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originalrumrunner
12-27-2009, 4:24 PM
First, let me point out that this is not to be a technical article nor one that will appeal to some of you, hell, I'm not even sure it belongs on this site, maybe it'll get pulled. But I sure as hell am sure that these thoughts have been bouncing around in my head for quite a while, and I know well enough that once they rattle around that much, you gotta purge them somewhere. So, if you love motorcycles and care about what they mean beyond the engineering and machinery (I'll leave these bits to the professionals), then take a ride for a few paragraphs.

Recently, I have noticed a proliferation of Nazi-inspired bikes in many of the mags I've picked up, and many of the shows I've been to (or pics from shows where I couldn't be at). I'm sure that this is not a new trend, as I can clearly recall flipping through my dad's Easyriders as a kid and
occasionally seeing these types of bikes, but maybe I needed a better perspective on life to comprehend them. Let me say here that I am not old enough to have fought in or seen World War II, yet I am not young or naïve enough to not understand the unfathomable sacrifices made by the soldiers, on both sides, who were there. I am not of any descent that would have any
particular attraction or repulsion to these bikes, but their presence within the motorcycle world (a sort if subculture within a subculture) has absolutely fascinated me, probably not for the same reasons that they fascinate their builders and owners.

Specifically, what is this fascination to include these themes on a bike? I see at least a few possibilities for why culture/symbols from Nazi Germany intersect with those of the motorcycle culture, so I'd like to cover those that I can imagine. By all means if you can think of others, I'd love to hear about them.

1. Actual White supremacy affiliation. I've grown up around cars and bikes and car and bike guys my whole life. I understand the rebellion associated with the culture, and also the underground movement that these symbols are associated with. As a kid, my house would regularly be a stop-over for various motorcycle gang members,including those that associate themselves with Neo-Nazi ideals and white supremacy. That's fine (?), but there are a number of reasons why this almost certainly can't be the reason behind some of these "New-Nazi" rides. The majority I have seen are coming from Japan, certainly not a haven for white supremacy as far as I can tell. One need only look the last couple of year's Mooneyes show,
http://photo.sparetime.jp/071202_1/7398.jpg
http://photo.sparetime.jp/071202_1/7601.jpg

to see a resurgence of these symbols and themes in Japan. Hell, Hot-Dock has an entire line of (unbelievably wll-done) bikes dedicated to the Third Reich (their Nacht-Jaeger line, see them HERE (http://www.hot-dock.co.jp/NachtJaeger/NJ-1-custom-bike/njcustombike.htm).
I also don't think these are actual supremacist groups, as I haven't really seen these new symbolism bikes associated with any one particular group or another. It's not like you're at a show and all of a sudden 6 or 8 Nazi-themed bikes roll up together. To me it appears to be a one-off theme in most cases, put together by individuals with individual motivations (am I being naïve here?).

2. Maybe swastikas, iron crosses, Nazi eagles are the ultimate in crazy, bad-ass, don't f&*k with me symbols, and I can I understand this as well. My dad lost his spleen when he flew over his bike's handlebars and his Maltese cross caught his stomach and opened him up pretty nice. Did he switch over to a round mirror? No. Because certain symbols indicate where you're coming
from. I understand why skulls and flames and counter-culture symbols (Thank you Slayer (http://www.shoptradition.com/store/blog/uploaded_images/slayer_logo-776502.jpg), Deicide (http://bestrockpics.com/data/media/44/Deicide%20wallpaper%20(13).jpg), Iron Maiden (http://www.metal.org/albums/mainencovers/iron_maiden_seventh_son_of_a_seventh_son.jpg), and others) proliferate among a group who purposely attempt to distance themselves from daily life, from status quo, from the everyday drudgery that is life. Hell, what is the point of riding if it isn't this? But really, Nazi symbols as the ultimate expression of that? I never understood this. One of the most bold bikes I have ever seen is Kutty's Desert Rosehttp://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m394/iluvsa66/rosebike2.jpg

Maybe we should re-think this symbol thing. Maybe Bill is like some sort of Buddha, spilling forth his bounty of wisdom, "Rainbows are the new Swazzies". Personally, I think it's hummingbirds.

3. There is a growing sense of nationalism, and these builders/owners have some personal connection to these symbols or what they represent. This may not have anything to do with Swazzies, though. I've seen a ton of beautiful Japanese bikes with the rising sun flag on them that I think most of them are just amazing tributes to the country and it's people and workmanship. I utterly respect every soldier who has fought in WWII, particularly so those Japanese that stood on their own soil and fought literally to the death (it was well known among the Allies that Germans would surrender, the Japanese would not). If you are proud of your
ancestors, and what they stood for, I respect that. But putting a swastika on a Harley built in Japan? Are you fucking bonkers? Help me to follow the logistics here. Harley wouldn't even be a part of the industry had Nazi Germany prevailed, and to be honest, neither would a free Japan (Hitler had elaborate plans to parcel out both the United States and East Asia, you can't knock his ambition). That's not to say a Harley should always have a giant American Flag on them. Even Harleys done right can have a nationalistic theme associated with them. A great example was:
http://www.cycleworld.com/assets/image/2007/Q1/011420071940251349.jpg

the end result of a Biker Build-Off (I know, I know); it was Chica's Captain Japan, which was his take on the 60's long-chop theme done with a Japanese twist.

What is the motivation behind the Nazi builds? Is it really just that Nazi symbols are the ultimate "fuck you" to the world? Really? If this is the case, why not just put "f*&k you" on the bike (I've seen this, the "Your Mother's Name" tank is one of my all-time favorites and fucking hilarious, anyone have a photo of that tank)? But at that point you're just having a laugh, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about giving a little credit where credit is due; make your bike mean something...what about a white spade on a green tank representing the 506th infantry division? Certainly the Allied forces have to be a little more "bad-ass" than the Axis powers, right? I mean, many of us are riding motorcycles manufactured from Allied countries, the majority of us live in countries issued in by the heroics of Allied soldiers, we all are, right now, enjoying the fruits of their labor, are we really this oblivious? I've certainly seen the POW symbol on hundreds of bikes, and while not terribly original, I could not respect more. Even more subtle tributes to veterans can be done with mucho style (check out Brian Allen's Triumph in a back issue of The Horse, so friggin' awesome). If you didn't see it, it was a plain red tank with a black silhouette of an M-16 with helmet on top. I have noticed that most of these "war tribute" bikes are owned by graybeards, and it gets me worried that this sense of pride and honor has somehow been lost on my generation.

I know there's been banter about this on this and other sites, but I see this site as much more than just a place to look for a bike, tech, or enjoy a few back-and-forths between some folks with strong opinions on how a bike should look. What else are we thinking about? Who gives a shit how the rest of the world views it, if we cared we probably wouldn't be on bikes....but don't you want to know what makes us tick? Is this a counter-culture move so extreme that it actually stands against everything that inspires and awes me about the feats of soldiers who fought in the second world war (and all veterans for that matter), or have I lost the motivation behind the builds and symbolism somewhere?

What matters to you enough to put in on your bike and be seen with it? I'd love to hear your opinions and see your ideas. My short time on the Cult has led me to think that the majority of these forums are run, commented on, and posted to by intelligent human beings. Prove me right.

Thanks.

stevanjohnson
12-27-2009, 5:02 PM
i always thought upside down crosses and pentagrams were way cooler than white trash swazi's! but to each his own ha

Revelator
12-27-2009, 5:21 PM
I think some of the nazi stuff you see on bikes is used to display a macho rebellious attitude.
when I was a young kid (around 8 yrs old)I used to watch old war movies & the old Combat tv show & really
looked up to them Germans! they were bad ass.
Yeah I was young & didnt know better. I would never put a swastika on one of my bikes, But I have
been known to put a rebel flag on a bike more than once & Know for a fact that some people
do not dig it. I am not an advocate of slavery, I just love the south & their conservative political stance, &
also do not advocate dictatorships such as the 3rd reiche, But I must say............
I really really loved Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds,
Brilliant movie!

kromsucks
12-27-2009, 8:08 PM
i would never put a swazzie on my bike because my grandpa would roll over in his grave i think people just think the swazzie looks cool

billdozer
12-27-2009, 10:37 PM
As a moderator here, I say we'll let this fly unless it gets out of hand. If it turns into name calling and racists nonsense it'll go straight the junk pile or get deleted all together. Good debate over any subject that is relevant to motorcycles and motorcycle culture is fine by me as long as everyone stays civil about it, and Ryan is right, this is showing up all over the place on motorcycles today.

My personal opinion on the matter is just that, but since Ryan took the time to craft such a well written post I'll try to give it a decent answer. The explanation that the swazi symbol is an old Native American piece, and an ancient symbol in Buddhist and Hindu religions is obviously true. see: link (http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm) That fact (IMHO) is trumped by Hitler's use of the symbol, that transcends all previous use. A red and white 81 might have been used by the ancient Romans, but to everyone else it really only means one thing. So, in my mind if you rock a swazi you are broadcasting one of a couple of possibilities:

1. You are a bad ass WW2 vet who took one off of a dead Jerry and you wear it with pride as an artifact/trophy of war.

2. You support neo-nazi idealism.

3. You are just trendy and would do anything if you thought it was cool and made you look hard.

All rules have exceptions. My good friend Rob and I have been over this many times while chasing the dragon or tipping the bottle. His opinions are different than mine, and he is surely not a racist or hater at all. Idealistic, yes but not fueled by hatred. I'll let him explain his position if he feels the need.

I think you can come up with any rationalization you want for running one. Most people who look at you will come to one of the three conclusions listed above. If you'd like to be confused for one of those then swazis are an easy way to do it. I know it used to be this way with tattoos and still is some places with some people, with conservative folks jumping to conclusions every time they see some one with ink. The difference is, it wasn't people with neck bombs that killed my two uncles or nine plus million Jews.

Me personally, I don't care for racist ideals and don't want to be identified as one. I hate all people equally, black, white, brown, whatever, you all can suck it. I've known skin heads and racists on both sides and like all extremists, they are not who I want to hang with.

I doubt there are many WW2 vets here on the forum, but I'd sure like to hear from some and get their opinion since they are the only one's who've really earned the right. I grew up in a military family, one who lost two uncles in WW2, one at Iwo Jima. To me, running the swazi would be the same as running a Jane Fonda shirt in front of my Viet Nam vet father, a total insult to those who fought and died and suffered the hang over of war for the rest of their lives just because I think the symbol makes me look "cool".

In my experience if a grown man needs to tell the world what a big, scary bad ass he is through things like "Fuck You" vest patches, swazis and such, he generally isn't as rough as he thinks. Rainbows and unicorns are better any day, because that stuff elicits a response from the tough guys and little old ladies alike. If you gotta have a symbol, try one that you have to earn not one you can just poach, join a club, join the military, join a gang, whatever, just earn the right to display whatever it is you wish to broadcast.

As far as running Jap flags on a HD or showing national pride in your heritage I say "who cares". I see guys flying all kinds of pro-American flash all over their jackets while they ride by on a Honda VTX and it just cracks me up. I guess they can still be proud Americans no matter what they drive, but it just seems weird to me. Chica's bike makes perfect sense to me. He's Japanese. Duh. It's like all "personal expression", some is good and some is total horse shit and ultimately it's all up to the owner. Some things go over the top as far as expression goes and I think the swazi qualifies as one of those things.

What say you?

Revelator
12-27-2009, 10:50 PM
got anymore pics of that nazi knuckle with the warbird on da tank? I will try to ignore the insignia's

rustrocket84
12-27-2009, 10:52 PM
I agree with Bill on a lot of what he said. My grandfather was in WWII and was all over north africa and italy. While there he came home with a large Nazi flag that I have inherited, but I do not display for the simple fact that I have friends from all over the world, and I wouldn't want them or anyone else whoever came to my house to think wrongly about me and associate me with a hate group. Right wrong or indifferent it is everyone's choice in what they put onto their bikes, and to me it's just that.. Their bike.

Brandon
12-27-2009, 11:09 PM
My worthless opioin.There is a underground homebuilt society that enjoys building and riding bikes that the average harley rider just doest understand. Somewhere along the way this underground society became the forefront of all your over the counter magazines. Who would of ever thought that you would start seeing rigid pans, shovs, knucks and so on in the pages of american iron magazine just three pages away from the write up of the newest big dog coming out. In the process of this it kinda screwed up the culture. People willing to pay 20g for a rigid shovel on ebay because it had a 60s style lace paint job and a set of invaders now they can put on a vintage 3/4 helmet and fit in with the crowd they used to snub.

This being said some of the builders of these vintage style chops now feel like they have to step up their game to do somthing different. So why not put one of the most hated worldwide symbol on the bikes to freak out the squares. Do you think these magazine will feature any bike covered in the swazis? NOPE. So maybe this is thier way of saying you cant be us now, or they may honestly think they are the baddest dudes on two wheels. Who knows, me personally i like what i like when it comes to bikes if i dont like it i just move on.

Last off you still to this day have guys that ride "real" clubs that work hard to earn thier SS pins, HAMMER pins, and even WAR BIRD pins. These are symbols of honor to them and i dont think they give a shit what peole think about them.

shop102
12-27-2009, 11:24 PM
im with what alot of you have said. i have noticed this "trend" lately as well and all i can say is FAD. i see this as another thing to do to a motorcycle. the problem is that they have ran out of ideas. i think the Japanese do it because alot of there bikes are heavily influenced on 70's americana. the other side of the coin is the true white power guys. thats what they believe......thats how they roll. but, im thinkin the guys that are doing it the most are the pissed off, look at how bad ass i am types.


just my asshole....i mean opinion

lowfiron
12-27-2009, 11:30 PM
I grew up in the SFV in the 50s & 60s and there might have been a couple on bikes that I saw with swastikas, I can't remember. But we talked about it as kids and from that and what I read and heard back then is; it was just to piss people off. That simple.
I'm sure there were Vets that were smoking angry about it, my father was. Even the Wehrmacht helmets were evoking outrage.
I know Big Daddy (Roth) sold the chrome ones along with Maltese crosses back then.
Visualise a biker in the biker uniform and he was dirty, usually smelly and he rode a chopper or cut down Harley that was spotless and shiny with nice chrome and a Swastika on the sissy bar or old bag, that pissed off the good citizen Valley Folk big time. It caused us young Valley glue sniffing model builders some shit from our parents.
So that's where it came from ( I'm not saying the Valley), that period of motorcycle rebellion.
I think people who do it now are trying to repeat that Fuck You feeling!

Danisdead
12-28-2009, 12:23 AM
over six million people died because of what the swastika stood for. on the other hand It is a really cool looking symbol though. there, i said it..what you where all thinking it.

cHiCoD
12-28-2009, 1:10 AM
over six million people died because of what the swastika stood for. on the other hand It is a really cool looking symbol though. there, i said it..what you where all thinking it.

you beat me to it.

if you came to my house and DID NOT know me,you would probably feel uncomfortable with all the shit laying around.

it's great for when solicitors show up though.

wickedblockhead
12-28-2009, 9:17 AM
i'll open my mouth here. honestly i think the whole swastika, iron cross, whatever shit is pretty stupid. i relly dont think it "looks cool" or that it makes you "look hard". to me you look stupid. to me i see that and i think you actually believe that rhetoric and i move on, i dont want to associate with you. thats just me. doesnt mean i dont like you just means means i youre not my type.
as for "earning it" i rock a CoC sticker on my bike, ive never met Jeff or anyone from CoC, i dont belong to his "club", i just like what he does. i support him. i also have a fuck you you fuckin fuck on my bike. im not a badass i just thought it was funny. is it too early for a beer?

Toecutter
12-28-2009, 9:45 AM
I usually don't care what people put on their bikes but I would never ride with somebody sporting the Nazi shit. I've got friends that are Jewish.


"When the real ones come, you'll be the first to go"
-Biafra

framus
12-28-2009, 10:37 AM
Anything that would get by bike vandalized, kicked over, spit on or lit on fire regardless of my personal beliefs doesn't belong.

crkhobbit
12-28-2009, 10:50 AM
I don't put anything on my body or property that I don't support or that I don't feel represents myself in some way, because regardless of how it's meant, you're associating yourself in the minds of others with whatever branding you've put on yourself.

If you put swazis on your bike, you can try to explain it however you want, you look to me like someone who supports what was essentially a massacre of millions of innocent people without good reason.

Maybe you're reasoning for decorating with Nazi symbols is to make people think less of you, hate you, disrespect you and avoid you. In which case, you would probably be successful.

But, if you don't support what was done by the Nazis, and you wear the symbols to affect your image, that is pretty much exactly the dictionary definition of poseur. "a person who attempts to impress others by assuming or affecting a manner, degree of elegance, sentiment, etc., other than his or her true one." In this case you would be attempting to impress others, albeit in a negative way, by assuming association with symbols other than what you truly represent.

A good argument for "tool" could be made as well, "a person manipulated by another for the latter's own ends". If you're promoting a cause and ideology that is not your own, then it sounds to me like you have been manipulated by the promise of being "cool" or "bad ass" to promote someone elses agenda.

This is all my perspective of course. I hope no one thinks of this as name-calling, because in my mind, name-calling is calling names just to try to belittle someone and is rarely based on facts, whereas this is neither of those.

DeesButts
12-28-2009, 10:53 AM
interestingly enough i got an Iron Cross tattooed on my elbow before i even was really involved in the "bike culture" and definitely without a second thought as to the possible racist implications of such a notable symbol. But being an individual without any predjudice whatsoever i must say i don't regret it at all .. it's part of who i am and therefore although many of those symbols are unfortunately associated with "doom & gloom" i myself cannot point the finger and be judgemental. To each his own as they say

excellent post btw .. this man should get a couple hundred miles thrown his way for invoking such good thought

cHiCoD
12-28-2009, 10:57 AM
it's funny to me......because ALOT of the people that don't like all that shit and voice it publicly,are the same people that buy and support little clothing and accesory web shops that have deaths heads,SS bolts,etc.
then the same people want to bitch about it later,.
fucking hypocrits.
this is not pointed to anyone here specifically,but you know who you are i'm sure.
get over it.
or maybe we can start a thread for "pc catalogs",like LL. Bean or some shit.

xoxo
Chico

ps.
junkpile.

TemeculaTerry
12-28-2009, 11:33 AM
Im reading all these posts and trying to gather my thoughts to type out onto my Chinese made computer, made by the very same people that were massacred by the millions by Japanese soldiers during and before WWII (yes I have a close tie within the Chinese community) but Japper bikes are still my favorite, as I literally drive to work in my Audi as my wife in her Mercedes everyday, both being German Nazi companies before and during WWII, working on my 73' BMW, just a hopped up 500 from the traditional WWII pre r series bikes and my own father installing in me while growing up how Germans are the best, smartest and logically in his mind most handsome people in the world, always reminding me in the German spoken language that I am part Mexican and will never be a true Whitehurst just puts me at odds with anything other than what the world truly is, and that I will leave to your own imaginations to come to your own conclusion of what that is.

Alright, back to the Nazi shit. Personally, knowing Germans and Northern Europeans alike that were either German soldiers or civilians all have one thing to say - they were never Nazi's - big difference and they make a point of it, they were German patriots fighting for their country, some proud others were made, not much different than how many Americans feel to this day. I myself being more than half German I would NEVER rock a Nazi symbol, fuck nazi shit and everything it stands for. If it means fuck you then I say fuck you back for my Jewish friends, the German people and family and friends that fought their asses off during WWII.
As for the war bird, this is pre WWII, an ancient German symbol is the golden Eagle, something proud for Germans to associate with due to it being a part of their heritage and the symbol the first kingdom that united the tribes of Germany.
I guess Im guilty when it comes to the love of the confederate flag, mind you I dont ever sport it and wont but I do like it just for the same reasons stated earlier on another post as well having family members whom were confederate American patriots fighting for what they believed to be right. Usually ignorance plays the part of the prejudice of American rebel flag due to the ignorance of thinking it was a symbol of oppression for the early black slaves. Short rant - Confederate states were NOT fighting to keep slavery, only one state out of all the confederate states actually were dependant on the slave trade due to the high yield of cotton crops and low overhead. The war was fought to keep the states independent and the federal government out of commission, the Northern states did not have any use for a free black man so they needed to educated them in order to work in the Northern factories to operate machinery. Furthermore, if truly the civil war was fought over slavery then I would like to ask the question why the African American people did not have equal rights until the 60's...Rant Over - lol

In conclusion of my stupid ass rant of a post - many of us here are Americans and do have the right to sport anything that we want, freedom comes in absolutely every color of the rainbow and just because one doesnt agree with another of what this freedom should entail, we must remember most of us have had family members and dear friends fighting for this freedom at one time or another. To agree or disagree of what this freedom may or may not be it is still freedom and that is what we must all remember.

crkhobbit
12-28-2009, 11:38 AM
There is a tremendous difference between driving a car made by a repentant country, and sporting the logos used to represent the face of death for an entire race of people.

Homebrew
12-28-2009, 11:39 AM
you beat me to it.

if you came to my house and DID NOT know me,you would probably feel uncomfortable with all the shit laying around.

it's great for when solicitors show up though.


If you answer the door looking like your avitar I would be surprised you have soilcitors. HAHAHAHA

ditto
12-28-2009, 12:15 PM
what time is it:

wickedblockhead
12-28-2009, 12:21 PM
looks like hes breakdancing

cHiCoD
12-28-2009, 12:30 PM
If you answer the door looking like your avitar I would be surprised you have soilcitors. HAHAHAHA

i actually have a couple times.

GreaserMike
12-28-2009, 12:35 PM
i actually have a couple times.

Actually Chico is forced to keep that mask on via court order. If solicitors knew what was under it they'd be thankful.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f171/greaser_mike/chicod1.jpg

cHiCoD
12-28-2009, 12:50 PM
Actually Chico is forced to keep that mask on via court order. If solicitors knew what was under it they'd be thankful.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f171/greaser_mike/chicod1.jpg

that is rad!

but not as rad as the photo i got from your families Christmas party.
we are all stoked that you liked the gift from your Aunt.
LOL!

http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp286/cacaface/funny-pictures-humor-tigger-costume.png

GreaserMike
12-28-2009, 12:53 PM
that's all kinds of wrong.

cHiCoD
12-28-2009, 1:00 PM
i know,but i couldn't help it. you look so happy!
lol!
xoxo
Chico

GreaserMike
12-28-2009, 1:09 PM
The board is lucky I didn't post the OTHER photo of you ya fugly mongrel.

cHiCoD
12-28-2009, 1:10 PM
hahaha!
...uh oh.

originalrumrunner
12-28-2009, 3:18 PM
In conclusion of my stupid ass rant of a post - many of us here are Americans and do have the right to sport anything that we want, freedom comes in absolutely every color of the rainbow and just because one doesnt agree with another of what this freedom should entail, we must remember most of us have had family members and dear friends fighting for this freedom at one time or another. To agree or disagree of what this freedom may or may not be it is still freedom and that is what we must all remember.

Point well taken here. To look at the extreme case, I think the active ban of swastikas and other Nazi symbols practiced in modern-day Germany is one of the worst decisions ever. Like what, that whole part of history we'll just forget about at some point? And you should always have the right to be proud of your country's heritage. The Nazi party may have been associated with the evils of mankind, but there were many noble Nazi officers that never believed in the cause and simply fought for their country as part of their duty to family and country. I think there are plenty of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan that would tell you similar stories about their experience.

Confederate flag? Same issue applies, I know many proud southerners who's heritage lies in never backing down, fighting proud in the Civil War for their way of life, despite the connotations of slavery that the flag implies. The problem is, when you rock the flag, idiots don't look beyond the basic symbolism of the flag itself. That's why you have to get clever with the symbols. There are plenty of Southern images that evoke pride without the prejudice. How about the Bonnie Blue?
http://goodoldrebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bonnieblueflag.jpg
Wikipedia that shit. If you have a computer or a library card, there's no excuse for rocking a symbol that may not represent waht you actually want it to....

TemeculaTerry
12-28-2009, 3:56 PM
There is a tremendous difference between driving a car made by a repentant country, and sporting the logos used to represent the face of death for an entire race of people.

I agree, but I dont think you get what I was going for...

lowfiron
12-28-2009, 10:06 PM
Here's a decent link about cross's mostly the Iron and Maltese Cross. I thought the iron cross was a straight armed cross and the Maltese was the splayed arm cross but I'm wrong.

http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/gms/sinister.htm

There is a "Biker" site that explains these things but I thought this was a little more legit.

Here's Wiki's take on the Swastika

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Then Wiki's take on the Confederate flag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

They are all interesting. Have you ever seen that Hong Kong Kung Fu movie with the big Buddhist monk that throws the skilsaw blades attached to a chain? He wears a big Swastika on his chest. The Swastika represents the Wheel of Dharma. It's a great movie.

L7Josh
12-28-2009, 11:54 PM
The word swastika is derived from the Sanskrit word svastika (in Devanagari स्वस्तिक), meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. The modern equivalent to the term would be a talisman. It is composed of su- (cognate with Greek ευ-, eu-), meaning "good, well" and asti, a verbal abstract to the root as "to be" (cognate with the Romance copula, coming ultimately from the Proto-Indo-European root *h1es-); svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka either forms a diminutive or intensifies the verbal meaning, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which is associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word in this sense is first used in the Harivamsa. Monier-Williams notes that the shape of the symbol represents a monogram or interlacing of the letters of the word svasti written in Ashokan characters.[2]
The Hindu Sanskrit term has been in use in English since 1871, replacing gammadion (from Greek γαμμάδιον). Alternative historical English spellings of the Sanskrit word include suastika, swastica and svastica.
Alternative names for the shape are:
crooked cross, hook cross (German: Hakenkreuz);
cross cramponned, ~nnée, or ~nny (in heraldry), as each arm resembles a crampon or angle-iron (German: Winkelmaßkreuz)
double cross, by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, on the April 6, 1941 edition of his radio program The Catholic Hour, not only comparing the Cross of Christ with the swastika, but also implying that siding with fascism was a "double-crossing" of Christianity
fylfot, possibly meaning "four feet", chiefly in heraldry and architecture (See fylfot for a discussion of the etymology)
gammadion, tetragammadion (Greek: τέτραγαμμάδιον), or cross gammadion (Latin: crux gammata; French: croix gammée), as each arm resembles the Greek letter Γ (gamma)
sun wheel, a name also used as a synonym for the sun cross[citation needed]
tetraskelion (Greek: τετρασκέλιον), "four legged", especially when composed of four conjoined legs (compare triskelion (Greek: τρισκέλιον))
Mundilfari an Old Norse term has been associated in modern literature with the swastika.[3]
Thor's hammer, from its supposed association with Thor, the Norse god of the weather, but this may be a misappropriation of a name that properly belongs to a Y-shaped or T-shaped symbol.[4] The swastika shape appears in Icelandic grimoires wherein it is named Þórshamar.[citation needed] Also there have also been interpretations associating it with a spear (the weapon of Odin) that modern scholars have associated on runestones such as the Snoldelev Stone.
The Tibetan swastika is known as nor bu bzhi -khyil, or quadruple body symbol,[citation needed] defined in Unicode at codepoint U+0FCC ࿌.
The Buddhist sign was standardised as a Chinese character 卍 (pinyin wàn), and as such entered Japanese, where the symbol is called 卍字 (manji)
Geometrically, the Nazi swastika can be regarded as (the area inside of) an irregular icosagon or 20-sided polygon. The proportions of it were fixed based on a 5x5 diagonal grid.[5]
Characteristic is the 90° rotational symmetry and chirality, hence the absence of reflectional symmetry, and the existence of two versions of swastikas that are each other's mirror image.
The mirror-image forms are often described as:
clockwise and counterclockwise;
left-facing and right-facing;
left-hand and right-hand.
"Left-facing" and "right-facing" are used mostly consistently referring to the upper arm of an upright swastika facing either to the viewer's left (卍) or right (卐). The other two descriptions are ambiguous as it is unclear whether they refer to the arms as leading or being dragged or whether their bending is viewed outward or inward. However, "clockwise" usually refers to the "right-facing" swastika. The terms are used inconsistently (sometimes even by the same writer), which is confusing and may obfuscate an important point, that the rotation of the swastika may have symbolic relevance, although little is known about this symbolic relevance. Less ambiguous terms might be "clockwise-pointing" and "counterclockwise-pointing."
Nazi ensigns had a through and through image, so both versions were present, one on each side, but the Nazi flag on land was right-facing on both sides and at a 45° rotation.[6]
The name "sauwastika" is sometimes given to the left-facing form of the swastika (卍).[7]
The ubiquity of the swastika symbol is easily explained by its being a very simple shape that will arise independently in any basket-weaving society. The swastika is a repeating design, created by the edges of the reeds in a square basket-weave. Other theories attempt to establish a connection via cultural diffusion or an explanation along the lines of Carl Jung's collective unconscious.
The genesis of the swastika symbol is often treated in conjunction with cross symbols in general, such as the "sun wheel" of Bronze Age religion.
Another explanation is suggested by Carl Sagan in his book Comet. Sagan reproduces an ancient Chinese manuscript (the Book of Silk) that shows comet tail varieties: most are variations on simple comet tails, but the last shows the comet nucleus with four bent arms extending from it, recalling a swastika. Sagan suggests that in antiquity a comet could have approached so close to Earth that the jets of gas streaming from it, bent by the comet's rotation, became visible, leading to the adoption of the swastika as a symbol across the world.[8]
In Life's Other Secret, Ian Stewart suggests the ubiquitous swastika pattern arises when parallel waves of neural activity sweep across the visual cortex during states of altered consciousness, producing a swirling swastika-like image, due to the way quadrants in the field of vision are mapped to opposite areas in the brain.[9]
Alexander Cunningham rejected any connection of the Indian swastika symbol with sun-worship, and suggested that the shape arose from a combination of Brahmi characters abbreviating the word su-astí.[10]
In the Western world, the symbol experienced a resurgence following the archaeological work in the late 19th century of Heinrich Schliemann, who discovered the symbol in the site of ancient Troy and associated it with the ancient migrations of Proto-Indo-Europeans. He connected it with similar shapes found on ancient pots in Germany, and theorized that the swastika was a "significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors", linking Germanic, Greek and Indo-Iranian cultures.[43][44] By the early 20th century, it was used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and success.
The work of Schliemann soon became intertwined with the völkisch movements, for which the swastika was a symbol of the "Aryan race", a concept that came to be equated by theorists such as Alfred Rosenberg with a Nordic master race originating in northern Europe. Since its adoption by the National Socialist German Worker's Party of Adolf Hitler, the swastika has been associated with Nazism, fascism, racism (white supremacy), the Axis powers in World War II, and the Holocaust in much of the West. The swastika remains a core symbol of Neo-Nazi groups, and is used regularly by activist groups to signify their opinion of supposed Nazi-like behavior of organizations and individuals they oppose.
The swastikas on the Finnish Order of the White Rose designed in 1918 by Akseli Gallen-Kallela remained in use until 1963. The Finnish Order of the Cross of Liberty and the Flag of the President of Finland still show a swastika design: the Cross of Liberty.[45]
The Benedictine choir school at Lambach Abbey, Upper Austria, which Hitler attended for several months as a boy, had a swastika chiseled into the monastery portal and also the wall above the spring grotto in the courtyard by 1868. Their origin was the personal coat of arms of Abbot Theoderich Hagn of the monastery in Lambach, which bore a golden swastika with slanted points on a blue field.[46] The Lambach swastika is probably of Medieval origin. The Lambach depiction, in the Hindu style, did not inspire Hitler to use the symbol, as the Nazi Party's use of it stems from the Thule Society and previous occult societies.

L7Josh
12-28-2009, 11:56 PM
people who use swazis might be supporting pre 1963 Finnish air force units also


GO FINLAND!!

originalrumrunner
12-29-2009, 12:17 AM
people who use swazis might be supporting pre 1963 Finnish air force units also


GO FINLAND!!

Okay,
I think it's pretty unfortunate for the Finnish air force pre-1963 and for all the basket-weaving cultures that may have adopted the Swastika as a symbol of good luck that Hitler adopted a very similar symbol for his army. I would love to see more, or any, Swazis on bikes if they looked like this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PkvqLs4Gu2g/SvJ8Mkh5dVI/AAAAAAAAF9A/EtbrW1_irXw/s400/swastika.giff

But, if you'll agree with me, most of the bikes I've seen don't really have this vibe. Many of them also happen to adopt the same black, red, and white coloring that Nazis used as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not even close to anti-Swazi, not even if you do mean it in the most hateful of ways, I'm just trying to understand why there's a connection to the symbol.

Pantsbeer
12-29-2009, 12:33 AM
Ok so after reading everything I decided to add my own two cents. I personally hate seeing all the nazi shit in the bike community. I understand that it's a "fuck you" to the rest of society and to piss off normal people but that means shit to me. To me it's still racist symbols. I personally cant back that. I was raised around a very diverse family. My little sister is half mexican and I was raised oround her dads family for years, and one of my aunts is korean and another is from argentina. I couldnt imagine wearing anything like that around them and telling them "oh no it's just to piss people off I'm not really racist". I get mad enough defending the difference from a traditional skinhead(a real skinhead) and a bonehead nazi skin. I'm not even a skinhead I just have friends that are. I love death machines product but half of the stuff I wouldnt wear because they either have ss bolts or a death head on it. I have people thinking I'm a bonehead at some shows I go to just because I'm covered in tattoos including my whole head and I have a beard with a shaved head. I love bikes but I come from the punk/hardcore scene first and we dont tolerate people showing up at shows with any kinda nazi shit on them/ tattooed. That might sound fucked to some but it's somthing that I feel shouldnt be tolerated. It kinda bums me out how much of that stuff is showing up in this culture more and more. To each there own I guess I just wouldnt want to hang out with you if your the type of person that likes to rock that stuff. I'm not some big important person so you probably dont care anyway. This is just how I feel on the subject and it's something I have alot of strong feelings about so if you dont like what I have to say thats fine I just wanted to throw my thoughts into the thread.

Toecutterp
12-29-2009, 1:23 AM
Their are many symbols that offend people. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Maybe the sickle and hammer could be the new swastika. I think of old 60's bikers sticking it to the man, not genocide. I have the right to interpret anyway i want. I do not agree with Nazis new nazis racism ect. I support people for who they are not what they are. Lets put it this way i love building Harleys but i hate Harley Davison. For the 6 years it flew it destroyed hundreds of years it wasn't offensive. The US army used it for a division in world war 1.

cHiCoD
12-29-2009, 1:25 AM
I'm not some big important person so you probably dont care anyway.

you are important to me.
i just didn't want you to feel alone out there.
:)

Pantsbeer
12-29-2009, 2:30 AM
you are important to me.
i just didn't want you to feel alone out there.
:)

Hahahaha thanks man. Hey Toecutter I understand judging people for who they are but if your racist it is part of who you are a big part. I guess not growing up around bikers makes it harder for me to look the other way but thats fine with me. I also understand that that symbol wasnt always used as a symbol for hate but I can almost guarantee that the majority of people that rock the swazi on there bike are not using it as a symbol for buddhism or as a piece symbol. A swazi is usually(not always) paired with ss bolts as well on bikes and helmets. You cant defend that one and tell me its was a symbol of .........that was/is a nazi sybol. Put whatever you want on your bike cause it's yours and thats your right but I just wont back it and probably wont talk to ya either based on that. But like I said I'm nobody so you probably wont care if I talk to ya or not. It's part of my core and my belief system. I mean I cant say for sure that I wouldnt talk to someone and get to know them but having some of those symbols on you or your bike makes me hesitant to want to talk to someone like that. I just realised this may sound all dirrected at toecutter but it's not just my opinion on what everyone has said so far.

GreaserMike
12-29-2009, 7:45 AM
you are important to me.
i just didn't want you to feel alone out there.
:)

Chico, I'm pretty sure he'd rather be alone. Why don't you go build something. This is chop cult not the special olympics.

Zooligan
12-29-2009, 8:30 AM
I usually don't care what people put on their bikes but I would never ride with somebody sporting the Nazi shit. I've got friends that are Jewish.

My mom's side of the family is Jewish, and I still wouldn't ride a Star of David/Isreali flag-themed bike (Since I'm not a 7-foot tall Hassidic rabbi in a Mel Brooks-esqe send up of Quinten Tarantino flicks)

I think themes are kinda.. well.. dumb. My bike(s) won't be themed, but that doesn't mean yours shouldn't be.

Z

rustrocket84
12-29-2009, 4:59 PM
I'm with pants on this almost whole heartedly. I'm mexican and german and my half sister is german. She was raised by my dad, mexican, and grew up with my mexican side of the family. Long story short something changed in her life and she started hanging out with some simple-minded people and got busted for hate crimes. Did 3 years in prison, and came out still confused. She's doing well now, but part of her is still stuck in the simple mindedness of hate. I am not saying anything negative towards anybody's beliefs, but I personally think that hate based upon race or anything else like that is being simple minded.

STANDARD
12-29-2009, 6:21 PM
i sit back and read all this shit...
here goes
you are who you are ...if you feel the need to rock all your hate items then go for it

if you are the guy that is cool with everyone...so be it

no matter what you have on or are supporting if your cool to me face value we're cool, if not...then hey i say hammer down!

its all about freedom... you want to wear or put these symbols on your scoot so be it! its not my bike so i dont care. if you offend someone be prepared to deal with it.



can we just ride now!

and quit worrying about what makes people unhappy.... I HATE THE FUCKing WORLD ...there i said it!

Toecutterp
12-29-2009, 6:25 PM
Did any of you guys buy Inglorious bastards. Their is a swastika right on the cover, is that any different ? Love too hear this one. I love everyone lets hug ( 0 )

cHiCoD
12-29-2009, 6:44 PM
i sit back and read all this shit...
here goes
you are who you are ...if you feel the need to rock all your hate items then go for it

if you are the guy that is cool with everyone...so be it

no matter what you have on or are supporting if your cool to me face value we're cool, if not...then hey i say hammer down!

its all about freedom... you want to wear or put these symbols on your scoot so be it! its not my bike so i dont care. if you offend someone be prepared to deal with it.



can we just ride now!

and quit worrying about what makes people unhappy.... I HATE THE FUCKing WORLD ...there i said it!

perfection.
i completely agree.

Pantsbeer
12-29-2009, 6:55 PM
Did any of you guys buy Inglorious bastards. Their is a swastika right on the cover, is that any different ? Love too hear this one. I love everyone lets hug ( 0 )

Dude thats 100% different. Thats a movie about jews killing nazis in ww2. I'm not gonna display the cover proudly to piss someone off or cause I'm racist. White power people wouldnt even like that movie because the jewish people overcome the nazis. How in the hell is buying that movie even remotely close to the same thing as rocking a swazi on your bike to piss people off. I'm all for pissing people off but that is a bullshit way to piss people off. I was raise a Jehovahs Witness and even though it's not as publicized as much as the jews were the jehovahs witnesses were persacuted just as much in concintration camps as the jews were. Thats a symbol of hate now and not a symbol to just get someone riled up. If you want to use the it was a symbol of piece before excuse well then that goes against the pissing people off reason. It's funny to me how people make excuses why things that are not ok to do are ok to do.No matter what the reason you put that shit on your bike it is a symbol of hate and will always be.

Toecutterp
12-29-2009, 7:36 PM
The point is the swastika is on it. Like i said take it as you want. You want to say that one is ok because the movie is about killing people. The swastika on the cover is the one that stands for hate. Last i checked they made that movie to make money. They are selling a swastika and people are buying it. Cut it out lay it on the table see what happens. Does anyone get what i'm trying too say. Lets face it Nazis tryed too kill every one. You could go on for days. If i had a sickle and hammer on my bike would anyone care no because the media didn't blow up what stalin did in Russia. I don't care. I'm not defending anything here everybodys fucked in one way or another me i'm fucked. _,,,/ hang loose bros. My grampa gave me a nazi flag when i was 8. He took it from a base in Germany during WWII. I guess thats why i don't get shocked by the swastika

Speedfiend
12-29-2009, 7:53 PM
I'm not offended by a swazzi, I'm not offended by much really. I'd never run one though. I am getting a little older. I turned 30 this year, and I quit putting Bad Religon stickers on my cars/trucks/bikes. I'd been doing it since I was 15, just to piss off the squares. kinda juvenille, huh? Like using swazzis...maybe?

wickedblockhead
12-29-2009, 8:00 PM
mmmm DeadGuy ale is delicious!

Soames
12-29-2009, 8:29 PM
Some people use the swastika to show their support of racists ideals, some folks just put it on their bikes to say FTW....whatever. I agree with another poster, you can try and explain it away but, thanks to Hitler, people associate the swastika with wp and racism. If you sport nazi insignias on your bike, people will assume the worst regardless of your intentions. If that's you then roll with it...I could give two sh*ts either way.

Everybody is too damn sensitive about racism and that's why it's still the big f'n elephant in the room. I'm glad we all don't look the same. If you were all as ugly as me, we would really be up shits creek....and pornos would be 2 minutes long featuring a short-di*k sword fight!

I'm gonna go turn some f'n wrenches now since my sputtering POS almost left me on the f'n highway this evening. I hate that feeling....

northeasteric
12-29-2009, 8:41 PM
no need for a 10 paragraph rant, but c'mon...

if you're running some nazi shit what are you gonna do when big old leroy and his cousins are asking you why you got that shit on your bike?

you gonna duck and dive or hold it down?

two nazi's holding hands with a flying penis on your tank, that's a different story.

originalrumrunner
12-29-2009, 8:46 PM
The point is the swastika is on it. Like i said take it as you want. You want to say that one is ok because the movie is about killing people. The swastika on the cover is the one that stands for hate. Last i checked they made that movie to make money. They are selling a swastika and people are buying it. Cut it out lay it on the table see what happens. Does anyone get what i'm trying too say. Lets face it Nazis tryed too kill every one. You could go on for days. If i had a sickle and hammer on my bike would anyone care no because the media didn't blow up what stalin did in Russia. I don't care. I'm not defending anything here everybodys fucked in one way or another me i'm fucked. _,,,/ hang loose bros. My grampa gave me a nazi flag when i was 8. He took it from a base in Germany during WWII. I guess thats why i don't get shocked by the swastika

Toecutter,
I understand your point. Inglorious Bastards was about Nazis, so it has a Nazi symbol on the front of it. Same as a Nazi documentary might have a Swazzi on it. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A SWAZZI on something if that's what that something is about. I was just interested as to whether the bikes I see with Nazi themes are really all about Nazi pride. Forget the Swazzi, that goes for any symbol. One thing that came out of this discussion is the idea that you should have to earn the right to or at least be able to explain symbols that you rock. I think that's a universal in the world, if you rock a symbol you don't know anything about or can't explain, you end up looking like a douche. I have gay fucking birds all of over my bike, and plenty of people have asked, "what the fuck with the birds?" Well, I have a story that in short form is about a half an hour long about why I have birds all over my bike, and I've definitely earned the right to rock 'em.

I'm not shocked when I see a Swazzi, and I never wanted to come off as some pansy that's offended by what other people are doing. I just wanted to get it a little more. I know why guys rock flames, skulls, upside-down Harley logos, "FUCK YOU" taillights. There's some history in the chopper world, and there's nobody that respects that more than me. I also don't think you need to really spend days thinking out placing a sticker or an iron cross patch on your jacket. I'm talking more about the well though-out, themed Nazi symbols on bikes; I sort of lose the translation once we get into fully-themed Reich symbols put on an American bike by a Japanese builder.

Folks maybe are getting sick of this topic, I agree, ridin' is always better than thinkin', but sometimes my mind wanders to these types if questions. Also, Mad Max is the greatest movie ever.

Pantsbeer
12-29-2009, 8:49 PM
I understand that Tarantino made that movie and its making money yes. That doesnt mean there selling swazis. You say the one on the cover stands for hate but the one on your bike stands for the same thing. If your making iron eagles holding a swazi that stands for hate. Plain and simple you cant agrgue that. You cant tell me that it's a symbol of peace or your buddhist because thats a nazi symbol. Like whats been said before it's one thing if you fought against nazis and took something off them as a kinda souvenir for risking your life for your country, but its different when your just some guy sticking it to the man. If my grandpa had given me something like that I would take it and keep it with pride. I wouldnt display it on my wall but I would be proud of my grandpa. I understand that what Stalin did isnt/wasnt publisized as much but maybe thats because stalin wasnt trying to make a superior race worldwide by killing all other race and religions and by raising all white non jewish babies to serve under his rule. Stalin may have been an evil man but the evil that hitler and his army introduced into the world was way worse. It doesnt matter whether people would have a problem with something else it doesnt make it ok sport that shit.

Pantsbeer
12-29-2009, 9:00 PM
Everybody is too damn sensitive about racism

I can understand maybe if this was some silly topic that people get to worked up on but really? It's somthing that shouldnt be taken lightly. Do some research on the subject. Racism is a big fucking deal and people havent been fighting against it for years and years. It's really not a subject to tell someone there being to sensitive about it's a big deal and people have been killed over this.

cHiCoD
12-29-2009, 9:11 PM
Chico, I'm pretty sure he'd rather be alone. Why don't you go build something. This is chop cult not the special olympics.

i know it's not the special olympics,so why are you wearing a helmet in your avatar?

and you know what i'm building honky.....i'm building an ARK.
is that fitting for this thread?

lol!

good talking to you tonight......asshole.

xoxo,
Chico

Duncan44
12-29-2009, 9:15 PM
it's funny to me......because ALOT of the people that don't like all that shit and voice it publicly,are the same people that buy and support little clothing and accesory web shops that have deaths heads,SS bolts,etc.
then the same people want to bitch about it later,.
fucking hypocrits.
this is not pointed to anyone here specifically,but you know who you are i'm sure.
get over it.
or maybe we can start a thread for "pc catalogs",like LL. Bean or some shit.

xoxo
Chico

ps.
junkpile.

Very True, well put. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-EpvRvaki-E&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-EpvRvaki-E&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Toecutterp
12-29-2009, 9:20 PM
It's a given that the Nazi 3rd reich is the biggest evil this earth has seen. I hate nazis and Illinois nazis too. I do not agree with any racism at all ether. When i think of swastikas i think of a dirty bikers in the 60's messing with the civilians. I give up everybody is right. It's all marketing in one way or another. Love peace kisses bunnies

cHiCoD
12-29-2009, 9:23 PM
i love bunnies.....dirty bunnies.

kromsucks
12-29-2009, 9:39 PM
i like turtles

Marco
12-29-2009, 9:41 PM
Its a Symbol...Just like a peace sign is a symbol, but how many of you are aware of the fact, a peace sign is an upside down cross with broken arms. Originally used in Nero's despise of Christians, when they hung St. Peter they did it on an upside down cross with broken arms. Nobodys bitchin or debating that are they? Me personally, would'nt run or display a Swazi...I know some tough Jews that wont give you a minute to explain your fascination before putting out ya lights. Some use the symbol for shock value and others simply for creative enthusiasm. Your always gonna rub someone the wrong way no matter what ya rock Rainbows or Swazi's...I just say if your goin to run anything that can be considered offensive be prepared to defend it..
Am I offended by the Swazi? NO, I just dont need anyone thinkin I idolize a funny mustached kraut that took a self inflicted round to the chin...

dannyb
12-29-2009, 9:44 PM
A lot of good points so far, but i break it down like this:

If you have a swazi/nazi shit on your bike because you hate everyone thats not Aryan....your a racist duche

If you have a swazi/nazi shit on your bike becuase its "cool" or "trendy" or your trying to "stick it to the sqares"....your a simple douche.

onigoroshi
12-29-2009, 11:05 PM
this thread proves once again that americans know fuck-all about WWII, either in the pacific or in europe.

Pantsbeer
12-29-2009, 11:37 PM
this thread proves once again that americans know fuck-all about WWII, either in the pacific or in europe.

Hows that? Explain cause I've watched alot of documentaries about Hitler and the the third reich. I'm no expert but I know more then the average asshole. I like to consider it knowing your enemy. But I would like to know what you think were getting wrong about ww2.

Toecutterp
12-29-2009, 11:37 PM
I know this we FUCKING WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what we do know what happend. Why the hell do you think we are talking about the meaning of a symbol and what it stood for. I know what happened in the pacific your country bombed a USN base and my great uncle died in the battle of midway. Man you just turned this into a whole new deal. Sit back get a beer and lets see what happens now. Plus the discovery channel has a WWII series in HD. Everybody knows HD makes you smarter

originalrumrunner
12-30-2009, 12:02 AM
I'm pretty happy we got 7 pages of posts, but you don't have to be Nostradamus to see where this is headed...

I also understand the "Who cares if you rock a Swazi, just ride and shut up!" attitude, but then I'd argue you should just ignore this post, right? I specifically stated the rationale behind the post, for anybody that thinks beyond just riding and wrenching. If you don't give a "shit" and you still post, guess what? You give a shit.

Honestly, there's been more creative/intelligent posts than not here, so I think I was right in my assessment of the members. Thanks guys.

Toecutterp
12-30-2009, 12:07 AM
This is my last post

kingdeadbeat
12-30-2009, 12:18 AM
If you guys want to be a real hard ass, just stencil a Roman helmet dead center on your tank......
aren't they the ones who killed Jesus? everyone loves that dude, so I'm sure you'd piss off the most people that way.

-swazis look cool, I don't think I'll run one anytime soon......after I take roids maybe?
-Twisted coathangers look gay, but represent home abortion, that might be neat?
- Or just put Obama's black ass on your bike....alot of people hate him
-maybe glue a credit card to your tank....we all hate debt!!!


Bikes are cool, and are an iconic symbol of bad-assery, swazi or not, you can exude cool if you got that kinda swagger...or you can show up all bro looking on a bagger and still look gay. Rock it if you want, or don't. It most likely won't be the deciding factor of how cool you are.

MadDog
12-30-2009, 12:41 AM
As we are abundantly aware, the swastika has a rich history. I am irritated that Hitler twisted the symbol into a symbol of hatred. It is also irritating when ignorant people continue to promulgate the hatred version of the swastika.

Admittedly, I am the third generation pissed off at the Nazis for killing almost my entire family. My grandparents narrowly escaped the holocaust... but their brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, parents, cousins and friends were mostly raped, tortured, and killed. My grandpa illegally immigrated to the US and met my grandma (also an immigrant). Eventually I came along. No thanks to Hitler and the rest of the the fucking assholes on his team.

Just remember while you are "freaking out the squares" that you can do it in a way that aims at them directly, or you can do it in a way that aims hatred at me and my heritage. There are many options besides swastikas. Here are a few listed for your convenience:

Homo-erotic imagery. Nothing freaks out squares like gay porn.
Beastiality. Sex again, but it works.
Flag burning, whichever country you are in. Pisses people off every time.
Bright pink and rhinestones.
Anti-corporate imagery. Squares love corporations.
Real dead livestock parts. Especially if they smell.
Large graphic images of genitalia. I know, more sex, but it does the trick.
Curse words.
Grungy, greasy, old, loud, anything.
Homemade weapons that are easily accessible, like a wooden bat with nails sticking out of it.
Feces.

There are a lot of options available. Be creative.

I have thought about doing something using traditional Hindu symbolism with the six pointed star, swastika, and aum. Reclaiming symbols might shake up some folks. If you are going to freak folks out, you might as well freak them out in a potentially worthwhile direction.

In the mean time, if you have nazi shit on your bike and someone pisses in your petrol, spits on your bike, or lights it on fire, remember how cool you look sporting hatred symbols.

I have nothing against historically accurate reproductions, it is the trying to look cool by posing as a piece of shit douche bag that bothers me. But hey, whatever floats your goat.

MadDog
12-30-2009, 12:50 AM
... you don't have to be Nostradamus to see where this is headed...



If you guys want to be a real hard ass, just stencil a Roman helmet dead center on your tank......
aren't they the ones who killed Jesus? everyone loves that dude, so I'm sure you'd piss off the most people that way.

-swazis look cool, I don't think I'll run one anytime soon......after I take roids maybe?
-Twisted coathangers look gay, but represent home abortion, that might be neat?
- Or just put Obama's black ass on your bike....alot of people hate him
-maybe glue a credit card to your tank....we all hate debt!!!


Bikes are cool, and are an iconic symbol of bad-assery, swazi or not, you can exude cool if you got that kinda swagger...or you can show up all bro looking on a bagger and still look gay. Rock it if you want, or don't. It most likely won't be the deciding factor of how cool you are.


While I was typing my list, you posted yours. I have to agree with everything you wrote, especially the last paragraph.

NeoDutch
12-30-2009, 3:44 AM
Swastika Surfboards from the 20's.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VGOsMKwzFQM/StIfosUnkwI/AAAAAAAAAls/xThy4JcGcTg/s1600/brd%2Bcopy.jpg

MsHeather
12-30-2009, 8:11 AM
Not that anyone actually cares, but here's my two cents.

As previously stated the swastika was originally a symbol of peace and love; you will still see it widely used in countries such as India with that intent.

For most the swastika is seen as a symbol that represents hate, and for that we can thank Nazi Germany.

Either way it takes balls (imo) to rock that symbol, douche or not. No matter what the meaning behind the symbol to the particular person who displays it, it is going to evoke a reaction, mostly negative. If a person is willing to take on that responsibility, more power to them.

Although I will add this, for those who are uneducated about the symbol and don it in support of Nazi Germany, get a clue, read a few books and learn some history. I would don a swazi in support of it's true meaning, but NEVER in support of the holocaust. That era and the autrocities that occurred make me want to vomit. I would tattoo a fuck you accross my forehead first, and I am pretty sure that would freak out the squares more than enough.

But hey, alot of people don't agree with how I live my life, so if you want a swazi on your bike, that's your business.

I'd be lying if I said I never owned a Skrewdriver album (we all are hypocrites at some point), but the music is catchy, and I find humor in it. However, you'll never see me framing pictures of Ian Stuart or praising the message that comes out in some of his songs.

Oh and for you idiots who don't actually know this, 'angel of death' is a song about Dr. Mengle and the horrible things he did to children (particularly twins) during WW2, look it up, it may enlighten you.
The man once sewed two twin children together to try to replicate siamese twins. This was done without anesthesia. They screamed in pain for weeks until they finally died of gangrene.

Ooh and Terry, I love you but have to disagree with this comment,

"Furthermore, if truly the civil war was fought over slavery then I would like to ask the question why the African American people did not have equal rights until the 60's...Rant Over - lol"

Slavery was a catalyst of the civil war, but not a sole cause. However, because the reconstruction was a failure and a missed opportunity for America, blacks did not achieve equality until the 60's. I won't get long winded, but if need be we will debate this one day....and I will win, lol.

On that note, get off your computers, work on them motorsickles and get ready for MEXICO! June is right around the corner people.

jason43
12-30-2009, 9:13 AM
Who gives a shit?

I have friends that rock swazis, I have friends that believe in some of it. I also have friends that are Jewish, Black, and every other race.

You can not wear a stupid symbol on your bike or clothes and be the biggest racist there is or cover yourself in them and not be a racist at all. Its just whats in your heart/brain that matters.

I have a friend who wears shirts with big swazis on the back of them and he said that the only people who give him a reaction are young white women.

Personally, I like them on bikes because I think of the '60's outlaw bikes when I see them. The only problem I have is that its now associated with white power, which isn't my thing. I also have a shaved head (cause my hair is departing on its own, so I just keep my pride and shave it off), so I don't put them on my shit because I don't want to be confused with that bullshit. If I had hair, I'd put them on my shit for sure.

And I'd also definately rock the Rebel Flag. I'm Southern and to me it has nothing to do with racists. In fact, I'd like to see southern blacks wear rebel flags too so that the racists will stop wearing it. After all, some of their ancestors (http://www.blackconfederates.com/) fought for the south too. And some of them even owned slaves. (http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm) Shocking, I know.

Government education = learning what the government thinks will make you a good citizen, including that wars are over anything except money and power.

Explain to me why southerners would go to war so that 1.4% of their population could own slaves? Why there were draft riots in NY and why Lincoln had to sneak through Baltimore through the middle of the night? That war was a power grab by the Federal Gov't and nothing more. Lincoln was probably the worst president we ever had, aside from Wilson and FDR.

*steps off the soapbox*

rockaphilly
12-30-2009, 9:25 AM
I'm with Jason on this one. I just think outlaw bike of yester-year, and a big fuck you to society when I see them. Believe in it and it's magical powers for good luck or hate if you want. whatever, everyone sucks anyway.

And as a transplanted southerner in Yankee territory I PROUDLY rock a rebel flag....and so do all the black cowboys in Bensonhurst. Seriously, there's a community of them there.

jason43
12-30-2009, 9:44 AM
I don't think anyone has actually said it, but the way that the German imagery got tied into 'biker' culture was because the bikers in the 60's were rebelling against their dads. Dad fought the germans in WWII. Throwing on some old german medals and a helmet pissed off daddy, so it worked.

Later, the whole white prison gang thing happened, then the whole PC thing happened. And now swazis are bad.

Its still 'acceptable' to every HOG fag to put iron crosses on everything, but all that is, is a watered down PC symbol that took the place of the swazi from the real bikers of the late 60's. Its ok to wear an iron cross on your shirt and a german novelty helmet when you ride, but somehow, this one symbol is not acceptable.

The people putting swazi's on bikes, primarily the Japanese, don't associate them with the holocaust, they associate them with 60's bikers. There are no Jews in Japan, or not many. The Rising Sun flag would be the bad one there because the mass murder, rape, and destruction that the imperial Japanese army did to China, and everywhere else they occupied is much more personal than what happened in Europe.

beanhead78
12-30-2009, 11:58 AM
hey check out my points cover on my avatar. fuck everyone!!!!!

dannyb
12-30-2009, 12:02 PM
junk pile

jason43
12-30-2009, 12:04 PM
junk pile

They were sooo ahead of you on that one. lol

MadDog
12-30-2009, 1:18 PM
I realize that it is not the swastika specifically that bothers me, or the iron cross. They both have a rich history. The ss symbol tends to bother me a bit. The confederate flag doesn't bother me at all. I have traveled in India where swastikas are everywhere (but always square, never 45ed) and used to live with a rug dealer where I was surrounded by tribal patterns, again with swastikas, always square, never 45ed.

Growing up in the punk scene in Orange County, I was surrounded by white power bull shit. A lot of them knew I was Jewish, and for the most part no one cared either way. Then in the early nineties punk rock started to be "cool" and all sorts of jocks that were preppy last week, were shaving their heads, wearing Skrewdriver shirts, buying Doc Martens at the mall, and beating up anyone different. Basically, the squares were dressing like skins and fucking up the scene.

When I see people rocking an old swastika points cover from the sixties, it doesn't bother me at all. When I see someone marketing new SS points covers to anyone with a credit card I see them as catering to ignorance, and potentially recreating the same problems from the punk scene in the chop scene.

You might not think anything of it, and most of the people doing it are really nice, but it sure is annoying to see some guy at the swap meet, with a nazi symbol bike part, telling me about some dude "jewing" him on a deal. All I can think of is my 18 year old grandpa running from his burning village, hiding the fact that he is Jewish so he might live another day.... and people wonder why I have anger ...

But ultimately, when I see someone rocking Nazi imagery (whether on their bike, clothes, skin, or whatever) I simply assume they are ignorant. Whether someone is sporting nazi symbolism because they are racist, or because it looks cool, they are acting ignorant and will be perceived as such.

jason43
12-30-2009, 1:33 PM
Seems like the SS symbol is around more than the swastika and considered 'less' offensive to most...

I dated a straight laced Jewish girl years ago that was into me having a shaved head and tattoos, she was into the idea of being with a skinhead (which I'm not). She was one sick pup. Hot as hell though...

ditto
12-30-2009, 2:21 PM
http://photo.sparetime.jp/071202_1/7601.jpg

.
i dig the hell outta this tank - overall bikes goota be nice too

Thanks to BFJosh for the encyclopedia sized edumucation you coulda thrown a couple naked slut pics in the middle of that rant though - I started getting crosseyed fukker

Pantsbeer
12-30-2009, 3:19 PM
I dont even know were to start with some of the ignorance floating around. When the bikers in the 60's were rockin nazi shit it was still racist. It didnt suddenly become racist. If you know time lines of history ww2 came before the 60's bikers which means they were racist when they were rockin them. I dont think you guys realize that there are black,japanese,jewish....etc people that are racist and wear nazi shit and wish they werent whatever race they were. I could give two shits what the rebel flag and swazi mean to you, that they arent racist to you because they are racist whether you believe it or not. That just means your being ignorant and choosing to beleive something else. Your friend that wears a swazi on his shirt is a ticking time bomb till someone take a baseball bat to his head. I know lots of people that would do that without a second thought as to the reason he was wearing it. I said already if the bike was themed with swazis and that also had other easter religious symbols on it that would be different but thats not the case, usually they are accompanied by ss bolts which are a nazi symbol plain as day and cany be argueed. Wear what you want put what you want on your bike but dont come here bitching when you end up in a hopsital from catching a beating. I also would like to add that I dont think it takes balls to rock nazi shit I thinks it takes ignorance and stupidity.

beanhead78
12-30-2009, 3:37 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eFR9xkZm4ck&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eFR9xkZm4ck&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

TemeculaTerry
12-30-2009, 4:57 PM
Not that anyone actually cares, but here's my two cents.

Ooh and Terry, I love you but have to disagree with this comment,



Oh - well, umm -
heeey -
I LOVE U TO!
maybe we should talk about this...lol

Richard
12-30-2009, 6:50 PM
As the son of a man who flew many missions over Germany I couldn't wear a nazi symbol, but they sure had the best uniforms.

wickedblockhead
12-30-2009, 7:23 PM
i dont know, the Marines dress sure looks sharp

L7Josh
12-30-2009, 7:57 PM
As the son of a man who flew many missions over Germany I couldn't wear a nazi symbol, but they sure had the best uniforms.
hugo boss designed there uniforms of corse there going to look snazy

Halwade
12-30-2009, 8:46 PM
My high school German is rusty, but I think this flag says:

"I love the taste of warm man meat"

And yes, those are graphic weiners.

mikestobbe
12-30-2009, 9:04 PM
Why is this bike posted on the first pave of this thread , in the middle of a rant about swastikas . . . am I missing a swastika hidden somewhere or am I just not paying attention .


http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m394/iluvsa66/rosebike2.jpg

wickedblockhead
12-30-2009, 9:37 PM
i think he was trying to illustrate what would be shocking today. instead of swastikas a guy with flowers on his bike.

beanhead78
12-30-2009, 9:50 PM
stop being a bunch of gaywads www.deathmachinecorpse.com

NHMike
12-31-2009, 12:03 PM
http://wwwdeathmachinecorpse.blogspot.com/

Get it right! ;- )

I was wearing a DMC Shirt a couple weekends ago, while me and the OL were out for Breakfast. A dood walks up says, nice shirt!, opens up his hoodie and has got one on himself! hahahaha

originalrumrunner
12-31-2009, 9:30 PM
Why is this bike posted on the first pave of this thread , in the middle of a rant about swastikas . . . am I missing a swastika hidden somewhere or am I just not paying attention .


http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m394/iluvsa66/rosebike2.jpg

Yes, I was suggesting that there are plenty of (IMO) cooler, bolder moves that you can make other than Swazis when throwing a theme together.

I stand by my original statement that I am and never have been anti-Swazi, just trying to figure out what motivates folks. That's not to say that I'm not a pansy ; )

evodog
01-04-2010, 9:52 PM
History is written by the victors...not by the defeated!

Unless you were there...you only think you know what went on!


To accept what the media and programer would splew forth as fact and then to consider it gospel is to just verify your lack of intellect.

In other words "YOU ARE A TOOL!"

To presume that because something is there and it only means this to you ,doesn't mean it means that to them!

Richard
01-05-2010, 5:55 PM
History is written by the victors...not by the defeated!

Unless you were there...you only think you know what went on!


To accept what the media and programer would splew forth as fact and then to consider it gospel is to just verify your lack of intellect.

In other words "YOUR A TOOL!"

To presume that because something is there and it only means this to you ,doesn't mean it means that to them!
It's you're a tool not your. You 're means you are. Your means it's some thing you have, like your wrench. R

Robzilla
01-05-2010, 6:29 PM
It seems to me that if you have to have something "Shocking" you're just like Paris Hilton, another person trying to be famous for nothing. That Nazi Swazzie stuff is boring and you had better be one tough motherfucker to have it, otherwise you and your bike get fucked with. I've found most White Supremacists are a bunch of pussies in my town. They pick on the white kids and do nothing to further their cause by actually going to the black neighborhoods to spread their hate. Impress me and go there and see how long you last. Paris Hilton doesn't belong in the home-built chopper scene, take your Ed HardyAffliction wearin' ass and go somewhere else.

revmike
01-05-2010, 8:52 PM
That whole going panty-less in the taxi is so 2009. Who wants to see your johnson when you get out? Paris Hilton is sooo 2009. I would NEVER do her again....

I don't care what you put on your bike or your tatts or your t-shirt (as long as it is plaid and youre wearing Vans). Just know that consciously or unconsciously youre sending a message about yourself that other people are processing. Fairly or unfairly you will be judged, just as we all are by what is on our bikes or our backs.

That said, people have been trying to make statements with their bikes for 120 years or so. And people have been interpreting and misinterpreting that for decades. In the 50s you didn't need to sport a swassie to scare people, you could just put a leather jacket on and ride a motorcycle.

Sporting swassies in the 60s and 70s became a way of saying fuck you to the Man and to Daddy's generation. That was part of the reason why black bikers were also sporting swassies.

Today, as someone said, it is hard to sometimes get away from the subtle SS thunderbolts or other symbols that have found their way into biker culture. Some people are ignorant, some think it stylish, some think it is counter culture and some actually believe in the tenants of National Socialism. Say what you will about National Socialism, Donny, but at least it's an ethos...

Someone once told me that they sported maltese crosses and swassies as a symbol of victory over the Nazis, a kind of theoretic war trophy as McGoo was saying. While I think the Swastika will eventually fall by the wayside, you cannot separate the Maltese cross from the biker culture anymore than you can the hummingbirds.....

Or at least that's my opinion. Your mileage may vary....

~Rev Mike

Ps.. if I ever caught my kids sporting a swassie they'd wish they had died in WWII.....

SMChewy
01-05-2010, 9:16 PM
I just bought a bike so I can wear these things and look cool. Will you guys hang out with me now?

SMChewy
01-05-2010, 9:21 PM
P.S. like the Deicide drop. Glen Benton for president fuckers!

revmike
01-05-2010, 9:22 PM
I just bought a bike so I can wear these things and look cool. Will you guys hang out with me now?
You're always cool when you're buying.... Shit, I've never been cool for even an afternoon. I'm always at least 10 years behind the times.... lol

SMChewy
01-06-2010, 10:09 PM
You're always cool when you're buying.... Shit, I've never been cool for even an afternoon. I'm always at least 10 years behind the times.... lol

Ah ha ha. The more I read your posts the more I like you Rev! Sounds like the story of my life. A day late, and a buck short!

lang
01-07-2010, 9:42 AM
now I know I'm getting in on this late, but I read the title and says in my brain "what the fuck's wrong with Swazis? Swaziland is one of the most peaceful nations in Africa, so their king picks a new 14 year old bride each year, so what?"

Now I get it. Fuckin Swazis!

dalebfast
01-07-2010, 4:44 PM
The fucking thread that never died.
It belongs here in the junk pile.
But don't associate it with my junk.

ditto
01-07-2010, 5:30 PM
i sure do miss the hot babe thread - im way too cheap to subscribe to any of them tatted teenie porn sites, but I sure wish someone that does would focus energy on posting them tattooed sluts half as much as the rants in this fuckin thread

i dunno but just about any pussy tittiy booty shot trumps gay nazi shizzizm any day - dont it - ok well maybe not any but.......

BullDog
01-07-2010, 10:56 PM
i sure do miss the hot babe thread - im way too cheap to subscribe to any of them tatted teenie porn sites, but I sure wish someone that does would focus energy on posting them tattooed sluts half as much as the rants in this fuckin thread

i dunno but just about any pussy tittiy booty shot trumps gay nazi shizzizm any day - dont it - ok well maybe not any but.......

Yeah, that thread did kinda die off there. Hell, I don't pay for any of that shit either......there's way too much available for free dude.

Jashole
01-07-2010, 11:55 PM
HAHAHAh junk pile!

Gardener1
01-14-2011, 7:50 PM
Something to think about. The " swastika" is WAY older (about 3,000 years) than the Nazi symbol. In Japan it is called Manji a symbol of good luck. It means literally `well being' . The swastika is found in many different places around the world. It should also be noted the swastika is a Native American symbol and was used PRE '39 US ARMY 45TH IFD. Look it up.
Yes some use it as a symbol of fear or they think it is cool, for what ever reason. But this does not mean the swastika is bad. In fact it is a symbol of good that has been twisted and missed understood.
I have no problem with it. But for anyone here in America that chooses to display the swastika, it would behoove them to research it and understand how to educate the people who will attack you for it.

33anda3rdreich
01-14-2011, 8:23 PM
Their are many symbols that offend people. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Maybe the sickle and hammer could be the new swastika. I think of old 60's bikers sticking it to the man, not genocide. I have the right to interpret anyway i want. I do not agree with Nazis new nazis racism ect. I support people for who they are not what they are. Lets put it this way i love building Harleys but i hate Harley Davison. For the 6 years it flew it destroyed hundreds of years it wasn't offensive. The US army used it for a division in world war 1.

Very well put! Dont make assumptions on what I wear or why I wear it. Personally peoplle wear alot of stuff I dont like, but I really dont give a shit. Thats them, not me.

Its all subjective and opinion. Good topic.

onigoroshi
01-14-2011, 8:40 PM
don't even look at a swastika, you might have crimethink

aaronc
01-14-2011, 9:10 PM
No dought the nazis were horrible,but what they had was cutting edge badass war machines,I personally think that has sumthin to do with it.

CRFyou
01-14-2011, 10:12 PM
i don't know you guys.... Nazi shit can be cool....

their imperial walkers were way ahead of their time.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/CRFyou/Screenshot2011-01-14at80010PM.png

Shacknasty
01-15-2011, 3:47 AM
I want to do something so that everybody will hate me...

Fur covered swastikas!

number1son
01-15-2011, 3:47 PM
Oh, Magic 8 Ball.......is it okay to run my Kim Jong Il points cover and air cleaner?






http://www.chopcult.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10655&stc=1&d=1295127960

fatass
01-16-2011, 10:07 AM
http://www.thechopperunderground.com/forum/uploads/1295179547/med_gallery_14576_920_55666.jpg

GERONIMO HITLER says you must be this tall to ride..

a5tach
01-16-2011, 5:29 PM
i remember i was at a car show and this guy had an 72 ironhead so i went over to talk to him. cool guy, awesome bike. he had a swaz head badge and this trashy ass lady walked by and did the whole hilter deal (she was serious about it) and started ranting about germany..the guy told her it was a "biker thing" and she argued no, its a german thing...i walked away entirely confused...seems to me right now its not really either of those things. It is however a historic symbol used for both of those things..i say put whatever you want on YOUR bike but like bill said you should be ready to get lumped into a category that you may or may not agree with.

ashy
02-08-2011, 8:20 PM
greatest line ever!

"if I ever caught my kids sporting a swassie they'd wish they had died in WWII..... " thanks rev mike

funny story, my wife is hindu and i went over to their folks place once on diwali and they had a huge swastika painted on the front door. i was like "shit woman, you guys are bunch of racists!"

jonnyrtn
02-08-2011, 11:22 PM
In the Marines in the 80's I had a Jap flag, a North Korean flag, a Chinesesessss flag, South Korean flag, Taiwan etc etc etc in my room.... the Chi Coms were following us around on float with planes, the North Koreans were threatening at every chance in Team Spirits and the Russians ran trawlers as close as they could to us on the seas (I got pics) so screw a SWAZI IT WAS NO MORE THAN WHAT MY BROTHERS IN ARMS FACED and whooped ass on. Yes they were the greatest generation, but we are the keepers of the peace.Hipsters can be all indignent on the Swazi but they need to serve and prove....... but we know that aint gonna happen. Buy a bike like Willie G. (who never served) and be a bad ass.

jluck27
02-09-2011, 8:08 AM
I think this could all be settled with a hug and a beer..just sayin :cheersmate:

HumblePie68
02-09-2011, 8:31 AM
I think its pretty simple really.

if it fits the theme,,it works

if it is used in an "art" sort of way.. it works


if you have just to many on a bike ,,it looks stupid


if your doing it just to offend ,,it's stupid


It really depends on how its used,,to many folks think ..OHHH put a swastika on it that will look sick

though a big huge air cleaner shaped like one is gonna look dumb

some will say "period correct" and yeah,,but I would say only on a survivour that still carries it from then.

In the end folks are gonna do what they do,,sadly most times just for attention

Just like the rebel flag,,an image only has the power you give it

Hooligan80
02-09-2011, 9:03 AM
I wanted to say something,and it has to do with the original post.
1: First of all,Japan adopts a lot of American style and culture,including the brandishing of swastikas on bikes and clothing,and hell,they even have a skinhead culture that is dedicated to hating Western civilization,they are known as the SSS( Samurai Skinhead Spirit),yet they dress like you see American and European skinheads. They have a low rider culture that emulates the Chicano low rider movement out here,and a lot of the people in Japan emulate the whole East L.A. cholo look when associating with the low rider culture,so it's no surprise to me that they fly Swazi's on their bikes.

2:As for the Nacht Jaeger line of bikes,Nacht Jaeger translates to Night Fighter,and I don't see one Nazi theme on those bikes except for maybe the use of German in the naming,and that's where it ends. The logo they use is a modified Templar Cross,not even an iron cross.. Once again,the German naming is where the Nazi similarity ends. I think this thread even being started was useless.

StoneHead
02-09-2011, 9:25 AM
Dunno how you get that that's not an Iron Cross, or that they don't use a German military theme (That happens to coincide with nazi gemany) when a certificate of winning the iron cross is on their opening page. Not to mention the Luftwaffe night fighter units.

http://www.hot-dock.co.jp/NachtJaeger/NJ-1-home/NJ-T-web-900.jpg

Hooligan80
02-09-2011, 10:41 AM
Maybe because I didn't bother to look at anything but the bikes,and the cross on the shield they use as the logo has been around since the Christian Crusades,waaaay before Nazi's were around. The Nazi's ripped off all kinds of symbols,so they were the hipsters of the 1900's.

Hooligan80
02-09-2011, 10:43 AM
http://www.dormslate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/hipster-Hitler.jpg

HumblePie68
02-09-2011, 11:08 AM
Personally I like it like this in black and white and in the cross,, the whole flag as well,,,

to me its art ( but that me ) it's gonna mean what the stigma has made it, no real way around that

this one happened to be taken of a U Boat during the war

StoneHead
02-09-2011, 11:43 AM
Not bashin man, just pointing out that everything is a matter of interpretation.
And what might make the hair on the back of my neck stand up wouldn't necessarily do the same for someone not in my small corner of the universe.

"The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II."

Quoted from http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm


People tend to run their mouths about subjects without really doing their homework. I"ve done it, and got smacked around more than once for it. And again, Hooligan, this isn't aimed at you.
That's one of the problems facing this country in particular, folks believe the propaganda without researching shit for themselves. This has to stop. Otherwise we'll continue on the path to Idiocracy.

One last point, "Aryan" is from Sanskrit and means noble, the original Aryans were from central Asia and have absolutely nothing to do with being "white".

onigoroshi
02-10-2011, 3:57 AM
Too bad Hitler wasn't as edumucated as you all.

33anda3rdreich
02-10-2011, 4:20 AM
Not bashin man, just pointing out that everything is a matter of interpretation.
And what might make the hair on the back of my neck stand up wouldn't necessarily do the same for someone not in my small corner of the universe.

"The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II."

Quoted from http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm


People tend to run their mouths about subjects without really doing their homework. I"ve done it, and got smacked around more than once for it. And again, Hooligan, this isn't aimed at you.
That's one of the problems facing this country in particular, folks believe the propaganda without researching shit for themselves. This has to stop. Otherwise we'll continue on the path to Idiocracy.

One last point, "Aryan" is from Sanskrit and means noble, the original Aryans were from central Asia and have absolutely nothing to do with being "white".

Complete. This should be read by all

TemeculaTerry
02-10-2011, 8:14 AM
As much as I agree with 33 we all have to look at perspective.
The Swazi does mean all those things but from more modern times it has taken on another meaning and that is hate.
It's sad to see wonderful symbols from other cultures destroyed and misused for the destruction of man. But once they are that is what they are, a representation of the fact of what they were used for.
If your culture uses this symbol for religious or cultural reasons then that is what it is,! Being from a Chinese religion background I get that. For what many Christians what they consider evil my religion thinks of it as natural or another force to overcome or use for the better good.

In our culture thee Swazis meaning and symbolism means only one thing - hate! and that should be considered with extreme prejudice when spreading such useless non sense, mostly when it can influence the young out of ignorance and insult certain cultures that were haunted by the use of the Symbols power.

Hooligan80
02-10-2011, 8:46 AM
Too bad Hitler wasn't as edumucated as you all.

Actually,he was,or he wouldn't have conquered most of Europe. Problem is,he had syphilis and let it go untreated which caused him to go insane and think it was a good idea to exterminate Jews,gypsies,cripples and anyone who didn't fit his idea of the master race. I mean,you have a short,diseased,unfit,drown haired and brown eyed half Jewish man convincing an entire nation that the ideal race is fit,blond haired and blue eyed even though he didn't even fit his own description. I would say he was a genius that fucked up by starting the holocaust.

TemeculaTerry
02-10-2011, 9:04 AM
Straight up Hooligan

33anda3rdreich
02-10-2011, 9:58 AM
As much as I agree with 33 we all have to look at perspective.
The Swazi does mean all those things but from more modern times it has taken on another meaning and that is hate.
It's sad to see wonderful symbols from other cultures destroyed and misused for the destruction of man. But once they are that is what they are, a representation of the fact of what they were used for.
If your culture uses this symbol for religious or cultural reasons then that is what it is,! Being from a Chinese religion background I get that. For what many Christians what they consider evil my religion thinks of it as natural or another force to overcome or use for the better good.

In our culture thee Swazis meaning and symbolism means only one thing - hate! and that should be considered with extreme prejudice when spreading such useless non sense, mostly when it can influence the young out of ignorance and insult certain cultures that were haunted by the use of the Symbols power.

I understand your point of view.

But I must raise a question..

Wouldnt you agree that people have a horrible opinion about bikers?

I would say yes. I dont know how many times I hear someone describe a biker they know then at the end say "despite his appearance hes a real nice guy"

Some have said that about me (Im covered in tattoos). Many people are intemidated by looks and symbols but after they break the ice 9 times out of 10 they change their mind about said induvidual. And its understandable, as humans we are hardwired to judge by appearance. Thats how we stay safe from the ax weillding maniac vs. the sweet old lady.

But much like the biker analogy its up to us as induviduals to change minds and break that stereotype.

Just my .02

badmojo
02-10-2011, 10:02 AM
This thread,yawn!!!!!!

Sighless
02-11-2011, 11:56 AM
I have nothing to add, just needed a reason to post this.

http://ugliesttattoos.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/7677e749-410c-4a46-a34a-1ff3ce99927c.jpg

33anda3rdreich
02-11-2011, 5:56 PM
I have nothing to add, just needed a reason to post this.

http://ugliesttattoos.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/7677e749-410c-4a46-a34a-1ff3ce99927c.jpg

!!

GregZamarripa
03-26-2011, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=stevanjohnson;29143]i always thought upside down crosses and pentagrams were way cooler than white trash swazi's! but to each his own ha[/QUOTE

haha look who it is. well said.

LinkBelt
03-26-2011, 11:23 AM
someone call a whambulance, "Waaaaa my pussy hurts and the swazie is so offencive" fuck get a life you bunch of morons. Run what you want and don't worry about what someone else is running. I'm going to start a fucking pocket protector rant because all you guys offend me with them you bunch of dorks.

CRFyou
03-26-2011, 11:27 AM
this will improve a topic that is more played out than lindsay lohan's straw she rails coke with...

http://www.deathstarinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/wwii_atat.jpg

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad106/germaiden/ww2-at-at-star20wars-war-weapon-vin.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp263/Ironic-Mike/X-WingonAircraftCarrier.jpg

http://www.moneyandshit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/star_wars_1944_small.jpg

TkilledJ
03-26-2011, 2:04 PM
someone call a whambulance, "Waaaaa my pussy hurts and the swazie is so offencive" fuck get a life you bunch of morons. Run what you want and don't worry about what someone else is running. I'm going to start a fucking pocket protector rant because all you guys offend me with them you bunch of dorks.

Oh man, this had me cracking up!!!
-Cosign :cheersmate:

Stuelke
03-26-2011, 2:16 PM
I personally think the swastika itself looks awesome.... and im sure there are people who think rainbows look awesome..... even though i have blond hair and blue eyes, and i shave my head to the scalp and sometimes tuck my pants into my boots, it doesnt make me a racist...... if you want to paint your bike with a rainbow scheme, it wont actually make you a homo..... so if you enjoy spreading the word about how your not a gay neo-nazi, just because your rainbow colored bike has swastikas all over it and youre wearing a german helmet, then drink your cup of tea, you earned it.

Stuelke
03-26-2011, 3:20 PM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5057/5562348708_6501f15670_s.jpg My back deck. it came this way.......

HDSporester
03-26-2011, 5:17 PM
someone call a whambulance, "Waaaaa my pussy hurts and the swazie is so offencive" fuck get a life you bunch of morons. Run what you want and don't worry about what someone else is running. I'm going to start a fucking pocket protector rant because all you guys offend me with them you bunch of dorks.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :clap for you:

aaronc
03-26-2011, 7:27 PM
I worked in a foundry for awhile and they had a bunch of black guys puttin refactory brick in one of the huge ovens,This old guy and I were walkin by and out of nowhere he stops and asks them"what you couldnt get a jew to do it?" Aww gawd it was funny,and thats all I got on nazi stuff.

Moparkevin
03-26-2011, 7:32 PM
i always thought upside down crosses and pentagrams were way cooler than white trash swazi's! But to each his own ha

fuck yeah!!!!!!

Speedfiend
03-26-2011, 9:46 PM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/lamoreuxh/cartoon4351-2-1.gif

slingshot
03-27-2011, 10:05 PM
you are all gay. go work on you bike

ChoppyGee
03-28-2011, 12:09 AM
Rock whatever you want you're grand daddys beat those fuckers into the ground so you can do whatever the hell you want but, to be frank if you're sporting that evil zig zag i'm going to make an assumption and tag you as a mindless trend humping sheep that doesn't have anything unique to put out so is to regurgitating whatever is on all of the blogs (I read them too...way too much) and seriously youre not much better off than if you were to slap a 300 series tire on your scoot. I don't care what your reasoning is what your politics are how bad you get off pissing people of and sticking it to the man. when it comes down to it, Its been done, its played out you're not freaking out the squares, you're not throwing out so much bad ass vibes the road can't even hold you up. Its old, its tired and its not that cool. Like I said if thats "your" style. By all means. Now have fun with this all. I gotta go list some more shit on craigslist so i can try to afford putting my bike together.

Allen
03-28-2011, 6:11 AM
Rock whatever you want you're into sporting that evil zig zag humping sheep on all of the blogs (I read them too...way too much) and seriously youre not much better pissing people off and sticking it to the man. you're freaking out the squares, you're throwing out so much ass vibes Its old, its tired and Like I said if thats "your" style Now have fun with this all.

After staying up all night here's what I got outta that post... the first thought that came to my mind when you said evil zig zag was that rolling paper dude, cause he's "truly" evil. Peace out.

rickboyd
03-28-2011, 6:13 AM
Rock whatever you want you're grand daddys beat those fuckers into the ground so you can do whatever the hell you want but, to be frank if you're sporting that evil zig zag i'm going to make an assumption and tag you as a mindless trend humping sheep that doesn't have anything unique to put out so is to regurgitating whatever is on all of the blogs (I read them too...way too much) and seriously youre not much better off than if you were to slap a 300 series tire on your scoot. I don't care what your reasoning is what your politics are how bad you get off pissing people of and sticking it to the man. when it comes down to it, Its been done, its played out you're not freaking out the squares, you're not throwing out so much bad ass vibes the road can't even hold you up. Its old, its tired and its not that cool. Like I said if thats "your" style. By all means. Now have fun with this all. I gotta go list some more shit on craigslist so i can try to afford putting my bike together.

Once upon a time, the guys that brought the stuff back, the guys that watched their brothers die to put an end to it, wore it as war trophies. Then their kids wore it in the 60's for its shock value, it was still raw in the 60's and pissed people off. Now the grand kids and great grand kids of these brave men wear the stuff and I just don't get it. Don't actually care really, but look at it like this some of your fathers and grandfathers fought in Vietnam, strap a Viet flag on your back and see just how fast one of my brothers will rip it off your jacket or vest. Sport some NVA insignia and see just how quick you'll get singled out at one of the parties I go to. See what kind of respect you get wearing a green pith helmet with a red star on it. It's exactly the same thing as the twisted cross, for whatever reason you wear it, shock value, cool factor, whatever, remember the men that paid for em, show them the respect they deserve, Vietnam wasn't my war but I have nothing but respect for anybody that's served....It's funny, the only time I see American medals being worn is by the guys who earned them and then not too often, I don't wear mine, but if you weren't there you wouldn't understand.

I'm going out to work on my scoot....later

TkilledJ
03-28-2011, 7:29 AM
Once upon a time, the guys that brought the stuff back, the guys that watched their brothers die to put an end to it, wore it as war trophies. Then their kids wore it in the 60's for its shock value, it was still raw in the 60's and pissed people off. Now the grand kids and great grand kids of these brave men wear the stuff and I just don't get it. Don't actually care really, but look at it like this some of your fathers and grandfathers fought in Vietnam, strap a Viet flag on your back and see just how fast one of my brothers will rip it off your jacket or vest. Sport some NVA insignia and see just how quick you'll get singled out at one of the parties I go to. See what kind of respect you get wearing a green pith helmet with a red star on it. It's exactly the same thing as the twisted cross, for whatever reason you wear it, shock value, cool factor, whatever, remember the men that paid for em, show them the respect they deserve, Vietnam wasn't my war but I have nothing but respect for anybody that's served....It's funny, the only time I see American medals being worn is by the guys who earned them and then not too often, I don't wear mine, but if you weren't there you wouldn't understand.

I'm going out to work on my scoot....later

:cheersmate: Seriously though, it's only cool if you were the one ripping it off of corpses, otherwise leave it at home with other mementos from your grandpa. Come up with some new shit, and stop following.

ChoppyGee
03-28-2011, 8:21 AM
:cheersmate: Seriously though, it's only cool if you were the one ripping it off of corpses, otherwise leave it at home with other mementos from your grandpa. Come up with some new shit, and stop following.exactly. If its your trophy that your collected then that's bad ass ill give you all the respect I can muster. If you got it out of your grandpas foot locker isn't it better admired in a frame at home. If you snagged it at a surplus store and threw it on your scoot so you can get a bro-job down at your local bike night then that's pretty lame. That's all I was getting at

WarriorChief
04-09-2011, 11:12 AM
When I see them I just see my native symbol being perverted. But I would still rather ride with some scalps on the sissy bar flying in the wind whilst the heart is slow roasted wrapped in foil sitting between the heads and getting ready for luch ! But hay that just me. You all think we are civilized lol.

"Speak english or get the fuck out"

How about speak, Pascua Yaqui or get the fuck moving ! Yaqui WARRIOR and PROUD of it !

DS/DS VET--IRAQI WAR VET (Blown to bits then stitched and back agian)

KIRK
04-09-2011, 3:13 PM
My ancestors are natives to America and for thousands of years the "whirling logs" image meant good luck as it has for tons of other cultures around the world for as long or longer.

I think the most anti-Nazi thing to do is to take back the swastika and have it for a good luck symbol again.

Images only have the power you give them, so don't forget the atrocities of the Nazis, but change the meaning of the symbol back to it's real one.

TkilledJ
04-10-2011, 1:52 AM
My ancestors are natives to America and for thousands of years the "whirling logs" image meant good luck as it has for tons of other cultures around the world for as long or longer.

I think the most anti-Nazi thing to do is to take back the swastika and have it for a good luck symbol again.

Images only have the power you give them, so don't forget the atrocities of the Nazis, but change the meaning of the symbol back to it's real one.

Blame that douche Hitler for ruining the swastika, although I look forward to conversations with him in hell, shit maybe even Fidel too (and I'm half Cuban... Possibly the better half hah.) Guess we'll just have to settle for the rabbits foot for now? haha.

I like your train of thought though Kirk, but as you alluded to, images can be quite powerful, and lets face it, America's full of way too many morons who don't realize that Hitler stole the symbol to begin with, and it really had nothing to do with him, besides a fashion statement of sorts... Kinda like guys do today hah.

WarriorChief
04-10-2011, 10:04 AM
That closet fag Hitler was enamoured with the American cowboys and the natives ! He was into it like I like scoots ! He actual did steal the design from us. Dont believe me look up the Hit man and his hobbies and you will see.


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h31/Ironhead111/sigpic17805_2.jpg



"Speak english or get the fuck out"

How about speak, Pascua Yaqui or get the fuck moving ! Yaqui WARRIOR and PROUD of it !

DS/DS VET--IRAQI WAR VET (Blown to bits then stitched and back agian)

beanhead78
12-24-2011, 1:13 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DPGIdsIfUrE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

beanhead78
12-24-2011, 1:14 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/h_Y3G8kXh1Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

beanhead78
12-24-2011, 1:15 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vc_7VajEoP8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheGooch13
12-24-2011, 1:20 PM
Who gives a fuck what the next guy runs. I try to keep my everyday rider kind of inconspicuous and I don't want my shit kicked over when it is out of sight., I can dig pissing people off that I don't care to know but consider breaking down passing through the hood with nazi shit on your bike or having officer goldstein pull you over and you just made a bad day a total shit day.

RetroRob
12-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Guess I'll add my 2 cents on the subject. My Dad was in Pattons 3rd Army and was captured in the Bulge at Bastonge. The 2 Germans that were assigned to execute him marched him into the woods out of sight and handed their rifles to him and surrendered. They knew their cause was dead, and decided to surrendered to the first friendly GI they met.
My Dad always said there was a huge difference between the regular Germans and Nazi party members, particularly the SS, who would fight to the death.
As a military Historian I can understand the attraction to the Nazis, the pagentry, the uniforms, weapons and the hidden symbolism. I think a lot of guys wear the stuff or add it to their bikes simply for the shock value. What funny is that alot of the guys I know that sport this stuff are some of the most Patriotic, pro Americans I know.

michaelmartin
12-26-2011, 2:10 AM
Guess I'll add my 2 cents on the subject. My Dad was in Pattons 3rd Army and was captured in the Bulge at Bastonge. The 2 Germans that were assigned to execute him marched him into the woods out of sight and handed their rifles to him and surrendered. They knew their cause was dead, and decided to surrendered to the first friendly GI they met.
My Dad always said there was a huge difference between the regular Germans and Nazi party members, particularly the SS, who would fight to the death.
As a military Historian I can understand the attraction to the Nazis, the pagentry, the uniforms, weapons and the hidden symbolism. I think a lot of guys wear the stuff or add it to their bikes simply for the shock value. What funny is that alot of the guys I know that sport this stuff are some of the most Patriotic, pro Americans I know.

Outstanding. Your dad was a tough motherfucker if that's where he was. And for that alone, as well as my grandfather who served, I could never rock any kind of swazi material. If that's your thing, I don't stand in your way. Enjoy yourself. But for me personally... couldn't happen. If my Pop was still alive and saw me throw on some German helmet, for example? He'd slap the fuck out of me until it came off. Too many guys that would have came back and made the same bobbers and choppers we love just didn't come back. They started this shit, as far as I'm concerned. And I just can't spit in their face so I can have some shock value about being a hardass biker.

RetroRob
12-26-2011, 2:17 AM
I feel pretty much the same. If thats your thing, great but i Just couldn't wear it, got a lot of friends that reenact Ww2 as Germans, the old man probably be rolling over in his grave.

keithforall
01-04-2012, 6:42 PM
everyone seems to be on the same page on this topic
and im no different no way in hell youll find one on my bike
but if thats your thing have fun
i personally prefer when a bike can gather crowds without a controversial theme to it
you could take a clapped out honda spree and write some iffy shit on the plastic and probably have people stop and look

Hooligan80
01-04-2012, 9:11 PM
This is my profile pic on my Facebook, I'm married to a beautiful Mexican woman and my brother is half Mexican, I'm white and Blackfoot. Am I racist, nope.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/MattGrimm13/AMFer.jpg


Just for the fuck of it...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RovF1zsDoeM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

sandergecko
01-05-2012, 7:34 AM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vlmGknvr_Pg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

badmojo
01-05-2012, 2:04 PM
Adolf was an inbred pedophile whose army not only killed 6 million Jews,but what most people seem to forget,killed 25 million Russians!!!
Hugo boss only designed the black ss uniforms!!
Henry ford had connections to hitler and the early beginnings of the Nazi party!
Last but not least,running swazis on your bike and claiming it's anything other than a modern day symbol of hate,is dumb!

CRFyou
01-05-2012, 2:36 PM
Adolf was an inbred pedophile whose army not only killed 6 million Jews,but what most people seem to forget,killed 25 million Russians!!!
Hugo boss only designed the black ss uniforms!!
Henry ford had connections to hitler and the early beginnings of the Nazi party!
Last but not least,running swazis on your bike and claiming it's anything other than a modern day symbol of hate,is dumb!

i think the total of everyone dead in his temper tantrum war is near 80 million.

his father was cold as ice. beat the shit out of him a lot.

if your father beats you unmercifully as a child, you should be barred from public office.

tokes61
01-05-2012, 2:51 PM
Sorry to correct you but its estimated 25 million russians died i ww2 , check your facts stallin & the rusian political oficers would have killed a good 10 million or more , eg when russian troops retreated they were mown down by there own machine guns , they were sent into battle sometimes 1 gun to 4 or 5 troops just to waste the german amunition ,
stalin made hitler & the german people look like rank amatures. stalin starved over 20 million of his own people to death , many more millions did in his purges , its estimated he was directly responcible for over 50 million russion deaths

ask yourself this why did we( not counting the USA in this germany declared war on the us not the other way around) declare war on germany for invadeing poland but not the ussr who whilst germany was invading from the west invaded from the east the russians commited far more atrociaties on the poles than the germans ..

back to swaztikas ect ,to each his own just accept the impications of your action for wearing them

onigoroshi
01-05-2012, 9:01 PM
WWII was all about preserving Britain's empire and Anglo dominance. Then they let the whole thing slip through their fingers a few years later and now they're even losing control of England.

badmojo
01-05-2012, 9:06 PM
No problem Tokes61!

NHMike
01-05-2012, 9:23 PM
Said....

tokes61
01-05-2012, 10:38 PM
WWII was all about preserving Britain's empire and Anglo dominance. Then they let the whole thing slip through their fingers a few years later and now they're even losing control of England.

Rubish ww2 was about germany , japan & russia trying to assert themselfs ,britain was already downsizing its empire . at the end russia and the u s a then a few yrs latter japan and germany were the eventual winners britain was destroyed by its tenacious strugle an again check your facts if britain fell the war was over ,, adolf hitler was our best friend if he had left it to his generals they would have won .
ah your japanese , ye your taught in school that rubish just take a look in chinese text books read about the battle for nanking ect study & learn hell you could have been a comfort boy for the officers if youd been 12 or so

onigoroshi
01-05-2012, 11:23 PM
LOL keep tokin man!

Hooligan80
01-06-2012, 7:57 AM
LOL keep tokin man!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/MattGrimm13/Hitler%20Humor/hitler-phone.jpg

Hooligan80
01-06-2012, 7:59 AM
You know why David Hasselhoff is huge in Germany? Because he's a dictator..


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/MattGrimm13/Hitler%20Humor/hoffhitler.jpg

starwolf
01-12-2012, 11:06 AM
http://www.m38a1.com/Misc-MV/thunderbirds.htm

Bandersnatch
01-14-2012, 6:49 PM
Just read it all lookin for insight into why it keeps pooopin up on bikes. SStill lame. Bikers used to make out with each other to freak out SSquares too. Just sayin. Put a big ole ding dong on yer scoot's tank. You'd attract the same kinda attention. Later.

IronheadChris
01-15-2012, 2:23 AM
Listen to yourselves, You guys bitching about swazi's on bikes are a bunch of pussy's. Who gives a shit what's on peoples bikes. If it's a nice bike then who cares. Lot's of this is just part of the history. It's been around since the beginning and meant the same thing then as it does now. Only difference is there wasn't a bunch of girls crying about it on forums. You don't have to like it but you should accept the fact that it IS part of the history of these bikes. If it bothers you that much go buy a crotch rocket. All the bikers of back in the day would shit them selves if they knew what today's bikers were like. Quit being a bunch of girls and grow some balls.

mikeyfrombc
01-15-2012, 12:05 PM
Listen to yourselves, You guys bitching about swazi's on bikes are a bunch of pussy's. Who gives a shit what's on peoples bikes. If it's a nice bike then who cares. Lot's of this is just part of the history. It's been around since the beginning and meant the same thing then as it does now. Only difference is there wasn't a bunch of girls crying about it on forums. You don't have to like it but you should accept the fact that it IS part of the history of these bikes. If it bothers you that much go buy a crotch rocket. All the bikers of back in the day would shit them selves if they knew what today's bikers were like. Quit being a bunch of girls and grow some balls.


Why do people say ‘grow some balls’? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, Grow a vagina .. Those things can take a pounding.” – Betty White.

reeferman
01-15-2012, 12:13 PM
i didnt think the americans gave much care about what hitler did. I mean they didnt join the war untill 1941 ..... i dunno just saying

LUNCHB0X
01-15-2012, 9:04 PM
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/1699d1045702971-thread-sucks-contest-thread-tts.jpg

SpringerScott
04-05-2012, 10:43 AM
I have this sticker on my oil bag. If it offends anyone, IDGAF, they probably don't belong in this country anyway

bikerman14
04-05-2012, 11:47 AM
I think people are overly sensitive. The swastika is SO offensive but the hammer ans sickle is not? bullshit, COmmunism has claimed more lives than the holocaust has by millions! holocaust: 12 million, Communism: 300 million. but the jews have to allways whine. I think the swastka is cool, I do no condone what the nazi's did, nor am I a neo nazi. I just find that time of history interesting. WWII reenacting is my other hobby. The bike I am working on is going to have the ss runes painted on it, a nazi sword for a shifter, and a Iron cross dangling from my sissy bar. I also got a denim vest with the german eagle on it. whatever happened to free speech? It's not like I'm going around killing people.

Nosebleed
04-05-2012, 12:47 PM
This thread reminds me why I don't watch reality tv. Any time you get 16 people together on the same remote island, or 12,000 on the same website, it's a guarantee that some will be offended by everything.

I wouldn't run one because my grandfather served in the Army in WW1 although he was of German descent. Respect for his service is the only reason though.

CriminalKZ
04-05-2012, 2:58 PM
I'd rather see a swastika on a bike than a christian cross. Who agrees with that?!?!?!?

CRFyou
04-05-2012, 3:07 PM
I'd rather see a swastika on a bike than a christian cross. Who agrees with that?!?!?!?

Hitler was Roman Catholic.

On the altar in his church he attended as a child is a swastika. The church and old school swazi is still there.

So I'm gonna go ahead and put the holocaust on christianity. The last crusade as it were.

Bing Bong!

BingTheBarber
04-05-2012, 10:36 PM
Way i see it... the swastika was around LONG before nazi BS..... it was a symbol of good luck... if i was to use it in a way it would be for that.... not to try to look like a bad ass...

ThePete
04-06-2012, 2:20 AM
Don't know if this came up in the discussion but regardless of where the symbol comes from the stigma that has been attached to it because of the Nazi party has altered most Americans view of it. The same goes for many things wether its a symbol, logo or branding.

I would like to think that the origins for swastikas in bike culture stem from WWII vets returning with their spoils of war. Come to whatever conclusion you want as to how they obtained them (trading a pack of smokes to a captured POW for enemy insignia, off a random fallen German soldier or from one they personally did in) Some of these bad asses may have pinned them on their own chests as a testament to the fact of what the accomplished or some other memento, or sported a German helmet they'd brought back while they rode the transition from being on their chest to the bike eventually happened. Maybe it was like flying kill markers on the side of their plane or mission counters on a bomber jacket. I doubt that there was any association with the Nazi party at this time. Some of it may have been for shock value, I'd bet back in the late 40's if you saw a biker with a bunch of Nazi gear you'd have assumed that it was stuff he brought back from the war, a testament to their service.

Personally I'd never sport any such thing, for one I don't need the drama that comes with the stigma. secondly I wasn't there and I haven't earned that privilege as a vet. What would you think of an American that had Iraqi military paraphernalia sewn on his vest? Not exactly the same but you see where I'm going with this.


Sent from the handicapped stall.

REV
04-06-2012, 8:53 AM
http://www.cherryplucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/cp_pix_161_break_editors_are_hacks_8.jpg

CriminalKZ
04-06-2012, 10:13 AM
I agree CRFyou. Jews killed Jesus and that was the payback.

shiftace
04-08-2012, 9:28 AM
more people have been killed over the cross than have been killed over the swaztika. If you knock on the door and kill em over time somehow it's more humane than kicking the door down and killing them quickly.

happy easter.
:cheersmate:

TemeculaTerry
04-08-2012, 11:19 AM
It's the hate that follows the Swazi, that's the issue. Racists, dumbshits and people are trying to prove something to themselves and others with a clear lack of respect for those that were punished by it or the others that fought against it.

It clearly isn't a symbol of peace unless you are a part of the Indian or Pure Land Buddhist culture or religion.

The cross is a symbol of a man that suffered for our sins as well as his own. What they have done with it since is much like the Swazi, the difference is that outside of being the symbol of the English flag it has not been used as a symbol of war since the crusades in which were semi honorable for the first half of the wars then greed took over -

Sighless
04-08-2012, 4:55 PM
This has been discussed to death, several threads have been locked/closed over it.
It's a symbol, plain and simple. What it means to you or him or her will vary greatly. To automatically assume that someone who wears it is a racist is being judgmental and then you are no better than a racist. People have been judged, murdered, raped etc over symbols long before us and will continue until the world ends. While there has been some intelligent, historically accurate answers, I doubt anyone will have their minds changed with short replies on a message board. People have already determined what they think/believe; But go ahead and beat this dead horse as long as you all like; but it's nice out, so I'm going to grill some chicken, drink a beer, hang out with my family, then later I'm going to ride my scoot.

WarriorChief
06-20-2012, 12:12 AM
Hitler was a huge cowboy and indians buff.

I myself have a few swazies on my bike but I am also a govt registered (like a dog) Pascua Yaqui Native American. It was one of our symbols long before the germans used it. Plus I do like the "huh" stuff when people see me with my black hair and brown skin with my bike lol.

KAISERDERN
06-20-2012, 5:21 AM
I'd rather see a swastika on a bike than a christian cross. Who agrees with that?!?!?!?
I do

TemeculaTerry
06-20-2012, 8:25 AM
It all depends if you subscribe to it and what it is used for is truly what it is and becomes.
If it is being used as Native American symbol, Hindu, Buddhist or even Roman origins, by subscribing to it or practice the beliefs that use it for its spiritual energies and or philosophies then it has substance.
Just to be the devils advocate, if you subscribe to the symbol through its hate and ignorance of the German nazi party as an excuse to promote your hate of other races other than your own then as an open person I would have to respect that as well even if I don't agree with it.
To sport it just to get attention or to try to prove to someone that you don't give a fuck just makes you a fucking poser in my book - straight up!

badmojo
06-20-2012, 10:20 AM
It all depends if you subscribe to it and what it is used for is truly what it is and becomes.
If it is being used as Native American symbol, Hindu, Buddhist or even Roman origins, by subscribing to it or practice the beliefs that use it for its spiritual energies and or philosophies then it has substance.
Just to be the devils advocate, if you subscribe to the symbol through its hate and ignorance of the German nazi party as an excuse to promote your hate of other races other than your own then as an open person I would have to respect that as well even if I don't agree with it.
To sport it just to get attention or to try to prove to someone that you don't give a fuck just makes you a fucking poser in my book - straight up!



What he said!

FlyingPistonRon
07-13-2012, 8:34 PM
Any symbol has a different meaning to each individual depending on their experience and opinions and if your trying evoke an emotional response use of symbols and logos is a great way to do it. The swasi is just one of many out there. WCC uses and iron cross logo and many other natzi era symbols like the warbird and SS (as did AC/DC) but those are just the begging. It is in vogue in Japan to use the Imperial flag (the one with the radiant red beams) not just a red circle in a white field which is the standard Japanese flag because in many folks the war flag evokes more response. My dad worked for the navy and has such a bitter hatred for anything communist that seeing a hammer and sickle or just a yellow star in a red field is vile to him. I think it was his strong disdain that led to my fascination of East Blok war propaganda and in my borrowing the Flying sickle insignia of Aeroflot (Russian airlines) for my company logo.

Hooligan80
07-13-2012, 8:53 PM
Porch Monkey isn't racist, we're taking it back

Deckard43
07-13-2012, 9:00 PM
<a href="http://s1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/deckardsr/?action=view&current=b1819930.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/deckardsr/b1819930.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

randommayhem
07-13-2012, 9:15 PM
http://proswastika.org/

NHMike
07-13-2012, 9:26 PM
http://proswastika.org/

http://proswastika.org/e107_images/custom/swastika_day_66_la_7_450.jpg

Revelation
07-14-2012, 8:45 AM
i would never put a swazzie on my bike because my grandpa would roll over in his grave

samehere






I also do not like anything that has to do with the murder of thousands of innocent people

I understand rebilion, 1%, ect. but nazi germany just doesnt do anything positive for me

ThePete
07-14-2012, 11:49 AM
I get the whole swastika biker WWII connection, however I refuse to roll with anything like this on my person. My grandmothers family fled Russia due to having Jewish blood somewhere in the bloodline (there is more to this story they had direct implications in a bombing assassination attempt on the Czar) to Italy, then part of the family left Italy to go to England when Mussolini came to power. During WWII she and my grandfather met in a bomb shelter during the Blitz. He was one of the first US troops in England before official US involvement to help the Brits set up and operate the first radar sets as part of their early warning system. Consequently after they were married and returned to the US she was THE first "war bride" to return to the US.

That being said I still think some of the vintage stuff is cool, and I would wear a luchador's mask if I liked it.


http://img.tapatalk.com/42574a0f-c427-10a7.jpg Bacon, it's meat candy!

clintron
09-20-2012, 8:19 AM
I think people are overly sensitive. The swastika is SO offensive but the hammer ans sickle is not? bullshit, COmmunism has claimed more lives than the holocaust has by millions! holocaust: 12 million, Communism: 300 million. but the jews have to allways whine. I think the swastka is cool, I do no condone what the nazi's did, nor am I a neo nazi. I just find that time of history interesting. WWII reenacting is my other hobby. The bike I am working on is going to have the ss runes painted on it, a nazi sword for a shifter, and a Iron cross dangling from my sissy bar. I also got a denim vest with the german eagle on it. whatever happened to free speech? It's not like I'm going around killing people.

can't really follow the logic here. sounds to me like you are a fan of nazi's... and if you don't already understand why that's wrong, you probably never will.

clintron
09-20-2012, 8:26 AM
Way i see it... the swastika was around LONG before nazi BS..... it was a symbol of good luck... if i was to use it in a way it would be for that.... not to try to look like a bad ass...

that nazi BS changed our civilization. so i think it's safe to say it change the meaning of the swastika. if you were to use it, no matter what your reason, it would deeply offend others. not worth it.

Jetblack
09-20-2012, 11:14 AM
When I was growing up in "punk/skate culture" some people wore straight nazi shit they were racist skinheads...shaved head, white shirt, suspenders, cuffed or high water jeans and steel toes. Some bikes are of that culture.

The iron cross I will always associate with Independent brand skateboard trucks/skate culture, and nothing else. Some bikes are of that culture.

There were some people in the scene that wore, death heads, swastikas, peace signs, upside down crosses etc. on their leathers, these were the food not bombs peace punks. Some bikes are from that culture.

If you see them in Japan/Asia/India as Bill pointed out it is from Buddhism, it represents the mind seal of enlightenment. Hitler stole the symbol from the earliest Tibetan religion called the Bon religion, the Aryan thing was stolen from there too. Aryan in Bon meant the noble ones Arhats, fully enlightened beings that help the world. Some bikes are of that culture

Hitler perverted all of this, He stole the symbol, said Aryans were a master race and thought annihilation of the Jewish people would help the world.

Native American swastikas are still around, although usually hidden in other stylized forms that were around before Hitler too(longer or curved arms etc.) These other forms are used to not upset people or to confuse it's meaning with Hitlers. The meaning varies by tribe.

I see nothing wrong with taking the symbol back, of course I don't know if Hitlers perversion of it will ever go away, since not very many people aren't aware of it's history other than Nazism; it probably isn't a good idea to be sporting it on your machine in the US and Europe.

I hate people as individuals based on my experience with them and their actions, not by groups. Hating by groups is fucking ignorant.

BIGHYDRO
09-20-2012, 11:44 AM
I only have Swazis on my bike and skin due to my support for Coca Cola.







http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x296/BIG_HYDRO/cocacola-swastika-fob_zps083292bc.jpg

WTCProspectPA
09-20-2012, 11:56 AM
Alot of people run the two liightening bolts or SS symbol, honestly I have one on my german novelty helmet. Mostly because its a german style helmet and I thought they would look kind of cool. but at the same time I got an American flag on each side as well. Just saying...

2stroketim
09-20-2012, 12:00 PM
I think people are overly sensitive. The swastika is SO offensive but the hammer ans sickle is not? bullshit, COmmunism has claimed more lives than the holocaust has by millions! holocaust: 12 million, Communism: 300 million. but the jews have to allways whine. I think the swastka is cool, I do no condone what the nazi's did, nor am I a neo nazi. I just find that time of history interesting. WWII reenacting is my other hobby. The bike I am working on is going to have the ss runes painted on it, a nazi sword for a shifter, and a Iron cross dangling from my sissy bar. I also got a denim vest with the german eagle on it. whatever happened to free speech? It's not like I'm going around killing people.

You simply seem to be enthralled with Nazi culture, whether you admit it or not.

The Jews always whine? Your credibility was lost with this statement.

The SS bolts are associated with the Holocaust. The hammer and sickle are not.

I would venture to guess that you play a German during these reenactments?

SS Runes are associated with the Holocaust. Hitlers version of the swazi is associated with the Holocaust. The iron cross is associated with the Holocaust.

Nothing happened to your free speech. And, no, it's not like you are going around killing people. You are going around proudly displaying symbols that are associated with the Holocaust, while bitching about the "whining Jews."

So you see, there Bikerman, you don't need to proclaim yourself a neo-nazi - the symbols you associate with and the verbs and nouns that you type do that.

For those that truly like what the symbol stands for in a theological sense, there is a pretty good answer for you. Hitler made one version of the swastika well known. USE A DIFFERENT ONE.

Like one of these:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/timdtheman/150px-HinduSwastikasvg_zpsbe21b649.png

Or any one of these:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/timdtheman/swastika_zps663d1ebb.gif


But this one:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/timdtheman/swastika_03_zps15bd1859.gif

Will always be associated with the 3rd Reich, Hitler, and the Holocaust. No matter how you attempt to justify yourself Bikerman.....your actions say it all.

Doesy
09-20-2012, 5:57 PM
Just a quick thing, I always thought it was weird that the German's were condemned for persecuting Jewish people for 9 or so years when the English did it for 330 odd years and no-one really says anything about that? I'm not sure how many Jewish people were murdered between 1290 and 1625 but I'm sure there was a few....

WCterror
09-20-2012, 6:18 PM
Anyone seen this yet?
<center>
<a href="http://s959.photobucket.com/albums/ae79/1badknee/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_1490_zps9be5624c.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae79/1badknee/IMG_1490_zps9be5624c.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<br/><br/>
</center>

Gnarly
09-20-2012, 6:34 PM
Just a quick thing, I always thought it was weird that the German's were condemned for persecuting Jewish people for 9 or so years when the English did it for 330 odd years and no-one really says anything about that? I'm not sure how many Jewish people were murdered between 1290 and 1625 but I'm sure there was a few....

Same thing with the U.S and the french...the french invaded and Africa and made them slaves in their own country. But everyone talks about what the U.S did.

Rubman
09-21-2012, 1:05 AM
Just a quick thing, I always thought it was weird that the German's were condemned for persecuting Jewish people for 9 or so years when the English did it for 330 odd years and no-one really says anything about that? I'm not sure how many Jewish people were murdered between 1290 and 1625 but I'm sure there was a few....

don't forget the Spanish! had a professor who gave an interesting lecture series on how Christopher Columbus was a Portuguese Jew who stole the real Christopher Columbus' identity. The reason why he left at midnight, august 3 1492, is because that was when queen isabella told him to get the fuck out (just 3 days after all jews were expelled from Spain).. he actually made a pretty convincing case -- i wish i had recorded the lectures.

Allen
09-21-2012, 1:31 AM
Don't forget Jew on Jew too... Cain and Able, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on...

Hooligan80
09-21-2012, 9:23 AM
You're forgetting the most notorious: The Egyptians enslaved the Jews for over 2000 years.

Gnarly
09-21-2012, 9:42 AM
American propaganda makes the nazi stick out. Don't get me wrong...that was brutal shit that Hitler did and Slavery wasn't the proudest moment in our history but its funny how the history that involved America is the most remembered.

WCterror
09-21-2012, 11:11 AM
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but only 5% of the slaves taken from south africa came to North America. The rest went to South America, Europe and the Caribbean Islands.
Compared to the treatment they received in Brazil and other Countries who's economies were driven by mining, the slaves that came to North America received good treatment.

poonslammer
09-21-2012, 5:55 PM
American propaganda makes the nazi stick out. Don't get me wrong...that was brutal shit that Hitler did and Slavery wasn't the proudest moment in our history but its funny how the history that involved America is the most remembered.

thats because we have american history classes in school, when was the last time you had a whole class devoted to any other countries history unless your in some narrow niche ya know.

Gnarly
09-21-2012, 6:02 PM
thats because we have american history classes in school, when was the last time you had a whole class devoted to any other countries history unless your in some narrow niche ya know.

Well yeah but what I was getting at is that the way History is presented to us (whether it be American or world) Is very much propaganda. I'm not gonna turn this into a big old political debate but our schools teach us BS.

Doesy
09-21-2012, 8:16 PM
We get taught mainly Australian History in the first 4 years of High School (not exclusively) but then in the last two years it's mainly foreign history, particularly WW2 and Vietnam War stuff.

heretic530
09-21-2012, 10:15 PM
I am going to be the devil's advocate, and piss a few people off

I see all the pseudo righteous indignation, and cannot help but wonder how those passing judgment feel about being judged, themselves.
In this thread, I see people dictating what others should and should not display, and passing judgment on those who do not feel the same as they do. There are posts criticizing others, and a digression to name calling. The one coming to mind right now was someone calling those who displayed a symbol they found unfavorable "douches". So does passing judgment on others make some of you feel superior?

Let's change the standard, and the basis of comparison. This is a biker sight, so should we judge everyone on their ability to build a frame from scratch (and have it pass a DOT safety inspection) ? Is everyone who has not done this a douche? How about we judge everyone by engine building standards. Is everyone who does not know their exact connecting rod length and exact rod angle at rollover a douche? How about everyone who has not built their own frame, AND done ALL the machine work building their own engine... is everyone who does not meet that criteria a douche?


do we need to narrow it down further, or have I made my point clear?
There is always a basis of comparison that allows humans to rationalize their own superiority over another human. if you want the freedom to express yourself as you wish, respect that same freedom for others. One should always remember that when you point a finger at another, ten are pointed back at you...

Maybe we should all remember the biblical proverb about judging not....





and just a disclaimer.. I have no such markings on my bike, at all. Nor have there ever been.

904Punk
09-21-2012, 11:19 PM
What I find interesting about the swastika in biker culture is people say they wear it for the rebellion, no one tells me what to do bs. I find it funny because the nazi were known for being well discipline, never question authority and always do as your told.

Hooligan80
09-22-2012, 6:29 AM
When I was growing up in "punk/skate culture" some people wore straight nazi shit they were racist skinheads...shaved head, white shirt, suspenders, cuffed or high water jeans and steel toes. Some bikes are of that culture.

The iron cross I will always associate with Independent brand skateboard trucks/skate culture, and nothing else. Some bikes are of that culture.

There were some people in the scene that wore, death heads, swastikas, peace signs, upside down crosses etc. on their leathers, these were the food not bombs peace punks. Some bikes are from that culture.

If you see them in Japan/Asia/India as Bill pointed out it is from Buddhism, it represents the mind seal of enlightenment. Hitler stole the symbol from the earliest Tibetan religion called the Bon religion, the Aryan thing was stolen from there too. Aryan in Bon meant the noble ones Arhats, fully enlightened beings that help the world. Some bikes are of that culture

Hitler perverted all of this, He stole the symbol, said Aryans were a master race and thought annihilation of the Jewish people would help the world.

Native American swastikas are still around, although usually hidden in other stylized forms that were around before Hitler too(longer or curved arms etc.) These other forms are used to not upset people or to confuse it's meaning with Hitlers. The meaning varies by tribe.

I see nothing wrong with taking the symbol back, of course I don't know if Hitlers perversion of it will ever go away, since not very many people aren't aware of it's history other than Nazism; it probably isn't a good idea to be sporting it on your machine in the US and Europe.

I hate people as individuals based on my experience with them and their actions, not by groups. Hating by groups is fucking ignorant.

You must have totally missed Sid Vicious of the Sex Pistols and many other old punk band members wearing stuff with Swazis on it then.

muttblbc
09-22-2012, 2:03 PM
my .02. Im jewish, My grandmother is an Auschwitz survivor, my father was born in a refugee camp in cyprus, when Im at family gatherings everyone over a certain age has a number tattooed on their arm. My family history starts at 1948 because no one wants to remember back before that. It definatly dissapoints me to see it. I dont think its judgemental a bit as someone pointed out before to decide that the person rocking it is a deuche bag, rocking one DOES make you a deuche bag. it IS your right to wear, and think whatever you want and I would never support outlawing a symbol or trying to dictate what someone else is allowed to think but anyone rocking one needs to remember that it is not a personal statement just for them, its not cool, or edgy and whether you believe in what it stands for or "are a perfectly nice guy" the proliferation of that symbol makes it less taboo, thus enabeling the people that DO believe in what that symbol means to be more visible. you also have to factor in that there are still concentration camp survivors left and think of what effect seeing that symbol flown brazenly has on them, it dosent matter what your intentions are, there is still a cause and effect of your actions. If you would not be willing to ride around on a bike that has "I hate niggers" painted in big letters on it, you should think about what your swazi says.

904Punk
09-22-2012, 2:20 PM
my .02. Im jewish, My grandmother is an Auschwitz survivor, my father was born in a refugee camp in cyprus, when Im at family gatherings everyone over a certain age has a number tattooed on their arm. My family history starts at 1948 because no one wants to remember back before that. It definatly dissapoints me to see it. I dont think its judgemental a bit as someone pointed out before to decide that the person rocking it is a deuche bag, rocking one DOES make you a deuche bag. it IS your right to wear, and think whatever you want and I would never support outlawing a symbol or trying to dictate what someone else is allowed to think but anyone rocking one needs to remember that it is not a personal statement just for them, its not cool, or edgy and whether you believe in what it stands for or "are a perfectly nice guy" the proliferation of that symbol makes it less taboo, thus enabeling the people that DO believe in what that symbol means to be more visible. you also have to factor in that there are still concentration camp survivors left and think of what effect seeing that symbol flown brazenly has on them, it dosent matter what your intentions are, there is still a cause and effect of your actions. If you would not be willing to ride around on a bike that has "I hate niggers" painted in big letters on it, you should think about what your swazi says.

Half Jew here and I feel the same way, I don't want to take away your right to fly it but don't get upset when I judge you for it. I'd do the same if you had any racist/gay bashing thing on you.

I have a knack for always questioning people with Nazi shit, not looking Jewish at all they tend to never have a problem letting me know they are Aryan whatever. I always kindly inform them that I'm Jewish and if they feel that way to prove it and we can throw down wherever, haven't found anyone willing to yet :rolleyes: Most nazi/aryan's are all talk to try and look bad ass when they are just around their other white friends.

904Punk
09-22-2012, 2:22 PM
You must have totally missed Sid Vicious of the Sex Pistols and many other old punk band members wearing stuff with Swazis on it then.

And you can buy his swazi shirt for only $15,000!!! :cheersmate:
:rolleyes:

http://exclaim.ca/News/Sid_Vicious_Swastika_Shirt_on_Sale_for_Over_15000

muttblbc
09-22-2012, 2:26 PM
and just for whatever, im not a pc fucktard that runs around looking for reasons to be offended, I can tell a good jew joke with the best of them. when i see a swazi i feel more disgusted then offended, and if being offended is the worst thing that happens to me that day then its been a great day. Its easy to look past the depth of something when its never cast a shadow on your life, and I can agree the ss uniforms where bad ass looking. the nazis had some of the coolest looking military insignia ever BUT if you cant emapthetically understand why having something like that on you is not just offensive but TERRORIZING to a certain part of the worlds population, and im not talking about me here, but about the people who where actually there, that had their family, and people slaughtered in front of them in death camps then douche bag is probably not strong enough of a word.

BIGHYDRO
09-22-2012, 2:28 PM
lol this thread is awesome

904Punk
09-22-2012, 2:34 PM
Oh yeah, I'm not PC at all either, anyone who knows me will tell you that. I've taught alot of my friends the Jew jokes they know along with the slang terms. My friends call me a kike, Mick(irish too), gringo, whatever really. I don't hold back telling the ghetto ass bangers I work with the most fucked up racist jokes either, they know I'm not really racist(usually find them pretty funny too) and appreciate my balls for saying shit to their face, unlike most people.

That said, I don't get offended by the swazi, but do like to hear people defend it with words but not willing to with fists, gives me a good laugh.

Gnarly
09-22-2012, 2:44 PM
I haven't put my 2 cents in here because I don't give a shit what other people do unless it affects me or my family or friends.
Now I'm not Jewish and I won't ever know how that feels when you see a Swazi. But I am Mexican can and I've heard people say racial slurs and I don't even flinch. Now if someone said it directed towards me I would have to throw down.
I guess what I am saying is I don't see how people are offended by things not directed towards them personally?

muttblbc
09-22-2012, 2:47 PM
I am going to be the devil's advocate, and piss a few people off

I see all the pseudo righteous indignation, and cannot help but wonder how those passing judgment feel about being judged, themselves.
In this thread, I see people dictating what others should and should not display, and passing judgment on those who do not feel the same as they do. There are posts criticizing others, and a digression to name calling. The one coming to mind right now was someone calling those who displayed a symbol they found unfavorable "douches". So does passing judgment on others make some of you feel superior?

Let's change the standard, and the basis of comparison. This is a biker sight, so should we judge everyone on their ability to build a frame from scratch (and have it pass a DOT safety inspection) ? Is everyone who has not done this a douche? How about we judge everyone by engine building standards. Is everyone who does not know their exact connecting rod length and exact rod angle at rollover a douche? How about everyone who has not built their own frame, AND done ALL the machine work building their own engine... is everyone who does not meet that criteria a douche?


do we need to narrow it down further, or have I made my point clear?
There is always a basis of comparison that allows humans to rationalize their own superiority over another human. if you want the freedom to express yourself as you wish, respect that same freedom for others. One should always remember that when you point a finger at another, ten are pointed back at you...

Maybe we should all remember the biblical proverb about judging not....





and just a disclaimer.. I have no such markings on my bike, at all. Nor have there ever been.

Because supporting genocide and not building your frame from scratch is so similar. see this isnt offensive, its fucking hilarious!

d0gbreath
09-22-2012, 4:25 PM
Its a Symbol...Just like a peace sign is a symbol, but how many of you are aware of the fact, a peace sign is an upside down cross with broken arms. Originally used in Nero's despise of Christians, when they hung St. Peter they did it on an upside down cross with broken arms. Nobodys bitchin or debating that are they? Me personally, would'nt run or display a Swazi...I know some tough Jews that wont give you a minute to explain your fascination before putting out ya lights. Some use the symbol for shock value and others simply for creative enthusiasm. Your always gonna rub someone the wrong way no matter what ya rock Rainbows or Swazi's...I just say if your goin to run anything that can be considered offensive be prepared to defend it..
Am I offended by the Swazi? NO, I just dont need anyone thinkin I idolize a funny mustached kraut that took a self inflicted round to the chin...
Never heard this before. The Peace sign is the semaphore flag positions of an 'N' superimposed over an 'R'. "No Radiation". It was brought about by the No Nukes people.

I remember bikers rockin the Swastika back in the early '60s. It went well with the German helmet, which is still widely sold today. Why so much distain for the emblem, yet the helmet style is A-OK?

Anyone got a Charie Chaplin moustache?

Gnarly
09-22-2012, 7:22 PM
Another thing to add....I have a japanese rising sun as a buckle on my battery strap. I have seen many people with the same symbol on paint and other various spots on bikes. No one cates how offensive it is to the chinese?

Bandersnatch
09-22-2012, 7:39 PM
Another thing to add....I have a japanese rising sun as a buckle on my battery strap. I have seen many people with the same symbol on paint and other various spots on bikes. No one cates how offensive it is to the chinese?

I was pretty offended man.
I mean......you know.
Yer scoot was all...."In your face with the race". Kinda hurt my feelings and junk.
My Asian wife thought it was all cool and stuff......but she's super racist.

Hooligan80
09-22-2012, 7:48 PM
Because supporting genocide and not building your frame from scratch is so similar. see this isnt offensive, its fucking hilarious!

How is anyone supporting genocide? That shit happened over 60 years ago. The Swastika predates that by thousands of years if not longer.

Hooligan80
09-22-2012, 7:50 PM
I have a penis and I have offended many people while flying it

Bandersnatch
09-22-2012, 8:11 PM
If I put a rainbow sticker on my car........would you assume I'm a gay dude?

Or do yo think that I am, to this day, excited to share the news that God has promised to never flood the Earth again?

If yer rocking a swazi........
DO NOT BS ME.............

"OH I was looking for a symbol of good luck and I couldn't find ANYTHING LESS CONTROVERSIAL."

You know why you like it.

Either you believe in what it stands for.............

Or you like the fact that it commands "fear" or "respect"

Or that it "pisses people off.....FTW"


That's your right.
I get why they put it on bikes back when.........
But yer not fooling anyone with the "Good LUck" BS.

TwostrokeTim Put up quite a few alternatives to a Nazi Symbol that actually looked pretty cool..................
Yet


NONE OF THEM...........
Shared the same meaning as the Nazi Symbol.

Gnarly
09-22-2012, 8:12 PM
I was pretty offended man.
I mean......you know.
Yer scoot was all...."In your face with the race". Kinda hurt my feelings and junk.
My Asian wife thought it was all cool and stuff......but she's super racist.

Fuwk this was the best shit I heard all day.

BIGHYDRO
09-22-2012, 8:41 PM
I would never fly a rising sun because my grandpa would roll over in his grave.

ran
09-23-2012, 4:15 AM
The origins
The expression Swastika comes from the Sanskrit (a language from the Indian
subcontinent) word “Svastika”, composed of the syllables SU – (good) and ASTI (to be), meaning “to be lucky” or “salutary” or “what is good”.
In Latin the symbol was called CRUX GAMMATA or GAMMADION, because its angles look like four backwards grecian gammas .
In Germany the symbol is called “sun gear”, “goniometercrux” and since the 19th century most often “fylfot”.

Historians disagree on where the birthplace of the Swastika is located.
Commonly the origin is thought to be in Mesopotamia, and from this country it spread to many other cultures.
One of the oldest known Swastika is found in a 10,000 year old Stone-Age cave. Because the Swastika is a simple, almost universal sign, it was used in many various cultures with no obvious connection to one another. There are numerous examples, the women of some indigenous tribes in Brazil wear shields with Swastikas over their genitals to symbolize mother-love.
For the Mayans the Swastika stood for creation and for the Incas and Aztecs it represented the four seasons due to its four arms, the centre symbolizing the sun. The Swastika is found in many Mesoamerican works of art, which shows it must have circulated.
The Swastika is used in Islamic art and is also seen in Christian and Byzantine Empire art. The Greeks associated the Swastika with the sun god Apollo, and it was painted on clothes, houses, ceramics and many other items. It was a holy symbol, and priests burned them and wore them on their clothing.
In the Roman empire the Swastika stood for the god Jupiter and frequently appeared in mosaics.

Tattooed Africans see the Swastika as a representation of fertility and Japanese Samurai wore them on their armour. Also the Celts, Vikings, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and the ancient Egyptians used the Swastika, examples of which can be seen in museums, collections and records from all over the world.
It is noticeable that the Swastika is always used as a positive symbol, irrespective of which culture it is used by. It is a sign meaning birth, luck, fertility, and creation. It embodies life and the changing of the seasons.
The Swastika in the “West”
The Swastika can often be seen in Europe.
For example, the Celts in Ireland and Scotland frequently used to carve it on their tombstones, and the Scandanavians used it as a symbol of “Thor’s hammer”.
In the 20th century the Swastika celebrated its rediscovery and is beginning to be used again. You can find it as a symbol of luck for the Finnish airforce on their planes and the famous Carslberg beer from Copenhagen in Denmark had the Swastika on their bottles from 1881 until the second world war.
In Ontario, Canada, is a city named Swastika. During the second world war the goverment renamed the city Winston, but the people of the city wanted to keep the name and protested using the slogan “To hell with Hitler, we came up with our name first”. To this day, the city is still called Swastika.

Before the Nazi regime there were many cities named Swastika, but they mostly changed their names due to the war. There were several hockey teams with this name, and the Swastika could also be found on poker chips, and clothing, Coca-Cola distributed Swastikas as part of a sales campaign and it could be found on many postcards. American Pathfinder awarded a “white Swastika” emblem to people who had done something good. The Laguna bridg in Colorado is decorated with big Swastikas and one of the bigest women’s societies wore it as their name and emblem before somebody renamed them 1942. In the “wild West” the Swastika was used as a brand on livestock, the idea behind this being that the Swastika is built from four “L” which stand for “Luck, Life, Love and Liberty”.
In Great Britain too, the Swastika could be found on several everyday items and as a mosaic pattern and in architecture, and even in Germany, long before the Nazis, the Swastika was a symbol of good luck akin to the horseshoe or four-leaf clover, but of course all this changed due to the second world war.

The Swastika in the “East”
The basic difference in common use of the Swastika between Western and Eastern culture is that in the West the negative associations due to the abuse of the symbol by the nazis caused the Swastika to almost completely disappear, but in the East it has continued to be used as an auspicious symbol.
The swastika is very important in Buddhism and is known as “Buddha’s heart”.
Some Buddhists say that in every picture of Buddha a Swastika should be seen on his chest. In Asia you can find Swastikas on huge statues of the Buddha, on buildings, clothes, packaging, jewellery, ornaments, and many more kinds of item. Hindus and Jains see the Swastika as a symbol of luck and of the highest Creator. In fact, in Hinduism it is almost on a par with how widespread and important the symbol of the Cross is for Christians. The elephant god Sri Ganesha has a swastika in his palm. Ganesha is popularly worshipped as a remover of obstacles, though traditionally he also places obstacles in the path of those who need to be checked.

In the Chinese alphabet, the Swastika in a circle stands for “sun”, and without the circle it means the number 10,000 (in Chinese: wan or Wantzü) which means “come from the heavens”. If you find the Swastika on Chinese food packaging it is a sign that it is a pure vegetarian product, and followers of the Falun Gong religion wear five Swastikas. In Tibet it is not unusual for the monks to get swastika tattoos as an outward show of their spirituality. The throne of the Dalai Lama is decorated with four Swastikas and you find throughout Tibet and Nepal on everyday items and as a marking denoting monasteries.
The future
Along as the Swastika is associated with the Third Reich, there will be a negative attitude to it in our culture. The Swastika is the most easily recognisable and “powerful” symbol of Nazism therefore its use is frowned upon and discouraged. It is very difficult in modern Western culture, particularly in Germany, to use the Swastika in its original context as a positive symbol.

You should not take every Swastika you see to be a Nazi symbol. If everyone reads this and passes it on then it is taking steps towards reinstatement of this symbol in our culture as something positive, peaceful and beautiful.
fight against racism – the hate of stupid idiots
but not against a sign – because its innocent


Taken from a follow tattooists page, felt it explains a lot.

OnryAndMean
09-23-2012, 7:23 AM
No one is "re-claiming" the swastika. It won't happen in any of our lifetimes. It will always be associated with the Nazi's first and foremost because of the enormity of the war and it's historical impact on modern society/culture. The symbol would have to be used to serve some agenda or purpose with a cultural and worldwide impact greater than the nazis and wwII. To think otherwise is naive and you look/sound foolish broadcasting such a naive idea.

I don't care one way or the other. They don't offend me. But you will only get one general response from the general public because the general public will always associate that symbol to nazism. Accept it or don't, that's the truth.

Hooligan80
09-23-2012, 5:44 PM
No one is "re-claiming" the swastika. It won't happen in any of our lifetimes. It will always be associated with the Nazi's first and foremost because of the enormity of the war and it's historical impact on modern society/culture. The symbol would have to be used to serve some agenda or purpose with a cultural and worldwide impact greater than the nazis and wwII. To think otherwise is naive and you look/sound foolish broadcasting such a naive idea.

I don't care one way or the other. They don't offend me. But you will only get one general response from the general public because the general public will always associate that symbol to nazism. Accept it or don't, that's the truth.

If you don't accept it, guess what, the stigma that goes with the Swastika disappears

OnryAndMean
09-23-2012, 6:47 PM
If you don't accept it, guess what, the stigma that goes with the Swastika disappears

Right, because the holocaust and WWII weren't the most significant events of the past few centuries? Ignoring the swastika's significance (even in multitudes) will not diminish it's historical impact. Again, you are foolishly naive to think such a thing. That graphic's first and only historical impact is nazism. Period. Nothing will change that until it is used for something even more significant, which is almost entirely impossible unless it is used in an even more vicious manner to perpetuate the same ideology, because it is now, and will always be, soley used to reinforce the nazi agenda.

Again, I'm not against the swasi at all. It doesn't bother me to see people advertising it because I get the appeal of the image (hence Hitler's use of it) and do not personally find a graphic offensive. But to argue it's general perception as anything other than intolerant is foolishly naive.

OnryAndMean
09-23-2012, 6:56 PM
Let me clarify in layman's terms:

I like the swasi as an image. I think it looks cool just like most people. It has an appeal that attracts people, which is why it was used by the nazi's in the first place. But it will always be associated with nazism because there will always be more people using it in that ideology than any of it's pre-WWII meanings. It's pretty obvious and simple to understand if you aren't blinded by naivety.

My girl is jewish and I have a Charles Manson painting in my living room with a large swazi in his signature. I get the appeal, and I have swazi's in my house. I just understand what the general public would think if they saw me with a swasi on my shirt/bike/whatever, because it has a connotation that cannot be reversed.

muttblbc
09-23-2012, 7:52 PM
If you don't accept it, guess what, the stigma that goes with the Swastika disappears

wow, Id love to see you explain that to my grandma. actually no i wouldnt. I suppose its pretty easy to not be offended by something or recognize the stigma attached to something that has had no effect on you. If I murdered your family in front of you and then people in your neighborhood where walking around with my face on their tshirts and then tried to explain to you that its not really a big deal and to just get over it exactly what do you think your reaction would be? would you paint a kkk cross on your bike or walk around rocking a kkk t-shirt? the points been made but im gonna repeat it. If your looking for a luck symbol pick something else otherwise your just looking to piss people off, and if thats your goal dont get all butt hurt when you succeed.

BIGHYDRO
09-23-2012, 8:16 PM
lol

OnryAndMean
09-23-2012, 8:34 PM
lol

illuminate us about your logic for the swastika on your bike? genuinely curious

BIGHYDRO
09-23-2012, 8:39 PM
I said before it's my support for coca cola.



http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x296/BIG_HYDRO/cocacola-swastika-fob_zps083292bc.jpg

But actually I'm just a racist.

Hubbard
09-23-2012, 9:03 PM
Well fuck I'll throw in my thoughts on it, I was flyin a swastika before most of you were born. First time I ever saw one was on a model of an ME109 I was workin on when I was 10? I thought it was fuckin cool lookin. Didn't have a clue about the history or the nazi's just liked it .When I got into scooters around 1975 or so most all the heavy fuckers had swastikas on something. Never axd why or cared, it was just fuckin there. I've got 'em tattoed all over my body and all my scooters have 'em machined on various parts. I'm as racist as a stone. I don't have the ability to judge a mans worth by the color of his skin or his ethnic background. Black, yellow, green ,or purple ,it's all the same to me. As far as somebody bein offended by it, thats not my concern in life . You don't like it ,get the fuck away from it. People don't get up in the morning and call me to see if their clothes are ok and in 54 years I've never had anybody ask me if whatever they had on or what they were doin offended me . I get a kick out of machining a small swazi on some out of the way part like a rear brake clevis. There is quite a bit of fancy math involved and I take pride in the fact that a 9th grade hillbilly can do it.

Gnarly
09-23-2012, 9:10 PM
Well fuck I'll throw in my thoughts on it, I was flyin a swastika before most of you were born. First time I ever saw one was on a model of an ME109 I was workin on when I was 10? I thought it was fuckin cool lookin. Didn't have a clue about the history or the nazi's just liked it .When I got into scooters around 1975 or so most all the heavy fuckers had swastikas on something. Never axd why or cared, it was just fuckin there. I've got 'em tattoed all over my body and all my scooters have 'em machined on various parts. I'm as racist as a stone. I don't have the ability to judge a mans worth by the color of his skin or his ethnic background. Black, yellow, green ,or purple ,it's all the same to me. As far as somebody bein offended by it, thats not my concern in life . You don't like it ,get the fuck away from it. People don't get up in the morning and call me to see if their clothes are ok and in 54 years I've never had anybody ask me if whatever they had on or what they were doin offended me . I get a kick out of machining a small swazi on some out of the way part like a rear brake clevis. There is quite a bit of fancy math involved and I take pride in the fact that a 9th grade hillbilly can do it.
This is pretty much the best post in the thread..
Now post pics of the Swazi clevis.