition- $260 (amazon)
breather bolts $35 (fellow 33er)
moon eyes air filter kit- $35-lowbrow
throttle addiction tank-$219
i had tons of wire and the fittings and hose i used to plumb it laying around. but that stuff is not bad.

here is what i made on the parts on ebay to fund my project(this is how i have funded most of my bike and including the cost of the bike i have not hit $10,000 yet)

efi tank $250
fuel pump $175
throttle body and manifold $175
ecm and tuner $250
tsm $50


only factory thing i retained on the bike as far as electrical goes is the regulator. good luck with your builds.

mike

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1496.jpg

LargeThin
09-17-2012, 8:55 PM
Holy shit!
Thanks for the write up.
If my math is correct, you made $291 after everything.
That's so awesome.

Nosebleed
09-17-2012, 9:10 PM
Good stuff man. Did you sell your fuel pump to SINTAX? Man, there was another dude on here a few days ago that did the conversion but opted for the "spend $1,200" route. I bet he'll be pissed if he sees this.

Way to go for doin' it on the cheap, ChopCult style!

Saltytonk
09-17-2012, 9:28 PM
Good job! awesome write up!!!

Question .... when you went with the thunderheart ignition .... does it still use the crank sensor on the front of the cases? Or does it eliminate that?

thathinchguy
09-17-2012, 11:34 PM
Good stuff man. Did you sell your fuel pump to SINTAX? Man, there was another dude on here a few days ago that did the conversion but opted for the "spend $1,200" route. I bet he'll be pissed if he sees this.

Way to go for doin' it on the cheap, ChopCult style!

not pissed. the amm-p3 is really slick. has a 5 year warranty too!

Branner
09-18-2012, 7:56 AM
Gravity: Would this be possible to do on a 2010 Softail? My father-in-law wants to ditch the FI and go with carb and this would be a good project for him. Nice write up, thanks for posting.

slimpickins
09-18-2012, 12:53 PM
How much was the carb?

punkrod
09-18-2012, 2:40 PM
Good used CV carbs go for about $100 give or take about $50.

Great write up especailly about selling off the parts to buy what you need. I factor that into all my work.

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 3:15 PM
Good stuff man. Did you sell your fuel pump to SINTAX? Man, there was another dude on here a few days ago that did the conversion but opted for the "spend $1,200" route. I bet he'll be pissed if he sees this.

Way to go for doin' it on the cheap, ChopCult style!

yep. he bought it for his build

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 3:16 PM
Good job! awesome write up!!!

Question .... when you went with the thunderheart ignition .... does it still use the crank sensor on the front of the cases? Or does it eliminate that?

it uses the crank sensor. the ignition was super easy to work with and has two wires that run to the crank sensor wires on the bike

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 3:17 PM
Gravity: Would this be possible to do on a 2010 Softail? My father-in-law wants to ditch the FI and go with carb and this would be a good project for him. Nice write up, thanks for posting.

i am not a softail expert but there a way more people doing it to bigger bikes. google it

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 3:23 PM
How much was the carb?

crap...knew i missed something. i paid a 33er $60 for the carb. but that was a deal. plan on spending 110-200 for one. still cheaper than $1200

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 3:26 PM
not pissed. the amm-p3 is really slick. has a 5 year warranty too!

it is a good ignition. the tunderheart has a 3 yr warranty. also, if you have to use a warranty from germany, goodluck on that. i can almost buy 3 TH ignitions for $700 and to me the price difference and warranty made up my mind for me. one con to the TH ignition is it does require software to time the bike correctly and the ammp3 does not. to me, $700 was not in my budget. did lust after the ammp3 but this was on a budget...

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 7:39 PM
Holy shit!
Thanks for the write up.
If my math is correct, you made $291 after everything.
That's so awesome.

i forgot to add the price of the carb which can vary. and most people will have to buy wire, connectors etc but that stuff may cost you $50 on the high end.

also, i used the factory throttle cable. worked great.

gravitywerx
09-18-2012, 7:46 PM
had some messages fr a few more pictures. here is a shot of the manifold where i plugged the mass air flow sensor. i used red locktight. the other is how the coil is mounted. also , the vent on the carb is plugged off.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1504_zps7afb9f3f.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/gravitywerxmike/IMG_1503_zps6479d0c1.jpg

hf1200l
09-19-2012, 9:45 PM
Good thread you got there! I'm doing the same conversion soon on my 2010 1200L.. I got the manifold off a 2005 1200C, should work with my efi stock flange, right???

Nottso
09-20-2012, 1:47 PM
3 months ago, when I sent you that tuner for free, all I asked was that when your build "outgrew" it or if you couldn't use it you would hold onto it and pass it on to the next guy in need instead of selling it. And then you turned right around and sold it .

Shame on me for being a dumb fuck I guess.

Nosebleed
09-20-2012, 2:24 PM
Burn.

samsquamsh
09-20-2012, 4:28 PM
thanks for the write up

gravitywerx
09-20-2012, 5:35 PM
3 months ago, when I sent you that tuner for free, all I asked was that when your build "outgrew" it or if you couldn't use it you would hold onto it and pass it on to the next guy in need instead of selling it. And then you turned right around and sold it .

Shame on me for being a dumb fuck I guess.

really? really? yeah you are a dumb fuck for speaking out of line. you sent me a teclusion box which i never used. i bought a harley super tuner pro jackass.....thats the tuner i sold. i paid $350 for it and sold it for way less on ebay because it had no reserve. the teclision box i gave to a buddy who works on motorcycles. he will use it on something for someone one day. i could ask for it back and send it to you but im not now. but he could sell it for all i care. ill let you know if he does so you can scold him too. i understand where your anger was coming from but i think you owe someone an apology. :) jk man, i forgive you. i get mad sometimes when i dont know the whole sotry and put my foot in my mouth. its all good

gravitywerx
09-20-2012, 5:36 PM
Good thread you got there! I'm doing the same conversion soon on my 2010 1200L.. I got the manifold off a 2005 1200C, should work with my efi stock flange, right???

mine is a 2007 but it should work just fine. all you can do is try. mine bolted right up after i ued the throttle body flanges.

misfitJason
09-20-2012, 6:28 PM
Nice write up

Nottso
09-20-2012, 6:35 PM
Open foot, insert mouth. No wait... it's the other way around. My apologies for jumping to the wrong conclusion. I hope your buddy can use it. Seriously. I just want somebody that needs it to actually use it. Again, my apologies.

gravitywerx
09-20-2012, 6:57 PM
Open foot, insert mouth. No wait... it's the other way around. My apologies for jumping to the wrong conclusion. I hope your buddy can use it. Seriously. I just want somebody that needs it to actually use it. Again, my apologies.

no problem bro. thanks

hf1200l
09-21-2012, 6:18 AM
Thanks homie!!

Did you ditch the ecm?? Sorry, noob here =)

gravitywerx
09-21-2012, 7:34 AM
Thanks homie!!

Did you ditch the ecm?? Sorry, noob here =)

everything on the bike is gone except for the regulator/rectifier. the ecm is the computer than controls everything. well if you have no fuel pump, no inhectors, no sensors, etc etc etc....

vin
09-21-2012, 8:16 AM
nice write up. i am sure it will help many.
FYI my 05 the cam was still tapped for a nose cone ignition. not sure if they still are or what year they stopped but might be worth anyone popping their cover off to see. you can get the complete ultima ignition kit which is a rebadged dyna 2ki including coil for $155 and it all fits in the nosecone. FWIW if the efi bikes dont have the cams tapped for the nosecone ignition you could probably find some performance cams and the ultima kit for the price of the other ignition. just another option

gravitywerx
09-21-2012, 3:18 PM
nice write up. i am sure it will help many.
FYI my 05 the cam was still tapped for a nose cone ignition. not sure if they still are or what year they stopped but might be worth anyone popping their cover off to see. you can get the complete ultima ignition kit which is a rebadged dyna 2ki including coil for $155 and it all fits in the nosecone. FWIW if the efi bikes dont have the cams tapped for the nosecone ignition you could probably find some performance cams and the ultima kit for the price of the other ignition. just another option

i know that the efi bikes the ultima will not fit w/o getting the older cover etc. know a guy who tried it. but as far as the performance cam route that is possible. one of my goals was not to do motor work until i blew something up....only like 8000 on this motor....but i would like to know if anyone has went that route

vin
09-21-2012, 4:22 PM
i know that the efi bikes the ultima will not fit w/o getting the older cover etc. know a guy who tried it. but as far as the performance cam route that is possible. one of my goals was not to do motor work until i blew something up....only like 8000 on this motor....but i would like to know if anyone has went that route

oh yeah, i got a cover from a 2003 but kept my stock cams. it is important that if anyone does this, they have to get a cam cover from 2000-2003 only. 99 and earlier the oil passages in it are different.

gravitywerx
09-21-2012, 6:59 PM
oh yeah, i got a cover from a 2003 but kept my stock cams. it is important that if anyone does this, they have to get a cam cover from 2000-2003 only. 99 and earlier the oil passages in it are different.

i was told if i swapped covers i would have to swap cams. so thats not true? if so then that would be a good way to go as well. as long as you can find a good looking cam cover the same finish as your motor

vin
09-21-2012, 7:35 PM
i was told if i swapped covers i would have to swap cams. so thats not true? if so then that would be a good way to go as well. as long as you can find a good looking cam cover the same finish as your motor

nope, not true. and HD sells all of their finishes in spray cans which are actually great and look identical. i always use them after chopping a cam cover

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/vfuturer/05/mono/F0A524EA-7109-42C7-BA24-2F97B51862BB-27275-000013083F0CBE3C_zps8eacb7cd.jpg

gravitywerx
09-21-2012, 8:57 PM
nope, not true. and HD sells all of their finishes in spray cans which are actually great and look identical. i always use them after chopping a cam cover

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/vfuturer/05/mono/F0A524EA-7109-42C7-BA24-2F97B51862BB-27275-000013083F0CBE3C_zps8eacb7cd.jpg

good deal. thats good to know. so there is another option that is also way cheaper than $700 german ignition

tripn88
09-29-2012, 2:08 PM
hows this working out?

I happened to fall into some money and iv ran out of ideas for my bike... guess what thats a bad combination lol!

rustrocket84
09-29-2012, 6:27 PM
Gravity: Would this be possible to do on a 2010 Softail? My father-in-law wants to ditch the FI and go with carb and this would be a good project for him. Nice write up, thanks for posting.


Yes you can do this on a 2010 softail. I have a Thunderheart All in one ignition on my 2004 Big Twin. Works well and has been on there since 2006. It wires up easily, and if you have access to a Dyno you can fine tune the ignition curve even more.

rustrocket84
09-29-2012, 6:33 PM
it is a good ignition. the tunderheart has a 3 yr warranty. also, if you have to use a warranty from germany, goodluck on that. i can almost buy 3 TH ignitions for $700 and to me the price difference and warranty made up my mind for me. one con to the TH ignition is it does require software to time the bike correctly and the ammp3 does not. to me, $700 was not in my budget. did lust after the ammp3 but this was on a budget...


I really like my Thunderheart. On my bike, which is a Big Twin, one of the stock programmed power curves that the unit had worked right away, and it's still running great almost 6 years later. I think it may be only the sporties that need to be put up to a computer

gravitywerx
09-29-2012, 7:12 PM
I really like my Thunderheart. On my bike, which is a Big Twin, one of the stock programmed power curves that the unit had worked right away, and it's still running great almost 6 years later. I think it may be only the sporties that need to be put up to a computer

mine worked on one of the presets. i never had to use the software....

tripn88
09-29-2012, 10:06 PM
What could I do for a speedometer ( i dont like the bicycle speedo), and dummy lights if possible.

hf1200l
09-30-2012, 4:30 PM
mine worked on one of the presets. i never had to use the software....

Glad to hear! Still waiting for my Thunderheart ignition to arrive tho. Hey, did you fix your bike already??

gravitywerx
10-08-2012, 3:24 PM
Glad to hear! Still waiting for my Thunderheart ignition to arrive tho. Hey, did you fix your bike already??

yes. changed the ngk plugs to harley ones and it ran. go figure.....we had already checked them and gapped them but i guess my bike was just being a bastard and wanted harley parts

hf1200l
10-08-2012, 9:39 PM
yes. changed the ngk plugs to harley ones and it ran. go figure.....we had already checked them and gapped them but i guess my bike was just being a bastard and wanted harley parts

Lol.. Hey i just got my 05 carb & manifold, just waiting for my thunderheart to arrive :) Hope it fits on my 2010 & everythg went smoooth....

ElekVins
10-09-2012, 1:57 PM
thanks for sharing

hf1200l
10-13-2012, 5:52 AM
hey gravity, i install the TH ignition already... Bike wont start, im getting fuel, but not sure with the spark.. how to check em?? On the module there's a red light flashing during starting, so i guess power is there.. Any thoughts??

Stock throttle cable seems to be too short, so i didnt connect em yet..

APECKS192
10-15-2012, 1:59 PM
This might be a dumb question, but I'm totally new to this...

I'm currently collecting parts for this conversion on my 2010.

I'm working on the exhaust; did you guys eliminate the o2 sensors?

gravitywerx
10-15-2012, 6:33 PM
what are your reasons for switching? people swap for different reasons. mine was because my bike is way far from stock and the efi did not serve my purpose and had way too many wires. but your 02 seonsors are controlled by the ecm. which you will not need. unless you want it to control some other parts of the bike. but if that is the case i dont see why you would swap. ......like i said, people swap for different reasons but if you have a mostly factory bike then i would have personally stayed with efi. i have no 02 sensors. only sensor i have is the crank position sensor.

hf1200l
10-16-2012, 7:20 AM
This might be a dumb question, but I'm totally new to this...

I'm currently collecting parts for this conversion on my 2010.

I'm working on the exhaust; did you guys eliminate the o2 sensors?

Hey, mine is 2010 1200 low just converted to carb.. Thanks to Gravity for the write up.. :killerjob:

Should be no problem if you want to eliminate the o2 sensors, only efi do need o2 sensors.. Best of luck..

APECKS192
10-16-2012, 7:32 AM
Okay. Thanks. That's what I figured. I just wanted to make sure.

I'm headed down the same path.

I'm in the process of chopping it up and originally wanted to keep it EFI, but for the sake long term tuning/peace of mind. I'm collecting parts to carb it.

rustrocket84
10-16-2012, 12:17 PM
What could I do for a speedometer ( i dont like the bicycle speedo), and dummy lights if possible.

Pull the factory dummy lights out and buy some mini LED's or find on here somebody was making a small part that reused the factory dummy lights in a new bracket.

You can use the factory Speedo wires and just buy a mini speedo, or Garmin Edge GPS works fine. No need to calibrate.

gravitywerx
10-16-2012, 5:13 PM
although i did not look into it i dont know if using a ecm (?) from a pre 07 would not work if you wanted to keep everything else but change it to carb. but it has a computer to control all the other stuff. but i do not know if that would work or the process. my theory and opinion is, if your gonna cut it up. screw the other stuff. ill know im speeding it i get pulled over, i have hands for signals, and im not a dummy. i know how to get my bike in neutral. my bike will start i gear w/o the clutch in. so if i am not in neutral i will know it as soon as i push the start button.

tripn88
10-16-2012, 5:44 PM
Pull the factory dummy lights out and buy some mini LED's or find on here somebody was making a small part that reused the factory dummy lights in a new bracket.

You can use the factory Speedo wires and just buy a mini speedo, or Garmin Edge GPS works fine. No need to calibrate.

Most of the aftermarket speedos only work up till 03. Not sure what changed with the 04+ speed sensor but no one can seem to give me an answer on what changed. I bought a drag specialties one and Im going to wire it up to see if it works or not, if it doesnt Ill just put in an 03 speed sensor if it does sweet.

As far as dummy lights I really just want my neutral light because I run a jockey shift and its nice just having the light when rolling to a stop but then again you can tell when its in neutral.

gravitywerx
10-16-2012, 5:52 PM
Most of the aftermarket speedos only work up till 03. Not sure what changed with the 04+ speed sensor but no one can seem to give me an answer on what changed. I bought a drag specialties one and Im going to wire it up to see if it works or not, if it doesnt Ill just put in an 03 speed sensor if it does sweet.

As far as dummy lights I really just want my neutral light because I run a jockey shift and its nice just having the light when rolling to a stop but then again you can tell when its in neutral.

on the pre 04 the speedo is controlled via cable. after that, it is done by a combination of sensors etc. so it is electronic. not mechanical. you might be able to convert to a cable driven speedo but once again, never looked into it.

windjamer
10-18-2012, 1:12 AM
gravitywerx glad to see you have worked all the bugs out.

tripn88
11-04-2012, 4:57 PM
hey gravity what setting are you using on the thunderheart? Mine was on the 0 preset and it ran for awhile, then it started back firing and running on one cylinder. everything is still connected nothing pinched plugs look ok. the only thing that i have different on my bike is i have the stock coil.

I know its hard to diagnose with out the bike in front of you, but what would you check?

gravitywerx
11-05-2012, 12:15 PM
hey gravity what setting are you using on the thunderheart? Mine was on the 0 preset and it ran for awhile, then it started back firing and running on one cylinder. everything is still connected nothing pinched plugs look ok. the only thing that i have different on my bike is i have the stock coil.

I know its hard to diagnose with out the bike in front of you, but what would you check?

i would use the thunderheart coil. but i gave mine on the highest setting.....runs great. but i would change the coil out too.

BuellSporty
12-03-2012, 8:59 PM
This is somewhat related. I am wondering if the same type of process can be applied to the 03-08 Buell XB Motors? I am building a Buell rigid sporty and I know I want to go carb. Anyone do it or seen it or know if it will work?

tripn88
12-03-2012, 9:02 PM
If it uses a crank position sensor this will work.

Btw I changed my coil and ignition setting and seems to run better than efi but now it's tuned better haha

Danoh
04-02-2013, 1:24 PM
Ive got the thunderheart but havent hooked it up. Did you just use the "simple" wiring diagram it came with or did you have to add a fuse block?? If so do you have a diagram? It'd be greatly appreciated!!

gravitywerx
04-02-2013, 3:17 PM
Ive got the thunderheart but havent hooked it up. Did you just use the "simple" wiring diagram it came with or did you have to add a fuse block?? If so do you have a diagram? It'd be greatly appreciated!!

i dont have a diagram but my bike has the ignition, headlight, tailight.....thats it. i have never wired a bike before and it was pretty easy. i used a generic diagra off the net and then used what i knew from the ignition diagram

psychokat
05-04-2013, 9:54 PM
Mike, I am making this same swap; as I understand this, the Thunderheart will replace the ECM as far as what controls the firing of the coil and when. You should get really familiar with the stock diagram. With the TH, you only need the crank position sensor. The ECM is monitoring and regulating several other sensors: engine temp, throttle position, manifold pressure, etc. All via variable voltage returns to the ECM. It's not that hard to build a harness, unless you want a bunch of accessories.So I guess you could strip the harness of everything and wire the Thunderheart into the stock harness. I chose not to use the stock harness, or any part of, 'cause I have had gremlins in my harness for almost a year. I don't want any problems transferring over in recycled wires/connectors. If you look at TH's wiring diagram, you will see that there are three wires to their coil, one power wire, one ground wire and one or two( can't remember) wires to the crank sensor. All you gotta do is ID and find those corresponding wires, both on the diagram and the bike, and eliminate everything else. You're gonna find that you still have extra stuff, like the unused fuses in the block. I think it's much cleaner and easier to pull the entire harness and start from scratch. That way you can route the wires where/ how you want, you can switch to breakers if you don't want to deal with fuses( lost or burned out), or at least relocate your fuse block to some place that isn't in the direct path of rainwater/ corrosion/ failure.

psychokat
05-04-2013, 10:04 PM
Forgot, you can't use the TH like the German one; it's designed to piggyback the ECM, it just takes over coil firing/ timing duties. TH is designed as a stand alone ignition. You might be able to reconstruct those other sensors, a la Radio Shack. But with the EFI gone, why bother? One other reason, I think, not to use the stock harness is this: The different sensors and components within the harness cross each other in several weird places. I noticed this when I was studying the diagram, trying to find my gremlins( I got real good at reading it, BTW). My only explanation is partly the shared grounding of the different components, and also that enables diagnostics. Diagnostics are routed both to the speedometer, and to the diagnostic port behind your battery cover. I am not 100% sure that what I just wrote is true, but it looks that way to me. So if you butcher your stock harness and don't loop a certain wire, or cap it with a resistor, or some such, you may give birth to gremlins of your own... muwhahaha!

psychokat
05-04-2013, 10:07 PM
The reason you can't use any old ignition, is prior to '04, on sportys the ignition was timed off a cam position sensor. In '04 it went to a crank position sensor.

farmall
05-05-2013, 7:45 AM
Looks like modding the late cam to the old style is easy if you want to save money.

http://vulcanworks.net/Sportster-Cam-Cover-With-Ignition-Finned-2004-Up-p-17177.html

psychokat
05-05-2013, 11:08 AM
Oh. man! Farmall, that's awesome! Still pricier than the TH ignition, but a very cool alternative...

farmall
05-06-2013, 2:06 PM
Looking at pics of the cam cover on Ebay, it may be possible (if you have machinist friends or are one) to bore out the cam cover on a mill and install a seal then mount the other ignition parts.

Since the camshaft is similar to the old cams (measurement comparison required to confirm) perhaps their is enough meat in the cover casting to fit the old-style seal. Both style covers would be required for comparison.

You could indicate off the camshaft bushing bore to bore the hole from the back, then indicate off the bushing bore through hole you just made to cut the seat for the seal, in order to get 'em concentric. The "points cover" mounts on the late cover are cast in and would need to be milled down to use standoffs. They are also not in the same location as older mounts.

If there isn't enough meat to hold the seal, a seal holder plate isn't rocket science but needs a flat surface or O-ring to seal it to the cover.

You'd have to mount the ignition base plate, but they aren't under much stress. They don't necessarily have to be a circular plate so long as they are adjustable, if clearing the bosses in that cover is required.

Again, I don't have those covers in hand, but it might not suck too much to do though it would be tedious. It would be too expensive retail to bother with.

Someone with a trashed cover could have fun dissecting it. If I did, I would, and I don't even own that year Sporty.

gravitywerx
05-07-2013, 6:57 PM
Did you guys use your stock throttle cables?

i did

MIKEOD
05-07-2013, 7:21 PM
Nice thanks! I got the carb and throttle cable on today Should get the ignition tomorrow!

MIKEOD
05-09-2013, 6:11 PM
Pretty stoked got everything together today and bike started right up first time! Thanks for all the info!

psychokat
05-10-2013, 12:21 AM
This is all very motivating! I have now ordered the last( I hope) of the parts I need to finish my swap. As soon as my electrical components and manifold get back, it's off to the races! Gravitywerx, I decided to use my efi manifold and just weld the SU adapter right to it. It is being done by Toxic Choppers here in Colorado Springs, and it is looking awesome! He is building up the area after the weld to smooth it all together... With any luck it will be on the road in a couple weeks.

boogerdp
05-10-2013, 9:52 AM
Bookmarking this thread for future reference...:cheersmate:

Any photos of the modified EFI intake?

gravitywerx
07-15-2013, 3:11 PM
Some things to consider if your doing this conversion. EFI heads are wider then 04-06 heads. I got a 05 manifold and soon as you put it up to the ports you can see the gap its pretty bad I haven't tried thicker seals but I just said fuck it and got the right manifold. I couldn't seem to get to seal right its a pain in the ass. Ive taken it apart more times then I can count. The fix is hammer performance makes wide efi manifolds that fits cv carbs. $175.00.http://www.hammerperf.com/xlfuelsystems.shtml#billetmanifolds or save yourself a lot of time and get a 03 and down sporty. It can be done though! I ordered the manifold today and I will let ya know how it goes.

this caused no issue for me and i had no manifold leaks

psychokat
07-23-2013, 8:21 PM
OK, found this thread again, didn't know anyone was still posting on it... I have put close to a thousand miles on the SU/ Thunderheart since I got it all back together. It is running great, and here are some things I have learned:
1) According to Thunderheart, setting three is the best starting point for the sportys. I found some info from a guy called Buzz Buzzelli on the best advance curve for evo sportys. Setting three is the closest to his curve, but I ended up making my own based on Buzz's recommendations.
2) Setting the custom curve is super easy, IF you get the right adapter! I bought a very expensive serial port to USB adapter from Staples, and it didn't work. So I called Thunderheart back and asked them which I should buy. They recommend the Tripp-Lite adapter, so I got that and it works like a charm.
3) The SU is a great carb, and a work of art, to boot!

I don't have any pics of the manifold, but it works great 'cause it's the efi manifold... To the guy who is running his TH on the highest setting, are you noticing any detonation? I think your final advance is too high at that setting... Try setting 'B'. It is the same as '3' but with a slightly higher rev limit.

SinisterRouge
09-10-2013, 3:21 PM
got a few more months of riding before i can bring myself to park the bike long enough to do the swap along with some other work ive got planned.:cheersmate:

gravitywerx
09-10-2013, 5:04 PM
I have a 2007xl1200r converted to carb. Some things i learned i can finally say this because the bike is running well. Do not buy a carb from win cycles they blow. Killer mikes cv carb is the way to go if you need a sweet carb ready to go. Get the right size manifold when you place a 04-06 manifold up to the heads with no flanges on it you will see a lot of extra space mine never sealed right,hammer performance makes the wider manifold you need because efi heads are wider then 04-06 heads. S&S 04&06 manifold same thing! I ended up using a 06 sporty wiring harness keep in mind if you do that the turn signal module will not work with that harness you will have to jump the wires. Ground wire to the starter. with that said your sensors nor turn signals will not work. There are aftermarket modules you can buy badlands makes them lowbrow carries them. You willl need a map sensor and coil for a 04-06 sporty. Maybe this will help some people. My bike is running good no problems that's what worked for me. The guy above has the right idea as well by using the stock manifold. Keep all your efi parts until you get the carb conversion right!

i had no issues whatsoever with the 04-06 manifold. i used the efi flanges and it never leaked at all. i guess some people have different issues but that was never one of mine

meatfarts
09-30-2013, 2:42 PM
OK, I'm going to keep this thread alive.

Just ordered an S&S super e kit with the manifold and a thunder heart ignition for my 48... Really hope the manifold seals up... Looks like others are getting mixed results.
I'm hoping to get this party started next weekend but that depends on how quickly my parts come in the mail.

I'm really starting to stress out over the wiring post-carb conversion.
The whole reason I'm doing this is because of the ecm / efi gremlins that have been plaguing me... I just want things simple.

I'm curious as to what will work / not work after I make the swap to carb / TH ignition.... Anyone know exactly?

Already using the info on this thread to plan accordingly (thanks!)... If you guys know of anything else that may be of use, please let me know.

Looking forward to this (also terrified)

SinisterRouge
09-30-2013, 5:23 PM
Just started pulling efi parts to do this as well

meatfarts
10-03-2013, 11:08 AM
My Super E and Thunder Heart came in yesterday... Going to start working on my conversion this weekend.... Still concerned about electronics after the swap, not sure what I'll have to rewire if anything. Anyone? Thanks.

SinisterRouge
10-14-2013, 9:12 AM
you would be better off pulling the wiring harness and just starting over i think. is this the thunderheart you ordered? im ready to order, thunderheart wont write me back, just want to make sure this is right
http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Heart-Performance-Stand-Alone-Ignition/dp/B000GV5HNS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381763441&sr=8-1&keywords=thunderheart+ignition

TB
10-14-2013, 10:07 AM
Sinister, that's the right one. Call Thunderheart. They have great service. The wiring is pretty straight forward I thought. CPS signal, a run to the coils and power/grounds. I went a different route, obviously, but began with one of these initially.

meatfarts
10-14-2013, 5:29 PM
agree, that's the one...
I got my bike up and running yesterday with the thunder heart and super E... just need to tune it.
I decided not to ditch the ECM yet because I have a big road trip coming up before it gets too cold.
I'll probably rewire everything with just the basics later this year.

wiring the ignition was easier than I expected... just had to fab some brackets.... I couldn't make use of the one that was included.

hopefully this weekend I can tune it (after I am 100% sure there's not an intake leak.... still nervous about that) and then I'm good... you know, until something else breaks.

thanks for the how-to gravitywerx!

harleyguy015
10-16-2013, 3:07 PM
i have a gently used thunderheart ignition if anyone is interested. pm me

shed71
12-04-2013, 1:05 PM
Yeah I was wondering the same thing how you got it to work and I couldn't... It didn't start leaking right away but once the engine got hot sure enough if it would leak. I also tested with starter fluid. I also wonder about the amm p-3 dude that did because I have a 04-06 S&S manifold and that would leak as well. But really the way the manifold is suppose to fit is to be really snug on the heads just enough space on each side to fit a piece of paper. I imagine ever ones outcome will be different.

I ran into this problem with the manifold not clamping good and snug, luckily i have access to a 3 axis laser so made some 2mm(14swg) packers (1 either side), carb is rock solid with no carb brkt, as this conversion becomes more popular i dare say someone like lowbrow will be knocking them out for a few quid in various thickness's,

schraubergott
12-04-2013, 1:42 PM
am i the only one how didnt see the pic's??

regards


I ran into this problem with the manifold not clamping good and snug, luckily i have access to a 3 axis laser so made some 2mm(14swg) packers (1 either side), carb is rock solid with no carb brkt, as this conversion becomes more popular i dare say someone like lowbrow will be knocking them out for a few quid in various thickness's,

shed71
01-06-2014, 4:19 AM
am i the only one how didnt see the pic's??

regards

Apologies for the delay. The photos are of a spare pair I made..

Mickey
01-07-2014, 2:35 PM
My Super E and Thunder Heart came in yesterday... Going to start working on my conversion this weekend.... Still concerned about electronics after the swap, not sure what I'll have to rewire if anything. Anyone? Thanks.

Hi!

I did this to my softail, and I made it the quick n dirty way, just cut where I needed and left all stock cables under the seat, it works just fine.

And its pretty simple following the installation guide from thunderheart.

Best Regards

Mickey

shed71
01-07-2014, 4:03 PM
My thunderheart ignition arrived today:clap for you:,
the coil weighs a bit compared to standard one,
As soon as I get house move out of the way I will fit (17th Jan),
In the mean time I am going to cut some a decent brkt to hold the coil between the pots.
This will be powder coated black and I will cut a few spare.
Powder coating is cheap round our way ( every thing on my bike was 20 / $30approx)
As soon as they are done (by end of jan) I will post pics.

The spares will be going begging,
free to good homes as long as you pay postage(iwill find out cost from uk over next week)
If the postage is a piss take I will post a diagram so you can make your own.

the info/insperation I have gleaned of this site has been mega, would be right to put something back

woz
01-07-2014, 8:27 PM
Shed, do you feel confident those spacers will help the seal? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it right, but I feel like that will for sure make the manifold more solid but not really help the sealing issue. Does the seal contact the spacer? Or does the seal pass thru the spacer you made?

If it contacts it you would be opening the possibility of air leaking between the head and spacer, if it doesn't the seal is most likely not contacting the head surface.

I suppose that also could depend on material used for the spacers...

shed71
01-08-2014, 1:04 PM
Shed, do you feel confident those spacers will help the seal? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it right, but I feel like that will for sure make the manifold more solid but not really help the sealing issue. Does the seal contact the spacer? Or does the seal pass thru the spacer you made?

If it contacts it you would be opening the possibility of air leaking between the head and spacer, if it doesn't the seal is most likely not contacting the head surface.

I suppose that also could depend on material used for the spacers...

the spacers have been sealed to the heads using gasket paper and sealant,
the hole in the centre matches perfectly to the head,
the seals then squeeze up to the spacers instead of the heads,
when everything was tightend it was rock solid.

woz
01-08-2014, 5:09 PM
the spacers have been sealed to the heads using gasket paper and sealant,
the hole in the centre matches perfectly to the head,
the seals then squeeze up to the spacers instead of the heads,
when everything was tightend it was rock solid.

Got it, seems like it should do the trick then. You don't happen to have a drawing of those spacers do you?

MIKEOD
01-10-2014, 9:46 PM
Shed that's a good idea!

meatfarts
01-14-2014, 6:22 PM
My conversion went great... still playing with the carb but it ran well enough to take about an 800 mile trip down the east coast in november with no major issues.
I still haven't messed with the ECM wiring, will probably tackle that soon.
Seems as though my intake manifold is sealing although it has acted a little wacky on occasion at extremely high temps so it's def a possibility... I'm sure the gremlins will show up this spring / summer when I can really give the bike a beating in warm weather.

shed71
03-22-2014, 11:05 AM
Yeeee Ha!!!! chuffed to f@*k, Finished wiring my bike up, all lights, brake lights horn and indicators work, all idiot lights are still fitted as well, After being off the road for 18 months I thought I may have trouble starting it, First flick of the key like I parked it up yesterday, set the tickover job done . Biggest worry was that the carb I am running is a screaming eagle Keihin butterfly carb and every one I spoke to said they were shite, but it seems to work a treat,

sorry no pics but will post as soon as get chance,

Will post pics of thunderheart mount I made as well, I have two spare if anyone would like one, more than substantial enough, they are laser cut from 5mm stainless steel,You will have to hammer two fold in but I will send a diagram and instructions.

Just Hope I have enough spare cash at end of month to tax,mot and insure it..........Roll on the sunshine.

shed71
04-28-2014, 12:38 PM
I posted some pictures in my profile because I cant get the images to upload here.

I had to post my pics in the profile as I couldnt get em up on the forum(??????), first few show the bike finished, rest are when it was being worked on.

SinisterRouge
06-07-2014, 2:19 PM
ok so ive got my bike all together. it doesn't wanna crank and when i get it running for a few seconds it sounds like a lawn mower. im going to have to adjust the carb of course, but iw as wondering those that have used the thunderheart, did you program it?

shed71
06-08-2014, 1:36 PM
I didnt programme mine, i just put it on one of the pre sets , i think it was 3b from memory , The instructions list the presets, mines set on sportster with a slightly higher rev limit-- check your carb is not running super rich and drowning your plugs, it happened to mine at first, you need to get it out on a run and do a few plug chops, take a screw driver and adjust on the way, I just kept on going round the block(about 2 miles) stopped at my house, made an adjustment and round again, workin on the theory that if it did go tits up i would only have to push it a mile back home , if you get stuck for a copy of the instructions on the thunderheart, i will scan mine and post them in my photo album ( cant post pics on forum???)

SinisterRouge
06-16-2014, 10:31 AM
set mine to 3b, still no change. any ideas? here is a video. http://web.stagram.com/p/737788210696836722_1084340916

psychokat
06-17-2014, 11:55 AM
I just found this post again. I did this conversion last memorial day(2013). I am using the thunderheart and an SU carb. I used the stock efi manifold and an S&S to SU adapter and had the two welded together. I still need to clean it up and polish, but it worked out great. I have been running it hard for the last year with zero issues. For the thunderheart setting. Most of the presets will work ok for a stock sporty, but I found a guy named Buzz Buzzelli who is some kind of sporty/ racing guru. He has listed advance curves for e-ignition sportys online. I used his curve and am very happy with it. I may be able to squeeze out a little more advance if I kept playing with it, but the bike runs great and pulls hard ('cept for the usual drag pipe midrange flop). Google his name with evo sporty advance curve. copy it down, then open the thunderheart program on your laptop. create a custom map, then save it. Next you need to order a trip-lite usb to serial port adapter. That will allow you to connect your laptop to the ignition and upload your custom program. Thunderheart does recommend the trip-lite( because for some reason, not just any adapter will work. Some won't interface between your laptop and the thunderheart), but it's not the most expensive one. I made the mistake of buying a different brand. It was more expensive so I figured 'it should work, because its the most expensive one I can find'. It did not work. So I called TH, got the skinny on the trip lite, got one, and blamo! Worked like a charm. I told them they should just include it in their kit and charge another 50bucks. Once you have the adapter, follow the directions to upload the custom file, make sure you set it on the custom setting (don't remember which one off hand). If you're having issues with it running, it may well be something else, not the setting you're on. I tried pretty much every setting while I was waiting for the adapter, and I could tell a dif between them, but it ran on pretty much them all. good luck!

shed71
06-22-2014, 4:52 AM
49123

shed71
06-22-2014, 4:58 AM
4912449125

all done, jetted in, goes really well, lovin it

JaxZilla
06-24-2014, 12:44 PM
Would love to do this to begin my chopper adventures.

Still can't see pics, anyone else

89325iturbo
01-20-2015, 7:18 PM
Bumping this thread, I'm in the process of doing this swap. I'm not able to see any pictures either. Just wanted to hear from people in this thread to how everything is working out.

tripn88
01-21-2015, 10:07 AM
Bumping this thread, I'm in the process of doing this swap. I'm not able to see any pictures either. Just wanted to hear from people in this thread to how everything is working out.

Been running mine for a few years now. Thunderheart brain went out but no isolation and sitting on top of the oil tank probably doesn't help. Also put an s&s shorty on it and it screams.

89325iturbo
01-22-2015, 8:09 PM
Any pictures of mounting the ignition module? Plan on just making my own basic harness, so wasn't sure if I wanted to remotely mount the module. Or mount it with the coil, just don't want it to look to bulky.

turk33
04-21-2015, 11:42 AM
http://www.amm.haan.de/EFI_to_carb_XL_models/EFI_to_carb_XL_models.htm

this might help. pretty good step by step with pictures

woz
04-21-2015, 12:14 PM
a tip to anyone using the thunderheart system, mount it in an area where it will stay as cool as possible, i first mounted mine under my seat and when it would get really hot the bike would just completely cut out. id stop, wait a minute, start it up and it was good to go, unit was for sure over heating though.

i have my coil mounted in between the heads and after taking a bit of plastic off of the coil (inbetween the mounting holes) i was able to mount the module right on top (the holes are sized for this) and upside down so the wires were kind of hidden.

it still overheated on me once but it was outside of bakersfield on a 100+ day and shut off once, but i think they was some heat soak invovled there from when we stopped to fuel up.

AbyssmalTailgate
01-27-2017, 11:27 PM
This is a good thread, even if the original post doesn't display the pics anymore. Can't believe how much it costs to "downgrade" a mototrcycle lol, bur after learning a bit about the parts and everything, carbs still seem like the way to go. If it ain't broke, don't fix it hahaha

Jamdomain0
02-10-2017, 11:21 AM
For some odd reason your pics aren't showing up on my phone. Thinking that maybe a desktop might solve this issue. Anyways really wish to be able to view your pic demos....