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View Full Version : Profiling in California by CHP



kzcupcake1977
04-07-2012, 3:08 AM
So my husband is tootling home in rush hour traffic on a highway in hoity toity Napa California minding his own business and keeping with the flow of traffic. He is between a mini-van and BMW on the highway doing 75 in a 65. In Cali if you actually do go the speed limit here you will get run over and hurt like the chump you are. Now bear in mind he is in "WINE COUNTRY" and he looks like a rufian on a very loud and obnoxious bike. He actually works in Vallejo but had an eye appointment over there. He gets lazard by a moto cop and pulled over. Cop says nothing about the illegal pipes, the illegal helmet, or numerous other hazards hanging or stashed on the bike. He writes him a ticket for 76 in a 65. At 76mph the $ amount jumps drastically. I tell him well you looked like a duck they had to see if you were a duck. He says it's bullshit I was going with the flow. Then it dawns on me. " Why were you just going with the flow and not splitting lanes like you always do? He says oh yeah my eyes were still dilated and I couldn't see my speedo. Sweet I said ya know that wasn't your brightest moment he says Thank you Capt Obvious. Anyway ticket was $419. He showed up to fight it and there is no traffic court. You have to pay your whole fine first which is a plea of guilt then contest it and hope exonerate you. Either you pay bail or the fine so you are guilty until proven guilty. BULLSHIT!

Allen
04-07-2012, 3:25 AM
In Los Angeles, they'll pull over 3 or 4 cars at one time and write speeding tickets for the whole group... going with the flow if the flows over the limit. There's just no practical way to write 500,000 tickets a day in Southern California. But, the one thing I always notice while I'm "cruising" along faster than all the other traffic, is there is a slow lane and PEOPLE DO USE IT... and they travel at the speed limit. Baf'oons that they are.

HRK123
04-07-2012, 5:54 AM
How exactly is that profiling?

Hooligan80
04-07-2012, 6:00 AM
It's profiling because no one else was pulled over for going over the speed limit. Napa is wine country and a snooty, ritzy area. Tattooed folk and bikers often get frowned upon.

Hooligan80
04-07-2012, 6:08 AM
By the way, I've never heard of a county in California that doesn't have a traffic court. If they issued a court date, then there has to be a traffic court.

http://www.napa.courts.ca.gov/divisions/traffic

Here's what I found on what you have to do to fight it.

Entering a Not Guilty Plea & Trial Options

If you wish to contest your ticket and have a trial, please contact the Traffic Division prior to your due date at (707) 299-1160. The due date may be found on your courtesy notice. If you did not receive a courtesy notice, you are obligated to contact the court byt the date listed at the bottom of your ticket below your signature.

Section 40519(a) of the California Vehicle Code provides that you must first post bail equal to the fine amount before a trial can be set.

Court Trial - The court trial will be presided by judicial officer or judge. The officer will be subpoenaed to the trial to present evidence. You must also be prepared to produce all evidence, documents, or witnesses to support your case.

Informal Trial (Trial by Written Declaration) - Instructions and forms for a Trial by Written Declaration may be obtained by mail or in person. You must submit the Trial by Written Declaration form with any facts or evidence you wish the court to consider. A written statement will be requested from the officer. A judicial officer or judge will review your case and you will be notified of the decision by mail.

Judicial Council Form - TR200 Instructions to Defendant (http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/tr200.pdf)
Judicial Council Form - TR205 Request for Trial by Written Declaration (http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/tr205.pdf)

Correctable Offenses

If one or more of the violations are correctable offenses, your fine may be reduced by providing proof of correction. The Proof of Correction fee is $25.00 per correction. Should you choose not to provide proof you may pay the total fine due as indicated on your courtesy notice. The Proof of Correction, along with the reduced fine/fee amount, must be received by the court before your due date.

Proof of correction cannot be provided over the phone or on the internet.

Proof of correction for equipment violations can be obtained by having a law enforcement officer sign off your copy of the citation.

Proof of insurance cannot be signed off by a law enforcement officer and must be presented to the Court.

Driver’s license and registration violations may be certified at an office of the Department of Motor Vehicles or you may present the original documentation to the Court.



If one or more of the violations are correctable offenses, your fine may be reduced by providing proof of correction. The Proof of Correction fee is $25.00 per correction. Should you choose not to provide proof you may pay the total fine due as indicated on your courtesy notice. The Proof of Correction, along with the reduced fine/fee amount, must be received by the court before your due date.

Proof of correction cannot be provided over the phone or on the internet.

Proof of correction for equipment violations can be obtained by having a law enforcement officer sign off your copy of the citation.

Proof of insurance cannot be signed off by a law enforcement officer and must be presented to the Court.

Driver’s license and registration violations may be certified at an office of the Department of Motor Vehicles or you may present the original documentation to the Court.

coldsmokejr
04-07-2012, 6:34 AM
It sucks, but when you speed, you run the risk of being pulled over, just be thankful that cop didn't pull hubby's bike down to the bones, and write tix for everything! Take your lumps, and stay the fuck outta the area!

calicruiser
04-07-2012, 7:02 AM
yep, if he was clocked over the limit he IS guilty!!! Doesn't matter what other people were doing or what he looked like! Pay the man, move on, stay outta wine country with yo hubby's bad self;)

BuddhahoodVato
04-07-2012, 7:18 AM
Good job on the research, you get caught, pay up. easy

53rigid
04-07-2012, 9:14 AM
I think it sucks, but I also think a judge just won't care if it is "not fair" he got pulled over and the beemer did not. You speed and get caught, pay the fine.

LivingCanvas
04-07-2012, 9:30 AM
Ugh. I don't know why I opened another one of your threads.

interstatejoe
04-07-2012, 9:41 AM
That sucks he got a speeding ticket, but I wouldn't really consider it profiling since he was in fact speeding. That shit happens to me all the time here in SoCal. I would consider it profiling if they pulled him over for speeding just to search him & his bike for drugs, weapons, midget hookers, & whatnot, then arrested him & impounded his bike. That happens here too, but not to me...yet.

Sent from hell using Tapatalk

JMFNC
04-07-2012, 9:51 AM
This is one of those times that you eat the ticket, since you WERE guilty because of all the other times you got away. No judge gives a shit about the other guys that got away. However, if he goes to the judge, he'll probably get his ticket reduced by a hell of a lot.

24Cycles
04-07-2012, 10:03 AM
In the world of ours its freedom until you get caught. Then you pay up and hope you get a long stretch before the next one.

As far as pay first then go to court is how they get rookies that havent been pinched. Tell him to wait 2 weeks from the ticket then call the traffic court house to see if it is in the system. If it is the next day he can go down and see the judge. Judge will ask if fine was paid he says no I cant afford it. Judge will see him and depending on action a deposit or payment plan will be worked out if any fee are taken at all. You pay before and ticket is dismissed or driving school in lou of fine then expect to wait 6 months to get your coin back.

He can plead no contest, guilty or fight it. Im not going to suggest any of them as a grown man has to make his own choices.

I can tell you if he uses the my eyes were dialated excuse he will get slammed and possibly nailed with wreckless driving by admission. Less you say better you are.

Its all in honesty and presentation. If its 1st offence usually the judge will lower the speed and fine or driving school accordingly. His main goal at this point is hope judge goes easy reduces speed and fine is lowered. We ride like assholes we got to pay the house every once in a while.

Moto cops are not profilers they are city cash cows. Ticket as many and let the judge sort it out. Moto cops will show up in court if you fight and unless you got the guy hassling you on video your going to be hard pressed to win. I know
I had a few ticket fights last year that cost me more to win then just paying the fine. I have a commercial license so blems are no bueno for me,

kzcupcake1977
04-07-2012, 10:13 AM
He actually did pay up. That was the point he was speeding he knows this. He went into the court house to speak with with a judge about getting it trailed and enter a plea of not guilty and all there was a line of clerks no judge. The clerks says you can pay your fine today and be done or admit guilt and make payments so either way you are admitting guilt. I agree he was in the wrong and he is lucky they didn't get him for anything else. I guess my confusion was in the fact that you used to be able to go into a court and see a judge and set up a trial date or plea your case. Now I guess they just want their money, it just seemed totally backward and not legally right. To the guy that said he shouldn't have read another thread......well, it's your free will choose not to next time.

Sighless
04-07-2012, 10:19 AM
He says oh yeah my eyes were still dilated and I couldn't see my speedo. Sweet I said ya know that wasn't your brightest moment he says Thank you Capt Obvious.

As much as that sucks, you gotta realize he was riding blind. He has no idea how fast he was really going and he's lucky he didn't end up sprawled out on the road wondering "WTF just happened?" I mean fight it if you like; but at some point taking time off, going to court (possibly more than once) will start to add up and you gotta add in the fact that he could have been charged for riding visually impaired, had his bike impounded, lost points on his license and who knows what else they dredge up (I mean you said there was a lot else they could have ticket hi for). You gotta weigh it out for what works best for y'all.

Detale
04-07-2012, 10:19 AM
Cupcake I lived in LA for about 5 years some time ago and one of the very first differences I noticed while driving on the highway there was that NO ONE does the speed limit there I wasn't riding a bike but I can only imagine what goes on there.

Personally I do consider it profiling or more so to be motorcycle harassment and it's not limited to CA. I'm in NYC and holy shit does it happen here and in New Jersey as well.

Last year while on my rebel I just went for a quick ride around Brooklyn which I tend to do weather permitting and i get pulled over by a cop for no apparent reason. I mean no reason other than I passed him while he was going literally 10Mph and I passed him at 20Mph, signaled and everything. I pull over and he puts his lights on. Honestly I thought he put his lights on to divert traffic and help me park, but no. He asked is that your bike? I answered yes politely, the 2 cops get out and basically harass me by trying to nitpick my bike to death.

One guy said " Oh you don't have a stop light" I turned the key and proved I did. "What about turn signals" I proved that as well. Then the 1st guy said "you can't have your license plate mounted like that (Vertical side wheel mounted). I answered sure I can it's not illegal here. The inspection place said it's fine. Needless to say I get a ticket for improper plate display for 200 fucking bucks!!!

OK so surely I'm going to fight this My court date was a few weeks ago and I was all cocky knowing I'm in the right so I get all my paperwork together with the motorcycle plate laws. All my paperwork proved that I was in the right. I even brought pics of my bike showing you could see the plate clearly at 25' from each lane. OK I'm good right? NO

The judge listens to the cops side and then sees the pic of the bike which he saw I had and say oh, no you can't have your plate like this. I tried to show him the laws I have printed and brought with me but he didn't give two fucks and said I was guilty and sent me on my way. This was bullshit to say the least. Now I'm out the $200 and missed a day of work. I just fucking paid it because I didn't want to fight it again and have this crap cost me even more money.

There is a clear bias against motorcycles anywhere you go. In NJ they have motorcycle only checkpoints that will slow traffic and just pull over bikes, mostly squids but they pull everyone over just to issue bullshit tickets, they got my brother for lane splitting and when he said to the cop he didn't, the guy gets all full metal jacket on him and screams up in his face saying "YOU CALLIN' MY PARTNER A LIAR!!!"

I look at it as the cost of doing business and just try and avoid it still sucks though

ARBY
04-07-2012, 11:02 AM
I don't know how it is in other states but here in Florida I ride almost every day, I have really loud pipes, I have high handle bars, I have an obviously non-stock, dangerous looking motorcycle that screams "this guy HAS to be into something shady" and I wear colors.

What I don't do is speed, weave in and out of traffic or do all the other things that people do to attract attention that gets them "profiled." But a couple of years ago a memo must have gone out reminding police of the handlebar height statute so I got stopped five times in two weeks but never got a ticket. Not even when I told one State Trooper that I had been running apes for over 30 years and it was never an issue until now. He said, "So then I guess you don't plan on lowering them anytime soon." I said, 'No sir." He looked over my scoot and said, "Shorter bars would kind of ruin the looks of the bike wouldn't it?" I said, 'Yes sir, I think it would.' And that was that. Thing about it was that my bars were/are taller then the law allows. So who do I blame?

When it comes to speed, going with the flow is not a defense. Each driver/rider is individually responsible for his or her vehicle and for obeying the laws. If we don't then I guess we run the risk of getting "profiled."

Skyhigh88
04-07-2012, 1:23 PM
sucks...around here luckily a guy on a bike doesnt stick out. and i only give her when i know the coast is clear...can do 80 in a 40 here pretty often if not a jackass about it...

isnt the whole point of riding to enjoy the ride...i slow lane it all the time unless is real bad...not much into freeways since ours are ripped apart at the moment...if i know im taking the bike i leave early...its not where your going...its the going

ARBY
04-07-2012, 1:40 PM
^^^^^ +1

southerniron
04-07-2012, 2:03 PM
i was driving my dropped truck in traffic on the 215 freeway in so cal , and was pulled over by a cop that was behind me , and i was wearing a red pendelton & raybans and im of the messican decent ( lol )... this cock sucker kept asking me if i had and weapons or drugs in the vehicle over and over again ,... and i asked why i got pulled over ? ... and he said my headlights were out of adjustment ,
so this cock sucker had to of been robo cop cuz let me remind you this was asshole was behind me , in traffic , 8 AM IN THE MORNING , and top it of my truck doesnt even have day time running lights !!..

no that my friends is profiling at its best

mpz
04-07-2012, 2:21 PM
The judge listens to the cops side and then sees the pic of the bike which he saw I had and say oh, no you can't have your plate like this. I tried to show him the laws I have printed and brought with me but he didn't give two fucks and said I was guilty and sent me on my way. This was bullshit to say the least. Now I'm out the $200 and missed a day of work. I just fucking paid it because I didn't want to fight it again and have this crap cost me even more money.



Man, you are so in luck. You can get a lawyer, doesn't even need to be a good one and sue in federal court and get six figures in punitive damages, cuz they don't have a leg to stand on if what you say is true. 'course the lawyer will get half, but still...

SingSing
04-07-2012, 3:06 PM
Damn THAT sucks! CaliCruiser I gotta call u out on your answer. The dudes Ol lady was just standing up for her man. People just gettin by. Arem you a Cop? ...Pobably.... Your wize ass comment to her smells like Bacon. Here in NYC the cops are ASSHOLES!! Its only the Highway Troopers who are pretty much schooled in VTL laws.....Either way sorry iot happened to your ol man, Thius ticket thing is a fuckin racket. We cal it "collars fer dollers" up here in Noo Yawk...

24Cycles
04-07-2012, 4:08 PM
He must have misunderstood or they did not understand his explenation. You have the right to a court hearing. If it is within 30 days of paying the fine he can appeal and hope to get his fine lowered by going in front of a judge. Typically the fine they collect is called bail. Its not actually the fine until you plead guilty or are found guilty.

Clerks do not have any more legal power then a 7/11 clerk. The judge and bailiffs are only ones I take their word for as gospel in court. The judge is the only one who desides your fate except when he turns that power over to the bailiff because you really screwed the pooch.


He actually did pay up. That was the point he was speeding he knows this. He went into the court house to speak with with a judge about getting it trailed and enter a plea of not guilty and all there was a line of clerks no judge. The clerks says you can pay your fine today and be done or admit guilt and make payments so either way you are admitting guilt. I agree he was in the wrong and he is lucky they didn't get him for anything else. I guess my confusion was in the fact that you used to be able to go into a court and see a judge and set up a trial date or plea your case. Now I guess they just want their money, it just seemed totally backward and not legally right. To the guy that said he shouldn't have read another thread......well, it's your free will choose not to next time.

davidabl
04-07-2012, 6:17 PM
POSting bail for anything, anytime doesn't constitute an admission of guilt. Unless you're in Myanmar or Zimbabwe or something......
And I'd bet that there are even a lot of 7-11 clerks that know it... Certainly any halfway competent court clerk knows it. Even LESS than halfway competent:-)

kzcupcake1977
04-08-2012, 8:21 AM
Unfortunately my husband knows quite a bit about "the system" as he has had time to study in the past. We just paid it and no longer ride through there. He wasn't riding like his head was on fire and his ass was catchin like usual. Like I say it's ok he was breaking the law. My sons baseball coach is CHP and after talking to him he says ya know that is profiling and it's bullshit, Im sorry. My response was well he was going faster than the posted limit but all of the traffic around him was as well. Oh well. Maybe he should take off the Motorhead patch and shave his big mutton chops and start riding a stock Goldwing. Oh hell no but it would be different in the cops eyes no doubt.

ARBY
04-08-2012, 12:20 PM
I know a lot of cops and some do suck - but not all. I know a lot of bikers and some do suck - but not all. I have been a part of both groups for many years and to condemn the many for the acts of the few quite frankly would suck. My feeling is this. If either side fucks up and breaks the law don't blame anybody but yourself when you get nailed. Besides, what ever it was you got caught for you probably got away with 20 times or more in the past so sack up and take the pain.

Peace - Out.

kzcupcake1977
04-08-2012, 12:24 PM
Well said and very true on all counts Arby.

reverendwade
04-08-2012, 12:49 PM
How bout the "guilty" chiming in, Yes I was Guilty of speeding ...just wanted my day in court. But to have that I would first have to pay The"Bail/fine" in full...and in MY opinion thats just unAmerican. Now..as far as what I'm 'NOT guilty of...An unsafe speed for the conditions of the road at that time!
I had moved over from the "slow" lane to pass a motorist who was doin less than the posted limit and found myself between 2 bat out of hell motorists, so in an attempt to keep up and not get killed while in a"pack" doin over 70 in a 60 I was the one pulled over..not the red beemer on my ass or the mini van who was pullin away from me! Thats how I believe I was profiled and the fact that I have To Pay to have my day in court is just wrong!