PDA

View Full Version : Triumph Wiring



lfdiaff
07-08-2012, 5:19 AM
Well I am to the wiring point and gonna admit im a little scared. I will give you guys the run down and pray for help. I will be running a head light tail light, points, sparkx regulator capacitor battery eliminator so obviously no battery and a dual lead coil. One big question I have is do I just run one condenser or two and how do I wire it in. Any and all help would be great first bike build. Oh yeah and should I go pos ground or neg.

Finkit
07-08-2012, 8:18 AM
Here are some diagrams, Neg ground if you would like to run LED lights.


http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/index.php?l=page_view&p=tech_triumph_british_chopper_wiring_diagrams

RetroRob
07-08-2012, 8:46 AM
Id do Neg ground.

GreaseStain
07-08-2012, 8:51 AM
Be prepared to wire it more than once.. even following the cleanest diagram like those on that lowbrow link (awesome btw Fink appreciate that def going in my quick ref. guide) theres always something that makes you end up re-doing it .. if I were to suggest anything it would be to wait on soldering all the connections/blasting the heat shrink until its tested working and THEN soldier and heat the shrink wrap. To date im pretty sure i've wired my trumpet ..4 maybe 5 times .. plan on doing it again here soon too.. kinda becomes enjoyable in a sick twisted way after the 3rd or 4th time you do it actually kinda looking forward to it ( i should note thats due to several re-builds and the entire bike coming back apart not all of those were technical problems but at least 2 or 3 were in the beginning)

lfdiaff
07-08-2012, 9:15 AM
Lowbrow never stops. Thanks guys couldn't do it without ya.

Torch
07-08-2012, 10:03 AM
on a points ignition, one coil = one condenser,

And I guess that means you going to run points so be prepared, you may to have some problems with that.
when you run two sets of points with one coil on a "no battery" bike, in the ignition almost always has one set of points closed and that drains out the capacitor inside the battery eliminator and often times makes the bike hard to kick start.

The one thing that is required for a good working " No battery" bike is a strong alternator, and the one thing you need for a strong alternator is a NEW rotor. the rotor is a magnet wheel and all magnets get weaker over time, even if your rotor passes all the screwdriver tests all the grey beards tell you about, an old rotor is not as strong as a new rotor.

If you get tired of having problems with that and decide to update the bike to make it simpler and easier to start and easier to wire then go to an Pazon electronic ignition and a Boyer Light Delay Battery Eliminator. These are the main components we use in our "No battery Kit".

It's a real easy to wire no battery system that does not need a light switch or an ignition switch, when the bike starts up the lights come on and when you push the kill switch everything shuts off.

Here is a wiring diagram for our No Battery Kit.......
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq294/A1dunn/diagram0011.jpg

Trevor04
07-10-2012, 7:55 PM
where would i put a kill switch\ on off switch to replace key ignition for a system with a battery, podtronics reg rec, points, and single accel dual lead coil. i dont really have a decent place to put a key ignition and im going for the minimalist look anyway.

Torch
07-10-2012, 8:21 PM
my view on key switches.

No key switch ever prevented a motorcycle from being stolen, most stolen bikes are quietly rolled down the street and loaded into a pick up truck. and if you can see the wires on the back of a switch, why do you need the key?

If you are going with a minimalist look then why a battery, the one cool thing about my system is when you kill the engine everything is off.

61xlh
07-10-2012, 8:45 PM
havin a bit o trouble myself.
new engine, new alternator, tympanium ,single coil, points, no battery.
im getting a very sporadic spark.. its late, but i just had a thought
could a bad ground on the tympanium cause a sporadic spark?
done this routine a thousand times, just never had this particular problem.
bein 103 gegrees plus here in south texas, its really kickin my ass kickin this thing over , thinkin "gonna be the next kick.........
never needed a capacitor before....

backwithabang
07-10-2012, 8:49 PM
I had a battery for about a month on mine. Then I just ripped it all out got a mag, 4 wires in total.

One kick everytime, no problems. It's worth the cash.

Torch
07-10-2012, 8:59 PM
when you run a Tympanium unit you have to run a capacitor.
A Tympanium is not a battery eliminator, it is only a regulator/rectifier unit.

Torch
07-10-2012, 9:10 PM
I had a battery for about a month on mine. Then I just ripped it all out got a mag, 4 wires in total.

One kick everytime, no problems. It's worth the cash.
yes $700 and $900 magnetos are cool,
but you still gotta have lights... and if you can make the lights come on without a battery you can make an $150 electronic ignition work too.

plus the E/I has an advance unit which makes it a much more effective ignition system, a magneto is a fixed timing ignition and being fixed at 38 BTC it does not run as well at any RPM that is lower than 3000 RPM.

I've had a lot of bikes with mags, they run fine but it's hard to justify the $700 when you can do no battery bike easier and cheaper with an electronic ignition

Trevor04
07-11-2012, 4:52 AM
on my other bonnie i was running no batt and points with a batt eleminator capacitor and rec reg, and she was a pain to start and when i flipped the lights on at idle it would die, so im just going with a battery to prevent some headache until i get the pazon elect ignition. what im wanting is a kill switch that i can turn on to get the bike started then another switch for the lighting.

Torch your diagram is great im going to try that exact setup when i get the pazon elect ignition, but the boyer light delay box is that basically the same thing as my podtronics rec reg

backwithabang
07-11-2012, 5:35 AM
yes $700 and $900 magnetos are cool,
but you still gotta have lights... and if you can make the lights come on without a battery you can make an $150 electronic ignition work too.

plus the E/I has an advance unit which makes it a much more effective ignition system, a magneto is a fixed timing ignition and being fixed at 38 BTC it does not run as well at any RPM that is lower than 3000 RPM.

I've had a lot of bikes with mags, they run fine but it's hard to justify the $700 when you can do no battery bike easier and cheaper with an electronic ignition

There is also the bonus of potential leg/ankle breaking kickstart kickback and the lights that will pretty much indicate your speed in terms of their brightness semi disco effect with a mag

I understand your point and if I had anything in worth a shit electrically when I got the bike I would have went that route. But I had no points, my Boyer system was shot, a battery eliminator unit that was fried and no where to put a battery if I bought one anyway. So I figured why not just go mag?

And yes to the low rpm point. The bike does not seem as smooth between low rpm ranges and it's noticeable if you have ever rode a trump with an intact auto advance. However on rigid with a 7 over springer. Performance is not high on the list.

Torch
07-11-2012, 7:45 AM
Torch your diagram is great im going to try that exact setup when i get the pazon elect ignition, but the boyer light delay box is that basically the same thing as my podtronics rec reg

no, it's not, a Podtronic's charge unit is not a battery eliminator and requires a battery or a capacitor to work at idle.

the Boyer light delay is a "battery eliminator" electronic control unit, It sends all the power to the ignition when you are kick starting the bike, after there is more voltage than the ignition needs when running it automatically turn the lights on. and if your bike gets low on power at idle it turns the lights off to keep the engine running.
that is why you don't need a light switch or ignition switch.

it sounds like you also need to replace your rotor if your bike will not idle with the lights on, and you will see I mention the use of LED light bulbs in the taillight, this allows the ignition and lights to work at idle.

The biggest requirement for a well running "No Battery" set up is a good strong alternator, most people take the rotor out and stick it to a metal table and think " it must be good it stuck to the table".....wrong !

If you don't own a Gauss meter you have no idea how strong the magnets are, buy a new rotor. you will be amazed, we sell re-charged rotors for $40 and new rotors for $80, It's very important not to cheap-out on this thing, in most cases you don't need a new stator, the stator has no moving parts and if it's not damaged in some way it's likely still good. Magnets however go weak over time, most Lucas rotors have a date stamp, if it ain't new, it's old.

Everything in that "No Battery kit" is there for a reason, after much trial and error, this is the best set up I have come up with,...
the Boyer light delay does it's switching thing, the Pazon ignition works better at low voltage.(there is a reason we don't use Boyer ignitions) wiring it as a negative ground allows for the use of LEDs and the LED tail light doesn't burn much power, the single coil is load matched to the ignition.
we sell everything in that "No battery kit" with my own diagram for $400.

ThePete
07-11-2012, 7:55 AM
It just goes to show you can never truly exercise the dark prince from brit bikes, I used to do Mini Coopers (the real ones not the ones that BMW makes now) and there always seems to be some kind of electrical gremlin to chase down in any Lucas shit, regardless if you've gutted it and re done everything with as many non-Lucas parts as you can.

starwolf
07-11-2012, 3:54 PM
If I ever decide to go battery-less, I'll certainly be goin' with Torch's "kit" just based on the fact tha man knows this shit like the back of his hand!

Trevor04
07-11-2012, 7:18 PM
im going the battery route but also with the pazon elect ign. im tired of riding a bike that isnt very reliable. but what about the kill switch, where is the best location for it

Torch
07-11-2012, 7:30 PM
im going the battery route but also with the pazon elect ign. im tired of riding a bike that isnt very reliable. but what about the kill switch, where is the best location for it
a engine kill button is not the same as a battery disconnect switch. a kill button is normally just one wire.

in my opinion a kill button mounting position should be on the handle bars so when that old worn out Amal carb sticks in the full throttle position as you are going through a turn.

The way the kill button is connected is determined by if you wire it as a positive ground or negative ground,

Read your Pazon wiring instructions to see how..

backwithabang
07-11-2012, 9:02 PM
Yes. Amals warrant kill switches and perhaps a fire extinguisher. my shut off switch is current a screwdriver I keep in my back pocket and my kill switch is my foot to the spark plugs. (I'm still figuring out the final bike look so I didn't wire a shutoff yet).

As for a mag setup. I have a decent stator, it's stock early 70s. And my lights burn bright when throttle is my estimate anywhere over 1800 rpms. I run no gauges so that's just a guess. Only running 2 lights with a regulator. Don't know if upgrading the stator is even worth it with a mag as I feel the high performance one won't make that much of a difference

Trevor04
07-14-2012, 5:44 PM
hey whats the best type of coil to run with the pazon electric ignition.

Torch
07-14-2012, 6:13 PM
this is the one I like it's an Emgo ...http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq294/A1dunn/coil.jpg

Trevor04
07-14-2012, 6:42 PM
where can i get one, and if i got a similar dual lead coil what ohm is best

backwithabang
07-14-2012, 7:07 PM
Can't you just use a mikes xs high output coil? Or even a regular dual output from mikes to save space. A coils a coil. But I'd check with torch about ohms recommended in conjunction with the electrical system you are using

Torch
07-14-2012, 10:49 PM
We sell them as well as many other retailers, call me and I'll ship one to you. they typically run about $46.00 they are a 4.0 ohm coil which is currant matched well for most E/I ignitions to give you a decent spark without over heating the control box.

To those that want to read all this, here is what I know about this stuff..

electrical rule no. 1. - Heat is the destroyer of all things electrical.....that's why all the cooling fins on electrical shit.

without getting too technical about it, the resistance rating of the coil in an electronic ignition is a compromise of the strength of the spark and the heat generated inside the ignition box, you can use a 3 ohm or even a 2 ohm coil and it will give you a much hotter spark, but it may cost you a $150 ignition,
Points aren't as sensitive to amperage load and the coils will change values as they heat up so damn near any old coil will work. Except when you get into the A/C ignitions that are on many Japanese bikes, but that's a whole different system.

A couple of good things to remember about wiring a bike, everything needs to be clean, tight and cool, a shitty electrical connection (dirty grounds) causes resistance in the circuit and that can cause low voltage and high amperage heat in the wires and components.
the coil also needs to be properly mounted to the frame to dissipate the heat or the resistance will go up and it will loose spark strength causing a miss at high speeds (sometimes causing you to buy a new carburetor chasing this miss). and the control box needs to be in an area the gets a little air or mounted to something it can dissipate heat through to also stay cool, don't wrap it in foam thinking the vibrations will kill it, it will be the heat that kills it.
And corrosion is responsible for many good electrical parts to be thrown away, most electrical contact points are copper or silver and both of those metals conduct electricity well, but they corrode easily, so there is this thing called Dielectric grease, use it and you'll have a lot less problems.

Trevor04
07-15-2012, 7:13 PM
im super pumped i ordered my pazon sure fire, cant wait to get it in and get riding. one question. while the bike is running if i have my kill switch cut out the battery will it stop the bike or should i cut out the coil with the kill switch.

Torch
07-15-2012, 7:37 PM
im super pumped i ordered my pazon sure fire, cant wait to get it in and get riding. one question. while the bike is running if i have my kill switch cut out the battery will it stop the bike or should i cut out the coil with the kill switch.
it all depends on how you wired it, many things come into play here, positive or negative ground and if the alternator wiring goes around the battery power then the thing will keep on running.
all you really need to do is switch the white wire (negative) on the Pazon brain box, that will turn the ignition off no mater what.

do some internet searching and come up with a good simple wiring diagram that you can follow.
Look at these two, and don't freak out...the Boyer ignition wiring the same as a Pazon ignition wiring..
http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc16a.html
http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc16b.html

I prefer the negative ground because it allows you to use the common 1157 LED tail light bulbs that don't burn out.

Trevor04
07-16-2012, 3:05 PM
the tail light i have is one of the old repop ford stop lights from lowbrow, it doesnt use an led but i might go with an led for my headlight will the neg ground work good for both the led and regular filament lights

Torch
07-16-2012, 3:30 PM
the tail light i have is one of the old repop ford stop lights from lowbrow, it doesnt use an led but i might go with an led for my headlight will the neg ground work good for both the led and regular filament lights
The taillight you have is likely the small Vincent "stop" taillight in which case we have small LED bulbs that will fit them and never burn out.
We also sell several visions of LED taillights that fit the Model A, 32, and other old Ford taillights as well as the single element LED lights that fit the existing sockets,
Here is a picture of the LED lens unit....http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq294/A1dunn/ledlight001.jpg

wilkie
07-16-2012, 3:54 PM
I spoke to Boyer Bransden last year about the resistance of a coil for an electronic ignition and they said a minimum 3 OHM but preferably a 4 or 5 OHM.I got a 5 Ohm from a Honda but i dont know what the honda model was but it works great.

Trevor04
07-16-2012, 6:26 PM
yea torch thats the light im guessing the local auto parts store will carry the led bulbs, and thanks for the info on the coils i will look for a 4 or 5 ohm,

Torch
07-16-2012, 6:26 PM
a 5 ohm coil will work fine as for the stress it puts on the brain box, but the higher the resistance (or ohms) the weaker the spark will be, many times a standard Lucas 12 volt coil is 4.5 ohms each and many people are running two of them in series, it's just a weaker spark and it can cause a miss fire with a rich mixture at a low voltage idle.
the single 4.0 ohms dual lead 12 volt coils work great, ...and so do two 2.5 ohm 6 volt series wired coils.

Torch
07-16-2012, 6:34 PM
yea torch thats the light im guessing the local auto parts store will carry the led bulbs, and thanks for the info on the coils i will look for a 4 or 5 ohm,

you may need a pair of these to go in those little Vincent style " STOP" taillights,
typically the ones available at the auto parts stores won't fit under the lens.....http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq294/A1dunn/SMDLED.jpg