PDA

View Full Version : Powdercoating a triumph frame



MRB
07-05-2012, 4:17 PM
I was just quoted $1100.00 bucks to powder a triumph front loop, hardtail , mounting plates and axel adjusters . Is this alot for sand blasting and gloss black?

MRB

CRFyou
07-05-2012, 4:23 PM
I was just quoted $1100.00 bucks to powder a triumph front loop, hardtail , mounting plates and axel adjusters . Is this alot for sand blasting and gloss black?

MRB

Yes. That's a lot!


I've done what you just mentioned in gloss black for $130

See this pic.... The paint cost me $350. That was a bro deal though....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/CRFyou/EBAY%2069/DSC_0063.jpg

Trinda
07-05-2012, 5:31 PM
http://www.powderbuythepound.com/BLACK_OUTGASSING_60-_GLOSS/
$12 for a pound of powder. A pound will do three times what you're talking about. so that's $4 in materials. plus blasting - $20-$50. plus labor. should cost about $70-$150 total from my experience.

MRB
07-05-2012, 5:47 PM
Thanks guys for the input. I don't want to be cheap but the bike is adding up fast and that money is not in the bank at this time. If that was a fair price, I may have to wait and save up a few more $.
MRB

vnygra
07-05-2012, 6:00 PM
That is way too high. And here's my opinion on powder coating your frame- DON'T!

Why? If its a bike that you are building, and you enjoy working on it. You WILL want to change something at one point. It's never going to be "done". Want to add a bracket for some sweet piece you found at a swap meet that needs welded to your frame? Now your fucked and will need your frame re powdered. If you can paint it yourself, fine. I'll spend weeks painting a tank and fender, but when it comes to frame paint, its getting rattle canned. Can always touch up that spot you had to grind or whatever without taking the whole bike apart.

SSWolf18
07-05-2012, 6:12 PM
I was quoted around 800 by a local powder coater,they said i must blast and degrease before i drop it off....WTF your hands have grease on them?
The hardest part in powdercoating is the oven. I had my frame done for the cost of powder with a friends oven.(powder from Powderbuythepound.com_wet black 12 bux a pound. 400 degrees for ten minutes) I did all the smaller bits and pieces in a regualar house oven-note you shouldn't use the oven in your home...powdercoat IS toxic!
I'm in the process of making my own oven 8' long,3' wide,4' tall.

Torch
07-05-2012, 9:16 PM
a frame usually cost us about $400 to P/C

Trinda
07-06-2012, 7:24 AM
I really can't believe the prices some of you guys are getting quoted! time for me to get into the powdercoating game again!!! Open shop, $200 a frame and have everyone on chop cult send them to me and I'll make a fortune!

guschambers
07-06-2012, 8:01 AM
ya thats way too much, man.
I got a BSA frame done for under 200, and thats here in Canada where everything costs way more.

CRFyou
07-06-2012, 8:42 AM
Okay. I'm gonna find the name and number of the dude that did my frame.

I will post it here, shortly.

No one pays over $200 bux ever again for a frame. Okay?

Torch
07-06-2012, 9:49 AM
be careful, Not all powder coating is equal...

Powder coating is similar in many ways to a paint job, the preparation,clean handling, baking time and temperature all come in to play, and cheap job is not always a good job.

We just re-did a whole bike that had brand new powder coating done way too thick and heavy, we could not even read the serial numbers, so the owner brought it to us and we had it blasted off and we had everything re powder coated everything correctly.
It was every single black piece of a stock bike ( serial numbered as 1969 Triumph Bonneville #1 ) it cost us $535 to get all that brand new powder coating blasted off and then to correctly powder coat all 51 pieces of this bike.

Yes, I know this is a restoration bike and it's different on a custom framed chopper.

But...When a good powder coat shop does it they plug all the threaded holes and mask off everything correctly, otherwise you spend hours chasing threads and cleaning off areas of unwanted coating. Our shop rate is $90 per hour, so a budget powder coat job ends up costing more.

SSWolf18
07-06-2012, 1:05 PM
Great point Torch!.
It is very easy to put powder on in excess. The air pressure and gun come into play big time,as well as a dust free room,plugs and the high temp tape for masking things off.

I should have mentioned that my room mate was a powder coater at Stryker medical. He snagged a handfull of each different size plug for me,as well as the high temp green tape,without them I would have rattle canned the frame.
It was my first time powdercoating Anything,so it was a trial and error thing. I thought it was a great idea and the price was right for my pocket book. It wasn't as easy as a spray can..but I dig it..

MRB
07-06-2012, 1:54 PM
Thanks guys for all the input. I found a few other shops here in Chicago that will do it . Prices range from $300-$550.00. All of them have been in business for a while. Maybe the first guy just didn't want to do it.
Mike AKA MRB

cabtherocker
07-06-2012, 5:37 PM
I PC in Reno, NV. Hardtail frame and 12 brackets $150.00 For what some of you are paying it would be cheaper for you to ship it to reno and ship it home...

MRB
07-06-2012, 9:02 PM
next frame I'm calling you. Thank's for the input
MRB

christopher26
07-07-2012, 6:51 PM
Fuck that I just did my XS frame and the guy did my last frame (68 Triumph 650 ) and he did both of my frames for 150 a piece. I'm in NY and if your close the name is gundy powdercoating. And that was blasting it also

bigxrdoug
07-08-2012, 12:17 AM
Yes it is hard to find a good powdercoater,my friend powders all my stuff for beer then makes me help him drink it lol, but the best thing is he is a hot rodder + drag racer so knows what standard of finish you would be expecting and the four bikes I have built I have never had to return anything to redone.

TRUMPNUT
07-08-2012, 12:30 AM
be careful, Not all powder coating is equal...

Powder coating is similar in many ways to a paint job, the preparation,clean handling, baking time and temperature all come in to play, and cheap job is not always a good job.

We just re-did a whole bike that had brand new powder coating done way too thick and heavy, we could not even read the serial numbers, so the owner brought it to us and we had it blasted off and we had everything re powder coated everything correctly.
It was every single black piece of a stock bike ( serial numbered as 1969 Triumph Bonneville #1 ) it cost us $535 to get all that brand new powder coating blasted off and then to correctly powder coat all 51 pieces of this bike.

Yes, I know this is a restoration bike and it's different on a custom framed chopper.

But...When a good powder coat shop does it they plug all the threaded holes and mask off everything correctly, otherwise you spend hours chasing threads and cleaning off areas of unwanted coating. Our shop rate is $90 per hour, so a budget powder coat job ends up costing more.It's not a "restoration" if you powder coat the frame . I used to judge Concours bikes and that is a big nono . Triumphs came from the factory in Enamel .

Torch
07-08-2012, 11:16 AM
It's not a "restoration" if you powder coat the frame . I used to judge Concours bikes and that is a big nono . Triumphs came from the factory in Enamel .
Actually because of quick dry time the frames, tanks, and trim pieces were all painted with lacquers, even the decal applications were covered with hand brushed clear lacquer.
Enamels take forever to dry.

On a correctly restored bike the spokes and hardware would be all soft zinc plated, but I wouldn't advise intentionally using lacquer paint and soft zinc parts today knowing how quickly your expensive "restored" bike would start to deteriorate.

Except for maybe Pebble Beach, I think most "Concour" judged shows today consider the longer lasting urethane base/clear paints, stainless spokes as well as cadmium plated hardware are an acceptable deviation from original cost controlled mass produced manufacturing processes.

The term "Restored" has mutated from it's original definition. Often the competitiveness of a Concours d'Elegance forces restoration of a vehicle to surpass 'mint' condition. Mint condition would be the state of the vehicle when it originally left the factory. Concours-quality cars and bikes often are given upholstery, paint, plating, and mechanical restoration to a standard far exceeding that of the car or bike when it was new.

It would be easy just to shoot that frame with thinned out black lacquer and hang some runs in it to reproduce the original factory frame paint job, however to get the original tank and fender colors in lacquer would be a challenge and then to pinstripe it on top unprotected would also be a waste of striping.

I'm not so into the definition of the term "restoration" that I would intentionally do a low standard factory build job on a customers bike.

As for powder coating frames, because of the electro-static application, powder coating is quicker, better quality, cost less and last longer than a sprayed on liquid paint job,... but because lacquers have a softer shine I use the BK505 low gloss black P/C to emulate the finish of the original back lacquer frame paint on the bikes I "restore".

But I agree with you, when I see a "restored" bike with your typical gloss black powder coated frame, To me, it looks like the whole frame was just dipped in black plastic.

TRUMPNUT
07-08-2012, 4:57 PM
I just have to explain to customers all the time at the shop what a restored bike is and what a stock show bike is .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ABelgFdjA

Here is a factory video of the frames being made and painted . If you fast forward to the 3 min mark you will hear them talk about painting the frames with ENAMEL .

Torch
07-08-2012, 7:27 PM
many lacquer finishes on ceramics and furniture were refereed to as "enameled" or enameling, it refers to a glossy finish , not a type of paint,
Triumph and most all other automotive manufactures used high led cellulose (acrylic) lacquer paint,
early Fords were even hand brushed with black lacquer .
most lacquers were hazardous to your health so they were discontinued in the late 1970's
I still prefer to used lacquer paints (from Arizona) on hot rods and frames and you can buy a new form of EPA friendly lacquer at Pep Boys
enamels were not used because of the slow dry time and the fact that enamels will draw off of pointed parts,and enamels don't stick well without primers,
you can shoot lacquer right on bare metal.

Here is the Wikipedia definition of lacquers use in the automotive world..

Lacquers using acrylic resin, a synthetic polymer, were developed in the 1950s. Acrylic resin is colourless, transparent thermoplastic, obtained by the polymerization of derivatives of acrylic acid. Acrylic is also used in enamel paints, which have the advantage of not needing to be buffed to obtain a shine. Enamels, however, are slow drying. The advantage of acrylic lacquer is its exceptionally fast drying time. The use of lacquers in automobile finishes was discontinued when tougher, more durable, weather- and chemical-resistant two-component polyurethane coatings were developed. The system usually consists of a primer, colour coat and clear topcoat, commonly known as clear coat finishes.

TRUMPNUT
07-08-2012, 7:41 PM
I think I poked the bear ;)

Torch
07-08-2012, 8:20 PM
it's all good.
Sometimes the best way to explain to people what a good restored bike should look like its to show them a good original un-restored bike.
most people will opt for urethane paint and powder coating.

Torch
07-08-2012, 8:26 PM
In those old Triumph films did you also see the engine assemblymen using a "T" bar to tighten the head bolts down?
What about the torque specs listed in the manuals ? where's the torque wrenches?